CrossCountry Switcharound

leomartin125 · 3 Aug 2018

Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but recently CrossCountry have had a massive switcharound with their services involving the following core changes:

South West England to Scotland services will cease to operate bar one per day.

Southern England to Scotland services to start, with over 8 trains a day between Reading & Edinburgh compared to the one per day previously.

Why has this occurred? This ultimately means that no HST's can operate on the ultra long distance services as they could before, simply because they aren't cleared to operate down the Banbury line (or are they?). I think it's appauling that now the ULR services will at most, have 5 coaches, and ALL now be Voyagers. If CrossCountry want to lose the franchise, they are doing a damn good job about it.

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ValleyLines142 · 3 Aug 2018

leomartin125 said:
Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but recently CrossCountry have had a massive switcharound with their services involving the following core changes:

South West England to Scotland services will cease to operate bar one per day.

Southern England to Scotland services to start, with over 8 trains a day between Reading & Edinburgh compared to the one per day previously.

Why has this occurred? This ultimately means that no HST's can operate on the ultra long distance services as they could before, simply because they aren't cleared to operate down the Banbury line (or are they?). I think it's appauling that now the ULR services will at most, have 5 coaches, and ALL now be Voyagers. If CrossCountry want to lose the franchise, they are doing a damn good job about it.

Its only because of the highly-advertised Derby works. Have a look on line.

Iskra · 3 Aug 2018

It's related to engineering work at Derby and not a permanent change.

cactustwirly · 3 Aug 2018

leomartin125 said:
Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but recently CrossCountry have had a massive switcharound with their services involving the following core changes:

South West England to Scotland services will cease to operate bar one per day.

Southern England to Scotland services to start, with over 8 trains a day between Reading & Edinburgh compared to the one per day previously.

Why has this occurred? This ultimately means that no HST's can operate on the ultra long distance services as they could before, simply because they aren't cleared to operate down the Banbury line (or are they?). I think it's appauling that now the ULR services will at most, have 5 coaches, and ALL now be Voyagers. If CrossCountry want to lose the franchise, they are doing a damn good job about it.

The HST are still operating, but via Doncaster to the SW.
It's because of the Derby works adding 30 minutes to the journey time, so they have to swap paths south of Birmingham

leomartin125 · 3 Aug 2018

DanTrainMan185 said:
Its only because of the highly-advertised Derby works. Have a look on line.

What's the issue? Both trains would go via Birmingham at some point, so why can't they just run as normally (Plymouth to Aberdeen etc...) but avoid Derby?

ValleyLines142 · 3 Aug 2018

leomartin125 said:
What's the issue? Both trains would go via Birmingham at some point, so why can't they just run as normally (Plymouth to Aberdeen etc...) but avoid Derby?

Because they're having to divert, so they're picking up the path half an hour later after Birmingham i believe (so a service from Plymouth is then picking up a Newcastle via Doncaster service that would normally be ex-Reading and so on). The daily 0820 Voyager from Aberdeen is currently going to Guildford. There's also a couple of Glasgow to Southamptons.

leomartin125 · 3 Aug 2018

DanTrainMan185 said:
Because they're having to divert, so they're picking up the path half an hour later after Birmingham i believe (so a service from Plymouth is then picking up a Newcastle via Doncaster service that would normally be ex-Reading and so on). The daily 0820 Voyager from Aberdeen is currently going to Guildford. There's also a couple of Glasgow to Southamptons.

Yeah loads of extra's like Glasgow trains starting at Reading and Southampton to Aberdeen etc... I just didn't understand it fully, but that clarifies it. Many thanks to all.

tbtc · 3 Aug 2018

DanTrainMan185 said:
Because they're having to divert, so they're picking up the path half an hour later after Birmingham i believe (so a service from Plymouth is then picking up a Newcastle via Doncaster service that would normally be ex-Reading and so on)

That's it.

XC have no room for flexibility in their timetable - they can't run through Leeds fifteen minutes later than the "normal" path - they are hemmed in by other TOCs so there's no room to delay services just slightly. So when disruption happens (as it is at Derby), the only realistic option is to delay services by half an hour (e.g. some very long dwells at Burton) so that they pick up the "next" XC path - so the quieter route via Doncaster gets the longer trains (e.g. HSTs) and the busier route via Leeds gets the quieter ones, but that's the price they have to pay (if they want to keep running HSTs to Bristol. Plymouth etc).

(This is why I'd chop the XC network up a little, as it's currently too inflexible to cope with disruption but that's a topic for the various "fantasy" threads on here.)

1e10 · 3 Aug 2018

During the works the following diagrams are swapped

1307 Edinburgh - Reading 2009
1436 Newcastle - Plymouth 2139

Previously on a Friday the Plymouth trained was a double Voyager unit throughout, but during the Derby works it's the Reading service that enjoys 8+ carriages. Disappointment for me.

sufian123 · 4 Aug 2018

1e10 said:
During the works the following diagrams are swapped

1307 Edinburgh - Reading 2009
1436 Newcastle - Plymouth 2139

Previously on a Friday the Plymouth trained was a double Voyager unit throughout, but during the Derby works it's the Reading service that enjoys 8+ carriages. Disappointment for me.

I think 1307 Edinburgh to Plymouth originally is booked double voyager so they kept it the same. Your right it’s sad though lucky them.

route101 · 4 Aug 2018

Gives Glasgow some direct services to places like Reading /Oxford , not for a long time .Though quicker to change at Wolves or Brum . First time Guildford to Aberdeen

DarloRich · 6 Aug 2018

leomartin125 said:
Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but recently CrossCountry have had a massive switcharound with their services involving the following core changes:

South West England to Scotland services will cease to operate bar one per day.

Southern England to Scotland services to start, with over 8 trains a day between Reading & Edinburgh compared to the one per day previously.

Why has this occurred? This ultimately means that no HST's can operate on the ultra long distance services as they could before, simply because they aren't cleared to operate down the Banbury line (or are they?). I think it's appauling that now the ULR services will at most, have 5 coaches, and ALL now be Voyagers. If CrossCountry want to lose the franchise, they are doing a damn good job about it.

oh dear! it is not as if there is a highly publicised large scale engineering scheme costing £200m closing Derby station for several months :

https://www.derby2018.co.uk/ or https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...ovement-programme/derby-resignalling-project/

route101 said:
First time Guildford to Aberdeen

a key market for XC!

leomartin125 said:
I just didn't understand it fully,

it is just a timetable alteration to accommodate an extra 30 minutes journey time required to avoid the closed Derby station. Although not strictly true imagine the paths swap over at Burton or Chesterfield

route101 · 6 Aug 2018

I see there is burton to Glasgow . What route are they taking to avoid Derby?

kje7812 · 6 Aug 2018

route101 said:
I see there is burton to Glasgow . What route are they taking to avoid Derby?

Via Castle Donnington
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C77010/2018/08/06/advanced

duffield · 6 Aug 2018

Incidentally, this normally freight only line (the Stenson junction to Sheet Stores junction section of the diversion, not the Toton yard bit!) may hopefully end up being used for regular passenger services in a few years as part of the 'Midlands connect' aspirations. It could for example accommodate an extra hourly Nottingham to Birmingham non-stop service bypassing Derby, with a journey time of just over an hour instead of the current 1hr15+

After traveling on the diversion it seems to have been maintained to a high standard (it's double track end to end, ride quality good and the line speeds seem reasonable though I don't think we were fully utilizing them since there's plenty of slack in the diversion timetable).
(What I'm getting at is that it's not a grotty little bit of freight line that would need considerable expense to bring it up to regular passenger use standard).

swt_passenger · 6 Aug 2018

leomartin125 said:
Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but recently CrossCountry have had a massive switcharound with their services involving the following core changes...

Here’s an earlier thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/xc-via-leeds.167606/
There are a couple of other threads where it is covered, so yes other people had noticed.

It isn’t new either, line closures in the Derby station area have been having the same impact on XC for years, but usually only for weekend engineering works. Other replies have already covered the timing reasons.

CrossCountry Switcharound

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