Lancashire Ray Ranger validity question

super_sprinter · 27 Jul 2018

Hi all

On Wednesday I used a Lancashire Day Ranger for a few journeys around the NW: Man Vic – Southport; Southport – Crosby; Crosby – Liverpool Central and then back to Manchester Piccadilly.

Unfortunately, due to the late running of the train from Central to Liverpool South Parkway, I missed the connection for the 1921 service to Piccadilly. The next train on the information screen was the 2003 to Nottingham, which called at both Oxford Road and Piccadilly. However, I really wasn't sure if my ranger was valid on that service. When I consulted this website http://www.railrover.org/pages/lancashire-day-ranger.html, which I found really useful, I couldn't see that Widnes or Warrington were mentioned as valid stations, and the Nottingham service was going via those stations.

I asked at the ticket office, but the staff member there had no idea about the validity and didn't offer to find out, but told me to ask on the platform. However, there weren't any staff there, so I bought a South Parkway – Manchester Stations ticket just in case.

Does anyone know if the Ranger was indeed valid on the Nottingham service? Thanks in advance.

ETA: Sorry, the title should say Day Ranger, not Ray Ranger! :lol:

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Merseysider · 27 Jul 2018

Lancashire Day Ranger no, Cheshire Day Ranger yes.

super_sprinter · 27 Jul 2018

Thanks.

So, would travel on the 2021 to Piccadilly have been valid?

Or, seeing that Lime Street is still out of play, would the correct way have been the bus replacement to Huyton and then train to Victoria?

30907 · 27 Jul 2018

super_sprinter said:
Thanks.

So, would travel on the 2021 to Piccadilly have been valid?

Or, seeing that Lime Street is still out of play, would the correct way have been the bus replacement to Huyton and then train to Victoria?

No and Yes respectively. The map quite clearly shows that only the route via Earlestown is valid. Rather odd, but IIRC Warrington is in Cheshire!

gray1404 · 28 Jul 2018

Its a shame you didn't have a word with the guard on the EMT service as they might have let you on. I would contact Merseyrail with copies of your tickets and explain that the delay to their train caused you to miss your connection and arrive at your destination over 30 minutes late. Although I would not expect them to refund your ticket (as arbuably you didn't need to purchase a second ticket and could have used an alternative service), they should compensate you for the delay. I would also stress that fact their ticket office staff had no idea of the validity of a ticket that is valid at their station and this is unacceptable.

scrapy · 28 Jul 2018

gray1404 said:
Its a shame you didn't have a word with the guard on the EMT service as they might have let you on. I would contact Merseyrail with copies of your tickets and explain that the delay to their train caused you to miss your connection and arrive at your destination over 30 minutes late. Although I would not expect them to refund your ticket (as arbuably you didn't need to purchase a second ticket and could have used an alternative service), they should compensate you for the delay. I would also stress that fact their ticket office staff had no idea of the validity of a ticket that is valid at their station and this is unacceptable.

According to NRE the Lancashire day ranger isn't valid between Liverpool Central and South Parkway and isn't valid on any other routes from there either and I am not aware of any easements to allow it to be used that way during the current blockade. I am not sure what compensation you can claim if you don't have a valid ticket to start with.

dave87016 · 28 Jul 2018

The Lancashire day ranger is actually valid at both Warrington Central and Widnes

Olympian · 28 Jul 2018

dave87016 said:
The Lancashire day ranger is actually valid at both Warrington Central and Widnes

Not according to either the GB Rail Rover Guide link provided in the OP or the NRE map www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/promotions/Lancashire%20Day%20Ranger%20validity%20map.pdf

Merseysider · 28 Jul 2018

dave87016 said:
The Lancashire day ranger is actually valid at both Warrington Central and Widnes

No it isn’t.

dave87016 · 28 Jul 2018

I frequently get a Lancashire Day Ranger and I messaged TPE EMT and Northern and they all said it’s valid to those station

And I have never had it questioned by the guards despite using it on the Man Picc - Liverpool Lime Street trains via Warrington central

Merseysider · 28 Jul 2018

dave87016 said:
I frequently get a Lancashire Day Ranger and I messaged TPE EMT and Northern and they all said it’s valid to those station

And I have never had it questioned by the guards despite using it on the Man Picc - Liverpool Lime Street trains via Warrington central

Doesn’t mean it’s valid.

dave87016 · 28 Jul 2018

Merseysider said:
Doesn’t mean it’s valid.

Maybe not on the maps but if the TOCS that serve that part of the journey say it’s valid and the guards don’t have a problem with it then that’s good enough for me

totally · 28 Jul 2018

I asked this question of an EMT guard whilst at Lime Street last year, as again the ticket office did not know and did not seem to be able to find out. The guard was clear that the ticket was not valid via Warrington Central. Actually when I looked at a map when I got hold of a leaflet it is clear he was correct. Potentially confusing to users though as of course no map is issued with the ticket.

Lytham Local · 29 Jul 2018

It would appear that station staff training on Rangers could do with being refreshed. I was told last year by VT station staff at Wigan North Western that my Lancashire Day Ranger wasn't valid as that station is considered to be part of Greater Manchester! Then again, the gadget that the staff used to validate my Ranger didn't work on my ticket either.

dave87016 · 29 Jul 2018

A Lancashire day ranger is valid to Liverpool ( Merseyside ) Hebden Bridge and Todmorden ( West Yorkshire )

super_sprinter · 29 Jul 2018

30907 said:
No and Yes respectively. The map quite clearly shows that only the route via Earlestown is valid. Rather odd, but IIRC Warrington is in Cheshire!

I think I just had it in mind that S Parkway was acting as the replacement for Lime Street, so I didn't hesitate to go there. It was only on missing the 1921 service that I saw the calling points for the 2003 and thought, "Oh, those stations aren't on the map."

On changing platforms at South Parkway I had been waved through with the Ranger ticket. After checking the map on the platform, I then went back to the main part of the station and asked at the ticket office before getting the ticket to Manchester.

gray1404 said:
Its a shame you didn't have a word with the guard on the EMT service as they might have let you on. I would contact Merseyrail with copies of your tickets and explain that the delay to their train caused you to miss your connection and arrive at your destination over 30 minutes late. Although I would not expect them to refund your ticket (as arbuably you didn't need to purchase a second ticket and could have used an alternative service), they should compensate you for the delay. I would also stress that fact their ticket office staff had no idea of the validity of a ticket that is valid at their station and this is unacceptable.

Yes, it was slightly frustrating that nobody knew the answer. With hindsight, I shouldn't have travelled to S Parkway in the first place.

scrapy said:
According to NRE the Lancashire day ranger isn't valid between Liverpool Central and South Parkway and isn't valid on any other routes from there either and I am not aware of any easements to allow it to be used that way during the current blockade. I am not sure what compensation you can claim if you don't have a valid ticket to start with.

I think I just had a blank and thought that Lime Street was totally out. I didn't realise until after that there was a bus connection to Huyton that would have allowed me to travel via the valid route to Victoria.

totally said:
I asked this question of an EMT guard whilst at Lime Street last year, as again the ticket office did not know and did not seem to be able to find out. The guard was clear that the ticket was not valid via Warrington Central. Actually when I looked at a map when I got hold of a leaflet it is clear he was correct. Potentially confusing to users though as of course no map is issued with the ticket.

It might be ideal to issue a map with the ticket, yes.

Lytham Local said:
It would appear that station staff training on Rangers could do with being refreshed. I was told last year by VT station staff at Wigan North Western that my Lancashire Day Ranger wasn't valid as that station is considered to be part of Greater Manchester! Then again, the gadget that the staff used to validate my Ranger didn't work on my ticket either.

Yes. The staff member at S Parkway told me that he thought it was possibly only valid in the Liverpool area, as Manchester is not in Lancashire, but I told him that I had bought the ticket with no issue in order to travel from Man Vic in the morning. After telling me to ask on the platform, he then said that if it wasn't valid on the Nottingham service, then I could take the 2021.

dave87016 · 29 Jul 2018

I remember in the early 90’s when they were much easier and cheaper they used to call them North West Day rangers they were split into zones zones 1-4 or 1-6 I can’t remember exactly if there was 4 or 6 but the one that covered them all was valid to Wrexham bidston etc aswell

lyndhurst25 · 29 Jul 2018

Both Liverpool and Manchester were in the pre-1974 version of Lancashire (so were places like Barrow in Furness, but let's not go there!). Both cities are included in the validity areas of Lancashire and Cheshire Day Rangers, with direct travel between them being permitted. For travel between the two cities, on just about every other rail ticket, the routes via Warrington and via Earlestown are treated as being interavailable. It seems a bit of an silly omission that travel via Warrington is barred using the Lancashire Day Ranger and you can understand the resulting confusion amongst staff and passengers.

sheff1 · 29 Jul 2018

dave87016 said:
A Lancashire day ranger is valid to Liverpool ( Merseyside ) Hebden Bridge and Todmorden ( West Yorkshire )

Which has zero bearing on whether it is valid at Liverpool South Parkway or Warrington - which it is not.

lyndhurst25 · 29 Jul 2018

I think that the point being made is simply that the ticket isn't strictly bound by current or historical county boundaries and that looking at the map is the only way to be sure.

dave87016 · 29 Jul 2018

lyndhurst25 said:
I think that the point being made is simply that the ticket isn't strictly bound by current or historical county boundaries and that looking at the map is the only way to be sure.

That was indeed my point as someone mentioned before I did about it's validity outside of Lancashire and I was just providing further examples

LNW-GW Joint · 30 Jul 2018

I've used that ticket without thinking on the CLC route (just climbed on the first Liverpool train at Oxford Road) and was checked and duly ignored by the EMT guard.
It can't possibly make any difference to the operators which route you take.
The Cheshire version is valid via both routes.
I've also had Liverpool guards claim a Cheshire Day Ranger is not valid via Earlestown "because it's not in Cheshire".
The L&M route does pass through new Cheshire (twice), but there are no stations.
It's also valid in Shotton (Wales), Stoke on Trent (Staffs), Wem (Shropshire) and Glossop (Derbyshire).
Another issue with the these rangers is that neither is valid Warrington-Wigan, probably because the only services are on VT.

Merseysider · 30 Jul 2018

LNW-GW Joint said:
Another issue with the these rangers is that neither is valid Warrington-Wigan, probably because the only services are on VT.

Yup, and we all know Virgin’s attitude to passengers not on 1st or Anytime tickets :lol:

The rovers are still excellent value, though.

I think we’re quite lucky in Merseyside to have so many day tickets/rovers to choose from

30907 · 30 Jul 2018

LNW-GW Joint said:
Another issue with the these rangers is that neither is valid Warrington-Wigan, probably because the only services are on VT.

As both tickets are valid on VT, a more likely explanation is that the Lancs isn't valid at WBQ as it's in Cheshire. It's not valid to Earlestown on ATW/NR either...

AM9 · 30 Jul 2018

LNW-GW Joint said:
I've used that ticket without thinking on the CLC route (just climbed on the first Liverpool train at Oxford Road) and was checked and duly ignored by the EMT guard.
It can't possibly make any difference to the operators which route you take.
The Cheshire version is valid via both routes.
I've also had Liverpool guards claim a Cheshire Day Ranger is not valid via Earlestown "because it's not in Cheshire".
The L&M route does pass through new Cheshire (twice), but there are no stations.
It's also valid in Shotton (Wales), Stoke on Trent (Staffs), Wem (Shropshire) and Glossop (Derbyshire).
Another issue with the these rangers is that neither is valid Warrington-Wigan, probably because the only services are on VT.

About 3 years ago, I just missed a Chat Moss train back to Piccadilly to catch a VT back to London. I asked at Lime Street ticket office and travel centre whether the Lancashire Ranger was valid via Warrington and the both assured me that it was. So I boarded an EM train. The guard went through looking at tickets so I just laid my Railcard and the Ranger ticket on the table. He glanced at it and continued past. I was prepared to buy a single if necessary.

super_sprinter · 31 Jul 2018

LNW-GW Joint said:
I've used that ticket without thinking on the CLC route (just climbed on the first Liverpool train at Oxford Road) and was checked and duly ignored by the EMT guard.
It can't possibly make any difference to the operators which route you take.
The Cheshire version is valid via both routes.
I've also had Liverpool guards claim a Cheshire Day Ranger is not valid via Earlestown "because it's not in Cheshire".
The L&M route does pass through new Cheshire (twice), but there are no stations.
It's also valid in Shotton (Wales), Stoke on Trent (Staffs), Wem (Shropshire) and Glossop (Derbyshire).
Another issue with the these rangers is that neither is valid Warrington-Wigan, probably because the only services are on VT.

AM9 said:
About 3 years ago, I just missed a Chat Moss train back to Piccadilly to catch a VT back to London. I asked at Lime Street ticket office and travel centre whether the Lancashire Ranger was valid via Warrington and the both assured me that it was. So I boarded an EM train. The guard went through looking at tickets so I just laid my Railcard and the Ranger ticket on the table. He glanced at it and continued past. I was prepared to buy a single if necessary.

It seems that, from these examples, that a number of rail staff seem happy to let the Lancashire Ranger be used on the invalid route.

A bit strange that the Cheshire ranger allows travel via both routes, though. Perhaps it could be changed so that both tickets allow travel by the two different areas.

All in all I was really pleased to know about this ticket and use it. It was exactly what I needed and it was good value (except the extra for the single from Parkway – Piccadilly, but that was my fault for not consulting the map beforehand). If Lime St hadn't been out then this wouldn't have been an issue. I've always travelled Lime St - Victoria in the past and will daresay do so again.

Lancashire Ray Ranger validity question

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