LUL Rolling Stock Preservation

MrGriff500 · 8 Jul 2018

Seeing as TfL has sent the final A60/62 Stock train for disposal recently, we are left to question whether LT will preserve a working heritage train again, and with the 1938 stock wearing down badly, will there be any more working preserved stock? I assume private owners are out of the equation already as TfL are worried about safety issues, A stock couldn’t have been preserved as it had Asbestos inside it, a trademark of Cravens. But what about the 1972 stock? As I believe this is a historically very important train.

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jopsuk · 8 Jul 2018

I doubt they'll preserve more working trains. They'll almost certainly preserve a driving car of each stock type. Running heritage trains will become more difficult as more complex signalling, automated driving and increased off-peak frequencies continue to roll out across the networks

trash80 · 8 Jul 2018

I guess there is no reason to get rid of the Aldwych 72 stock train any time soon.

Dstock7080 · 8 Jul 2018

jopsuk said:
I doubt they'll preserve more working trains.

There is the Q Stock project:
https://www.ltmuseumfriends.co.uk/projects/friends/project/33/q-stock

trash80 said:
I guess there is no reason to get rid of the Aldwych 72 stock train any time soon.

Will need to go when Holborn station rebuilding starts.

trash80 · 8 Jul 2018

Or just left where it is?

MrGriff500 · 8 Jul 2018

trash80 said:
I guess there is no reason to get rid of the Aldwych 72 stock train any time soon.

I really hope they keep it, as it’s in good condition and safe on the branch, however with Holborn being rebuilt and platform 5 rumoured to be demolished and cutting off Aldwych, I imagine it might have to go soon. Rumored to be when the 1973 stock is withdrawn

MrGriff500 · 8 Jul 2018

Alternatively they could cut off the branch with 3229 still there and keep it in non operational (good for costs) and keep it in the platform at Aldwych as a prop. It should be preserved as it has starred in many films. Like V for Vendetta and F&F6

MrGriff500 · 8 Jul 2018

jopsuk said:
I doubt they'll preserve more working trains.

Here’s one more thing to consider, there is the possibility that Cravens Heritage Trains may preserve a couple more, they are after all still repairing their 1962TS and the 1960TS is still working Alright. Maybe they’d preserve something. I’d say that 3229 would be good as there would be lots of spare parts floating around.

MatthewRead · 8 Jul 2018

MrGriff500 said:
Seeing as TfL has sent the final A60/62 Stock train for disposal recently, we are left to question whether LT will preserve a working heritage train again, and with the 1938 stock wearing down badly, will there be any more working preserved stock? I assume private owners are out of the equation already as TfL are worried about safety issues, A stock couldn’t have been preserved as it had Asbestos inside it, a trademark of Cravens. But what about the 1972 stock? As I believe this is a historically very important train.

It's such a shame they couldn't preserve the A stock :'(

MrGriff500 · 9 Jul 2018

MatthewRead said:
It's such a shame they couldn't preserve the A stock

It is a shame, but they had very few spares as 5110’s motor short circuited, 5234 was in a rather poor condition inside and 5112 had no parts left on it. And with very few spare parts, the cost to repair would be more expensive, leading to their demise.

MatthewRead · 9 Jul 2018

MrGriff500 said:
It is a shame, but they had very few spares as 5110’s motor short circuited, 5234 was in a rather poor condition inside and 5112 had no parts left on it. And with very few spare parts, the cost to repair would be more expensive, leading to their demise.

Compressors needed modernizing to didn't they, not to mention the limited parts of the underground where they were cleared for.

Mikey C · 9 Jul 2018

That final A stock train was partially a shell anyway, as it had been used for other purposes and hence stripped of much of its interior

MrGriff500 · 9 Jul 2018

Mikey C said:
That final A stock train was partially a shell anyway, as it had been used for other purposes and hence stripped of much of its interior

I assume you mean 5112, yes it was basically a shell, I think all trains at Acton Works are. LT had so many opportunities to preserve the trains there, 62TS that could have been restored, and the very first 1972 stock, unit 3202 in the experimental livery. Only a couple of D Stock cars, and 67TS 3041 remain I believe. Oh and a few parts of 72TS 3511

Mikey C · 9 Jul 2018

Besides since refurbishment, the interiors of all the Underground stock are all significantly different than from their original condition. Ideally a preserved A stock train would have the original luggage racks and opening windows for a start

MrGriff500 · 9 Jul 2018

Mikey C said:
Besides since refurbishment, the interiors of all the Underground stock are all significantly different than from their original condition. Ideally a preserved A stock train would have the original luggage racks and opening windows for a start

Indeed they are, though most trains did need the refurb badly. There are basically no examples of unrefurbished trains which is why I think 3229 would be a good candidate, as it’s oroginal, any idea what the condition of any of the 1962TS RATs’ interiors are like? If they were alright, maybe one of them would be ideal as the LTM has not got a 59/62TS car

Mikey C · 9 Jul 2018

MrGriff500 said:
Indeed they are, though most trains did need the refurb badly. There are basically no examples of unrefurbished trains which is why I think 3229 would be a good candidate, as it’s oroginal, any idea what the condition of any of the 1962TS RATs’ interiors are like? If they were alright, maybe one of them would be ideal as the LTM has not got a 59/62TS car

The 59/62 stock aren't that different inside from the 38 stock though

An unrefurbished 67/72 stock unit like 3229 would be historically more interesting to preserve, as showing a clear jump in design from the 38 stock (with LTM not having the space or willingness to preserve many units)

Dstock7080 · 9 Jul 2018

Mikey C said:
An unrefurbished 67/72 stock unit like 3229 would be historically more interesting to preserve, as showing a clear jump in design from the 38 stock (with LTM not having the space or willingness to preserve many units)

The LTM already have unrefurbished 1972 mkI DM car 3530.

Journeyman · 13 Jul 2018

jopsuk said:
I doubt they'll preserve more working trains. They'll almost certainly preserve a driving car of each stock type. Running heritage trains will become more difficult as more complex signalling, automated driving and increased off-peak frequencies continue to roll out across the networks

I think we've been lucky in the past, as we have been with things like the 2-BIL and class 306 on the main line, but LU have too many other things to worry about at the moment, and a rapidly dwindling supply of cash. ATO/ATP is certainly the biggest problem, and will be the death knell of anything old running.

MrGriff500 · 14 Jul 2018

Dstock7080 said:
The LTM already have unrefurbished 1972 mkI DM car 3530.

Valid point, the thing is, 3229 is also operational and is still in a good condition inside, and would be good to preserve as I don’t think LT have a preserved operational silver train.

With an abundance of 72/67 parts, the train should be able to last a while, it’s only hinderance is signalling/ato compatibility. One question that could also lead to a preservation of this, did the unrefurbisbed 1967 stock operate to Ongar, or was it just the Chigwell loop (Hainault to Woodford)?

bramling · 14 Jul 2018

MrGriff500 said:
Valid point, the thing is, 3229 is also operational and is still in a good condition inside, and would be good to preserve as I don’t think LT have a preserved operational silver train.

With an abundance of 72/67 parts, the train should be able to last a while, it’s only hinderance is signalling/ato compatibility. One question that could also lead to a preservation of this, did the unrefurbisbed 1967 stock operate to Ongar, or was it just the Chigwell loop (Hainault to Woodford)?

Never went to Ongar.

Mikey C · 15 Jul 2018

MrGriff500 said:
Valid point, the thing is, 3229 is also operational and is still in a good condition inside, and would be good to preserve as I don’t think LT have a preserved operational silver train.

With an abundance of 72/67 parts, the train should be able to last a while, it’s only hinderance is signalling/ato compatibility. One question that could also lead to a preservation of this, did the unrefurbisbed 1967 stock operate to Ongar, or was it just the Chigwell loop (Hainault to Woodford)?

Those services on the Central Line weren't operated by 1967 stock, but rather by the prototype 1960, one of which is is preservation

http://cravensheritagetrains.org/

MrGriff500 · 16 Jul 2018

Ah, I wasn’t sure whether it went to Ongar or not, must’ve been no ATO there. Anyway, what about private preservation? The A Stock contained Asbestos I think meaning it couldn’t be preserved, but what about the 1972TS as that, as far as I’m aware has none? Then again it would also take a lot of work with TfL and also a willing owner

cav1975 · 25 Jul 2018

Is the preserved Cravens unit still operable? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while.

class387 · 25 Jul 2018

cav1975 said:
Is the preserved Cravens unit still operable? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while.

I know it failed spectacularly coming back from its last trip out on the Epping Ongar Railway, heard nothing since.

Dstock7080 · 25 Jul 2018

class387 said:
I know it failed spectacularly coming back from its last trip out on the Epping Ongar Railway, heard nothing since.

1 October 2014 Tottenham Court Road WB.
I believe a ban on movements imposed by LU is still in place.

cav1975 · 25 Jul 2018

What happened?

As that is nearly four years ago you would have thought that any lessons learned would have been applied by now rather than just a knee jerk reaction.

Journeyman · 25 Jul 2018

cav1975 said:
What happened?

As that is nearly four years ago you would have thought that any lessons learned would have been applied by now rather than just a knee jerk reaction.

I can assure you that LU have had far, far bigger things to worry about over the last four years than whether to allow a privately-owned preserved train onto their extremely busy railway.

Met Driver · 25 Jul 2018

The CHT-owned 60TS has been robbed to keep the TRV pilot cars going. Supposedly the donor parts will be replaced with spent parts from the TRV (said parts will be refurbished first - allegedly). No suggestions it will ever run on LU infrastructure again though.

bramling · 27 Jul 2018

class387 said:
I know it failed spectacularly coming back from its last trip out on the Epping Ongar Railway, heard nothing since.

It didn’t fail as such. From what I understand there were a few messups with the planning for the move, which resulted in what could be described as a mismatch between the train and the infrastructure. It is a little strange however when one considers the train had previously been through the Central Line tube tunnels various times since preservation, without incident.

MrGriff500 · 29 Jul 2018

Where’s the 60TS kept now? Ruislip or Northfields depot? And also, is CHTL still working on their 62TS at Hainault or has it been abandoned?

I think it’s quite wrong that LUL are taking parts from a train that they no longer own for their own fossilized TRT, wasn’t the much newer Asset Inspection Train meant to replace the TRT and is the AIT even still used? I havent seen it around in ages, they should use it more as there are much more 72TS spare parts and 60TS parts floating about.

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