Now I often read the Northern Resist Facebook page. One of the articles was about a train that was forced to be cancelled as the train left a station without the guard. Now I assume it wasnt a DOO train (I dont think Northern have any). How the heck was this possible? Who was the guard was it Brian Harvey formerly of E17? How the heck did they manage that? Or is it just an urban myth?
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Setting off without a guard
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Bromley boy
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It’s not unknown for this to happen.
At my TOC (not northern) guarded trains are dispatched by CD/RA or bat and flag at some locations. The driver has no way of knowing whether the guard is aboard until reaching a location where guard dispatch is required (upon realising the guard was absent, the train would usually be terminated and proceed ECS to a depot, or a point where a relief guard was available).
Another possibility is that the driver simply closed the doors and took off without being dispatched, leaving the guard on the platform.
Northern have 150/1s with slam door crew doors, it’s possible the guard closed all the passenger doors and the driver took off when they saw they had interlock. It’s also possible but less likely the guard locked themselves out with normal power operates doors and the driver took off with full interlock rather than waiting for 2 on the bell.
There was a story I heard from a friend (so no idea if it actually happened or not...) of a train at (I think it was) Clapham Junction, in very hot weather with the cab windows wide open. The driver heard two on the bell and promptly set off - leaving the guard behind on the platform! The two on the bell had come from the train on the adjacent track, which also had its windows open!
There's also the story (it was a news article posted to this form a couple of years back) of someone who tried to dispatch a train and lock the guard out because they didn't have a valid ticket. I think the driver cottoned onto something being wrong though and didn't move.
There's also the story (it was a news article posted to this form a couple of years back) of someone who tried to dispatch a train and lock the guard out because they didn't have a valid ticket. I think the driver cottoned onto something being wrong though and didn't move.
atraindriver
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Bromley boy
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Apologies, I was forgetting guards rather than drivers close the doors at northern.
bussnapperwm
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Sounds like something that G4S at Manchester would be likely to have done when they did Northerns barriers
Bromley boy
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Do you have a link (not doubting you, but it’s a story I’d like to read!)?
There's a story (I don't know if it's true) that RPIs who were contracted to work by First North Western stopped someone in Arriva uniform going to platforms 13/14 at Piccadilly soon after Arriva took over Northern Spirit with the RPI saying something like "Beat it bus driver you don't get on without a ticket." The man in Arriva uniform walked off, then a bit later a TPE train didn't leave because there wasn't a guard on board.
atraindriver
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Eric
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This happened at New Pudsey earlier on this year with a class 150 slam door unit.
One of the doors hadn't closed properly, so the guard went down the platform to push the door closed.
Interlock obtained and off the train went with the guard running back to the cab to get back on.
One of the doors hadn't closed properly, so the guard went down the platform to push the door closed.
Interlock obtained and off the train went with the guard running back to the cab to get back on.
Bletchleyite
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I can completely believe that given that the gross incompetence of Manchester area contracted RPI staff which has been the case for years.
MDB1images
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A number of discussions took place with the (then) new managers of FNW employed revenue staff about potential for disagreements around allowing acess but as all Northern Spirit crews had dockets(diagrams)to show if challenged it was never an issue for the few weeks before staff recognised each other.
Jonfun
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Aye, plenty of ways a Guard can go missing en route.
Driver hearing the bells off another unit is quite a common one.
Driver getting interlock and going without waiting for the buzzer.
A door malfunctions after the Guard has given two, so they get off the train to kick it shut, driver gets interlock, sends two back and goes.
No bell/buzzer working so dispatch is being done on bat and flags, the platform staff give the flag to the driver before the Guard gives it to them.
Platform staff misidentify the Guard and think he's given them the tip so illuminate the RA.
Passenger has access to an active door control panel and gives the bells without the Guard being aware.
Guard falls out of an open door en route, or in one case, jumped.
Guard (or indeed Driver) gets on the wrong train, or it gets diverted so whilst they are on board they don't sign the route that that train is actually going.
If you can think that it *could* happen, it probably has.
Driver hearing the bells off another unit is quite a common one.
Driver getting interlock and going without waiting for the buzzer.
A door malfunctions after the Guard has given two, so they get off the train to kick it shut, driver gets interlock, sends two back and goes.
No bell/buzzer working so dispatch is being done on bat and flags, the platform staff give the flag to the driver before the Guard gives it to them.
Platform staff misidentify the Guard and think he's given them the tip so illuminate the RA.
Passenger has access to an active door control panel and gives the bells without the Guard being aware.
Guard falls out of an open door en route, or in one case, jumped.
Guard (or indeed Driver) gets on the wrong train, or it gets diverted so whilst they are on board they don't sign the route that that train is actually going.
If you can think that it *could* happen, it probably has.
ChiefPlanner
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Some fine member of the Aylesbury drinking community pre 1995 , gave the right away to a late evening Marylebone DMU - only to decant at Stoke Mandeville. Guard caught up the train in a hastily summoned taxi
Driver patiently awaiting in the cab.....then walked back to find "no guard" for a few moments.
Driver patiently awaiting in the cab.....then walked back to find "no guard" for a few moments.
185143
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I know of a few Northern staff who've got on Scottish TPE services at Piccadilly wanting Occy Road...
I suspect there's been cases of TPE trains leaving Man Vic late as the crew's inbound train has diverted via Guide Bridge straight into Piccadilly too.
Galvanize
Member
I remember it happened on Southeastern a few years ago. Trains in the London area are dispatched as if they are DOO (so in other words, if there is a Guard working it, they don't do the doors). Swanley, Otford or Sevenoaks generally being the boundary of the DOO area depending on the train's destination!
Anyway, one day a peak hour Mainliner was dispatched from one of the London terminals, CD and RA to the driver as per the dispatch plans. Except nobody realised the Guard was late PASS'ing up, so the train went out without the guard onboard, they turned up moments later to see that their train had gone.
After several frantic phone calls, it appeared that train in question had to terminate at the last station in the DOO area, turf all the passengers off (it was an 8 car 375), and then run ECS to its destination as there was no way the guard could get there to work the train, and it would cause a major delay if it sat there waiting for him. Everyone piled onto the train I was travelling on, which was a 4 car Class 465/9. A rather cosy experience for those onboard!
Anyway, one day a peak hour Mainliner was dispatched from one of the London terminals, CD and RA to the driver as per the dispatch plans. Except nobody realised the Guard was late PASS'ing up, so the train went out without the guard onboard, they turned up moments later to see that their train had gone.
After several frantic phone calls, it appeared that train in question had to terminate at the last station in the DOO area, turf all the passengers off (it was an 8 car 375), and then run ECS to its destination as there was no way the guard could get there to work the train, and it would cause a major delay if it sat there waiting for him. Everyone piled onto the train I was travelling on, which was a 4 car Class 465/9. A rather cosy experience for those onboard!
Jensen
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Back in the 1980's there was a Euston Leighton Buzzard Northampton loco hauled service departing 17.24 I believe (may be wrong) that when stopping at Leighton Buzzard had the back two or three coaches off the platform. It was not uncommon for passengers to open doors and climb down into the wide way and walk up the platform ramp. I know because I did it. One evening, there was a particularly large throng on the platform and down into the wide way. The guard was in the wideway attempting to hurry passengers up onto the platform. The slam doors were shut and the guard, by now on the platform, raised his green flag to the driver, toot on the horn and the train moved off. Platform cleared leaving on guard on the platform as he had been unable to get back to his BSK and away it went to Northampton. Happy days.
Galvanize
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I've seen the opposite happen a couple of years back on an Intercity operator that can be found across the UK...
Train arrived at a major Interchange, where the Train Manager was to be relieved. Anyway, it arrived full of Football Fans going to an away game in this location, and the footy fans had left a huge mess inside the train which smelt like a Brewery and not a nice one! So as it was booked to sit here for a little while, and the relief TM hadn't made an appearance yet, the TM who worked it in, decided to help the cleaners clear up the mess left by the Football Fans.
A few minutes later, the relief TM had appeared, made a quick pre-departure announcement and prepared for departure from this station. Could hear whistles being blown on the platform, and the doors beginning to close. Suddenly there was this announcement...it was made by the TM who worked it in
"EXCUSE ME...TRAIN MANAGER, PLEASE DO NOT DISPATCH THE TRAIN, THE PREVIOUS TM IS STILL ONBOARD. PLEASE DO NOT DISPATCH THE TRAIN, I NEED TO GET OFF!!!"
To no avail. I could hear "2" on the buzzer, and the driver's reply...and sure enough, we started to move! The other TM was absolutely fuming...he'd not only been locked inside the train, he'd left his gear on the bench on the platform, and...he had to be taken at least 20 miles beyond where he was getting off!
Train arrived at a major Interchange, where the Train Manager was to be relieved. Anyway, it arrived full of Football Fans going to an away game in this location, and the footy fans had left a huge mess inside the train which smelt like a Brewery and not a nice one! So as it was booked to sit here for a little while, and the relief TM hadn't made an appearance yet, the TM who worked it in, decided to help the cleaners clear up the mess left by the Football Fans.
A few minutes later, the relief TM had appeared, made a quick pre-departure announcement and prepared for departure from this station. Could hear whistles being blown on the platform, and the doors beginning to close. Suddenly there was this announcement...it was made by the TM who worked it in
"EXCUSE ME...TRAIN MANAGER, PLEASE DO NOT DISPATCH THE TRAIN, THE PREVIOUS TM IS STILL ONBOARD. PLEASE DO NOT DISPATCH THE TRAIN, I NEED TO GET OFF!!!"
To no avail. I could hear "2" on the buzzer, and the driver's reply...and sure enough, we started to move! The other TM was absolutely fuming...he'd not only been locked inside the train, he'd left his gear on the bench on the platform, and...he had to be taken at least 20 miles beyond where he was getting off!
Spartacus
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There was another one in current Northern land a few years ago where on a curved platform the guard stepped away from the rear doors to check up the train when someone who was obviously a pretty observant person shut the doors and gave two on the buzzer.
I've heard of a few occasions where there's been a member of traincrew caught out doing an assist on the platform and been left behind, similar with station staff ending up on a train that's departed while doing an assist.
I've heard of a few occasions where there's been a member of traincrew caught out doing an assist on the platform and been left behind, similar with station staff ending up on a train that's departed while doing an assist.
Bertie the bus
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There was this one at Dundee in 2011:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16265091
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16265091
Bromley boy
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Some of our units lack toilets and it’s common practice for drivers to jump onto mainline units at adjacent platform when changing ends to use the facilities.
More than once this has resulted in drivers coming out of the loo to realise the train has departed with them still aboard...
Bromley boy
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Many thanks - unbelievable!
philthetube
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and of course there have been occasions on the underground where trains have left without their driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pdeaves
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Not doubting the story, but... could the 'wrong' TM not have buzzed a 'stop' signal to the driver? Or would the paperwork/explanations arising from that have been worse than that arising from taking an unintended detour?
185143
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I've done that...
Merthyr Imp
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I can't lay my hands on the book at the moment but there was a Thomas the Tank Engine story when - if I remember right - after the guard blew his whistle and waved his green flag he tripped over an old lady's umbrella and the train pulled out of the station at the junction before he could climb on board. Annie and Clarabel were most upset at having lost their guard and tried to tell Thomas but he wouldn't listen. However, the train was halted at a signal (the signalman may have been alerted, I forget) and they then realised the guard was missing. However, he was soon seen running along the track to catch the train up and after a drink of water for him to cool down the train was able to continue.
Even here the regulars will step onto the platform to allow the driver on.....or the train will just sit there!
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