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Grayling: It's not my fault the May recast went wrong, I'm no rail expert
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D1009
Established Member
Agree. He's been there too long IMO, I was disappointed when the press got it wrong about him being appointed Tory party Chairman.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
It's no surprise what he says.
He knows the public will always blame the operator so he says this to enforce the view that everything is always down to and controlled by them and the government played no part.
Typical tory tactic. Find someone else to blame so they're not blaming you.
He knows the public will always blame the operator so he says this to enforce the view that everything is always down to and controlled by them and the government played no part.
Typical tory tactic. Find someone else to blame so they're not blaming you.
Busaholic
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He was down here in Penzance a few days ago, which called for a reworking of 'Pirates of Penzance'.He might bleat 'a Transport Secretary's job is not a happy one' but I notice he's still trousering the salary.
Or he suspected it would go wrong (as many did, to varying degrees*), but knew that he could blame Govia and Network Rail as required and simply say he had people to do the job, and he didn't need to be a rail expert.
My local MP has certainly milked it to his benefit, being seen by some as the saviour who forced through the timetable recast and has suggested TfL could save the day by taking over inner London services (as if this was never thought of before, or likely to happen anyway come the next franchise/contract).
If services gradually get back to normal I think people will soon forget just how bad things were, and he can claim credit for having got things back on track (sic) and hope the issues fade away. Summer recess and people going on holiday will no doubt help sweep the problems under the carpet.
* There's also a lot of 'benefit of hindsight' stuff too, which has to be taken into account.
bussnapperwm
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As much as I like Boris Johnson, he was as much a expert in foreign relations as Prince Phillip, i.e. good at insulting them. Jeremy Hunt did as much to the NHS system as a minefield to a person. They were hardly experts in their departments.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Another Gilbert and Sullivan song that features how the ability to attain the highest office with no idea of what the position entails is "When I was a Lad".
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think the one you are looking for is ..
https://www.thoughtco.com/modern-major-general-lyrics-724020
For some reason the top hit when I searched that was something about Trump...
No - people think that there should be some kind of happy medium between Sir Topham Hat and Pontius Pilate.
Yes, because the GTR shambles is just one step removed from that, clearly.
As much as I hope not, I fear that may be the case, and so due to the position of the government, he keeps his job, commuters get pittance for compensation and GTR/Northern continue to line their pockets
. Let’s hope they do change the system one way or another (I won’t dare to mention the ‘n’ word here 
)mike57
Established Member
As a manager which is what he effectively is, 'not aware' is not a defence. One of the most important things as a manager is to be aware of what is going on around you. That doesn't just mean taking the everythings OK message that no doubt he was fed, but actually taking the time and effort to know what is actually happening. That doesn't mean you micro manage but you can then intervene at the first sign of trouble. All the warning signs for the timetable recast problems were there if you looked. Someone with more brains would have called a halt, and postponed it until December or even May 2019, whilst getting on people's case to ensure that the issues are resolved.
Very true, the same could be said about recent Home Office scandals. Goodness only knows what else is under the Whitehall metaphorical carpets that we don’t know about!
This is possibly the most pertinant part!
I suspect that risks were down played by underlings who didn't want to be seen as rocking the boat.
That doesn't excuse him, the corporate culture comes from the top.
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underbank
Established Member
Because ministers are almost never qualified/experienced in the matters they are responsible for. They are mere figureheads, and always have been. They have professionally qualified/experienced civil servants working with them who are the experts, who stay in their departments regardless of who the minister is and regardless of which party is in power.
underbank
Established Member
Don't forget Gordon Brown who presided over The Treasury and HMRC for a decade without any accountancy/tax qualifications/experience. What a foul up he made of that! It transcends departments and political parties - the top jobs are never given to people with relevant qualifications/experience - they're just figure heads.
mike57
Established Member
One of the most important things as a manager is to able to get at the truth, even if those around you don't want you to. You then hang out to dry those who were feeding you rubbish(insert more suitable word...)
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The TSC session yesterday was about the East Coast franchise failure, not the timetable meltdown.
The chair did ask Grayling some initial questions about GTR (including had he considered his position), but they weren't looking for a knock-out blow.
They totally failed to question the actions of his department (as opposed to his own actions), in specifying and managing the GTR franchise.
The 5-month DfT delay in approving the phasing of the GTR timetable was not even mentioned.
Generally, any SoS is responsible for policy and funding.
His point yesterday was that neither of those was the problem, it was simply bad execution by the rail industry.
The Glaister review would uncover all (he said).
The chair did ask Grayling some initial questions about GTR (including had he considered his position), but they weren't looking for a knock-out blow.
They totally failed to question the actions of his department (as opposed to his own actions), in specifying and managing the GTR franchise.
The 5-month DfT delay in approving the phasing of the GTR timetable was not even mentioned.
Generally, any SoS is responsible for policy and funding.
His point yesterday was that neither of those was the problem, it was simply bad execution by the rail industry.
The Glaister review would uncover all (he said).
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Statistically Gordon Brown is one of the best Chancellors the country has had in the last 30 years. The recession (which actually happened after Gordon Brown had become PM and Alistair Darling was Chancellor) was no worse than the 'Black Friday' recession which happened under Norman Lamont when you take inflation in the account. The difference is John Major removed Norman Lamont from the position as a result of the recession and replaced him with Ken Clarke, who did a very good job under the circumstances. Labour lost the 2010 election meaning Darling was replaced by George Osborne, who did a very bad job under the circumstances with the Conservatives spreading misinformation to make it sound like Labour caused such a big **** up that Osborne had an impossible task.
swt_passenger
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Yeah, because all the other lot are experts in their field, and never promote idiots beyond their capability. Remind me what Prescott’s specialist expertise was again?
The East Riding of Yorkshire.
More seriously Prescott previously worked for Cunard and was a member of the National Union of Seaman when he was first elected to the House of Commons - I'm pretty sure ships come under transport.swt_passenger
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He was a ship’s steward. I’m sure that must have helped a lot with, for example with his strategic decisions on Thameslink infrastructure.The East Riding of Yorkshire.
Mikey C
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Off topic, the finances of the country were going awry before the 2008 crash. Brown's time as Chancellor can be separated into phases, the first half when he was very prudent the second when he started splashing the cash
Indeed if you believe Yes Minister, the Civil Service don't want ministers staying too long, as they might then become experts and question the advice the civil servants give them!
The point I was trying to make is if the CEO was made aware of potential major problems with delivering a project and didn't take appropriate action then their future would be on the line. If the CEO had managers reporting inaccurate information or not making him/her aware of the potential major problems then the future of those managers would be on the line.
Grayling is in a position where he could accept responsibility and resign, he could blame Network Rail (who DfT are responsible for) or he could blame the franchise holders (who have a contract awarded by DfT) or he could blame a combination of them.
Skills and knowledge are two totally different things though.
Over the last 20 years the following people have been Transport Secretary:
Grayling, Patrick McLoughlin, Justine Greening, Philip Hammond, Adonis, Geoff Hoon, Ruth Kelly, Douglas Alexander, Alastair Darling, John Spellar, Stephen Byers, John Prescott.
Now AFAIK only one of those worked in the transport industry - Prescott. And he was a pretty dismal failure as a SoS.
The same argument gets peddled about education - yet the one recent Education Secretary who had worked in the Education sector was the hapless Estelle Morris who was also regarded as a failure.
Esker-pades
Established Member
Being as good as Prescott is hardly a level one should aspire to be. That's like proudly declaring being less smelly than an over-filled bin on a summers day.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Or Geoff Hoon, Ruth Kelly, and others on both sides of the spectrum …
I'm yet to be convinced Jo Johnson knows his brief as Rail Minister (unlike his predecessor Paul Maynard, who did).
You also have to contemplate the capability of the shadow SoS should they get in.
Grayling did attempt to distance himself from the financial performance of franchise awards made before he took over (ie most of them).
I'm not sure you can really do that when it's the same government with the same broad policy.
Quite - and more to the point the escalations to him should have been coming from the TOCs and NR - if they've been reporting their bits of the project as on track for delivery and it hasn't happened then that's where the issue is.
Far more serious as an offence was that committed by Stephen Byers when he wilfully pushed Railtrack into administration - yet he didn't resign for that and instead tried to smuggle out that news whilst the 9/11 tragedy was taking place.
The first half - when he pretty much followed to the letter the spending plans which Ken Clarke had published when he was Chancellor. The credit for Britain's economic performance from 97-05 really belongs to Ken Clarke.
Mikey C
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Grayling made a mess of this. Not because he should have detail knowledge of how timetabling works, but rather because he was happy to take a hand's off approach and just find people someone to blame, rather than at least look as if he trying to do something
It was so cynical as well, the way he initially tried to pin most of the blame on the state owned Network Rail. Something not even Tory MPs believed, let alone the commuters
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...orthern-and-thameslink-rail-fiascos-1-9192884
It was so cynical as well, the way he initially tried to pin most of the blame on the state owned Network Rail. Something not even Tory MPs believed, let alone the commuters
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...orthern-and-thameslink-rail-fiascos-1-9192884
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