How will GTR cope with Brighton Pride crowds?

ShwervinMervin · 4 Aug 2018

Hi all,
Understood that not all of you are in Brighton, but I’m rather interested to see how the Railway deals with it this weekend.
Already I’ve heard of overcrowding along the network, with trains being incredibly full. And queues for refunds being a bit too long!
My father is actually at BTN for Southern today, not the best of experiences I bet :lol:

It’d be cool to see how the weekend pans out.

^AG

RailUK Forums

Caleb2010 · 4 Aug 2018

In previous years they have run as many 8car as poss on coastway services and told people not to travel unless necessary!

plcd1 · 4 Aug 2018

There has been social media commentary about trains being full in Central London before heading south. Also disabled people being forced to stand and people being spat on because trains are so full. Oh and intermediate stops being abandoned because no will be able to get on. And on top of that some trains are cancelled and many are running late. So all in all another exemplary day in the life of GTR. To be slightly fair it is always going to be hellish when there is a big event on a line that is usually crazily busy on sunny weekends anyway.

Imagine the carnage when they all try to get home. Eeek!

Caleb2010 · 4 Aug 2018

I can see it now! (Tongue firmly in cheek!)

Preston Park closed - Brighton will have barriers arranged to make people queue.

Then on the coastway.
Maybe a thousand turn up for an Eastbourne service and a single 313 turns up to work it!

Southern will do what they normally do and blame it on staff shortages!

There may be less trying to get home tonight as a lot camp out at waterhall and there’s usually a street party or two on the Sunday!

The sort of Sunday southern would have a rail replacement bus service on!!!

tnc1997 · 4 Aug 2018

plcd1 said:
There has been social media commentary about trains being full in Central London before heading south.

By chance I found myself at London Blackfriars earlier on this morning and wondered why it was so busy! The ticket gateline at the entrance to Platform 1 was closed for a time due to severe overcrowding on the platform itself and there were significant queues in the concourse for tickets. I've attached a couple of photos I took at the time (approx 10:00).

Robsignals · 4 Aug 2018

Caleb2010 said:
I can see it now! (Tongue firmly in cheek!)

Preston Park closed - Brighton will have barriers arranged to make people queue.

Then on the coastway.
Maybe a thousand turn up for an Eastbourne service and a single 313 turns up to work it!

Southern will do what they normally do and blame it on staff shortages!

There may be less trying to get home tonight as a lot camp out at waterhall and there’s usually a street party or two on the Sunday!

The sort of Sunday southern would have a rail replacement bus service on!!!

To be clear as planned Preston Park has been closed all day and London Road closed at noon, queuing is in place at Brighton. Does seem strange that the response to a station being convenient and busy is closure, with buses unable to run in the centre people are left with a long walk. Preston Park itself is the destination of the parade and focus of events and is fenced tickets only. The big event tonight is a concert featuring Brittany Spears who is very popular with LGBQ apparently, resold tickets banned. Another event tomorrow for the first time.

colchesterken · 4 Aug 2018

In the old days they would have put on lots of specials
things are so inflexible now

JonathanH · 4 Aug 2018

colchesterken said:
In the old days they would have put on lots of specials
things are so inflexible now

There are already 6 trains an hour from London to Brighton each hour on a Saturday. There are specials to Gatwick Airport this evening running in the path which would usually be occupied by the Brighton to Cambridge service if it was currently running.

Even if they did one run 'specials' how many trains an hour should they be running from Brighton towards London?

JonathanH · 4 Aug 2018

Robsignals said:
To be clear as planned Preston Park has been closed all day and London Road closed at noon, queuing is in place at Brighton. Does seem strange that the response to a station being convenient and busy is closure, with buses unable to run in the centre people are left with a long walk. Preston Park itself

Preston Park is a very crampt station basically on an alleyway under the railway with very narrow platforms as well and no facilities for less able people. Certainly not suitable for crowds of people.

Esker-pades · 4 Aug 2018

colchesterken said:
In the old days they would have put on lots of specials
things are so inflexible now

In the old days most of the people going to a pride march would have been arrested for the crime of being gay.

Pedantry aside, the lack of paths is down to the fact so many more people use the train normally, so when a special event exists, it is very hard to find the track space, especially on the Brighton Main Line for extra services. If paths existed, they'd already be used in normal running.

Robertj21a · 4 Aug 2018

colchesterken said:
In the old days they would have put on lots of specials
things are so inflexible now

How many more trains do you think they could cram on to the line ?

neilm · 4 Aug 2018

Robertj21a said:
How many more trains do you think they could cram on to the line ?

Cram? There is plenty of capacity on a Saturday now that TL only run 2 trains an hour.

So how many more trains they could run? They could start with running the extra 2 (4tph) they use to run before the May timetable change.

Since GTR is all one company, they could got Southern to run BTN to LBG today in these paths.

But of course, what is the point since it is a contract with the DfT and there is no incentive for them to do that....

Harbornite · 4 Aug 2018

FelixtheCat said:
In the old days most of the people going to a pride march would have been arrested for the crime of being gay.

Pedantry aside, the lack of paths is down to the fact so many more people use the train normally, so when a special event exists, it is very hard to find the track space, especially on the Brighton Main Line for extra services. If paths existed, they'd already be used in normal running.

Indeed.

neilm · 4 Aug 2018

Seems like GTR is struggling, according to twitter. Huge overcrowding, station closed and trains leaving empty.

I do hope they will be running extra trains after service like they have done in the past to clear the crowds. (In the past they ran trains to Gatwick to connect with the trains here that run all night).

Andrew S · 4 Aug 2018

FelixtheCat said:
In the old days most of the people going to a pride march would have been arrested for the crime of being gay.

Pedantry aside,

Not pedanry. Just offensive.

Esker-pades · 4 Aug 2018

Andrew S said:
Not pedanry. Just offensive.

Explain. It was a fact that homosexuality used to be illegal in this country.

Andrew S · 5 Aug 2018

FelixtheCat said:
Explain. It was a fact that homosexuality used to be illegal in this country.

I'm very well aware of that, thanks. Why refer to it in the context of the railway handling large crowds in Brighton?

Esker-pades · 5 Aug 2018

Andrew S said:
I'm very well aware of that, thanks. Why refer to it in the context of the railway handling large crowds in Brighton?

As an off-hand comment coupled to a response as to why no such specials can run given the infrastructure constraints.

I'd still like to know why it was considered offensive. If there's something I've missed which makes it offensive, then I need to have it pointed out so I don't make the same mistake again.

Andrew S · 5 Aug 2018

The legal or illegal status of homosexuality has no bearing on the ability to run special trains.

The suggestion that anyone attending a Pride type of event in the past would be arrested is inaccurate and offensive.

LAX54 · 5 Aug 2018

neilm said:
Cram? There is plenty of capacity on a Saturday now that TL only run 2 trains an hour.

So how many more trains they could run? They could start with running the extra 2 (4tph) they use to run before the May timetable change.

Since GTR is all one company, they could got Southern to run BTN to LBG today in these paths.

But of course, what is the point since it is a contract with the DfT and there is no incentive for them to do that....

They ran 4tph Bton to Vic this afternoon and 2 tph to Lon Bridge

Sapphire · 5 Aug 2018

I’m going to stab a guess that the key reference point here was “the good old days”. One comment that in the good old days specials would have run for an event... Responded to (given the event in question is pride) that in those same “good” old days being gay was illegal. A bit of bitter irony taken the wrong way? No homophobia to be found here, nothing implied that those days were good because it was illegal.

Esker-pades · 5 Aug 2018

Sapphire said:
I’m going to stab a guess that the key reference point here was “the good old days”. One comment that in the good old days specials would have run for an event... Responded to (given the event in question is pride) that in those same “good” old days being gay was illegal. A bit of bitter irony taken the wrong way? No homophobia to be found here, nothing implied that those days were good because it was illegal.

That is what I was aiming for.

mmh · 5 Aug 2018

Andrew S said:
The legal or illegal status of homosexuality has no bearing on the ability to run special trains.

The suggestion that anyone attending a Pride type of event in the past would be arrested is inaccurate and offensive.

I actually read his comment as supportive of the that Pride events can happen, as a response to someone suggesting things in the "good old days" were better.

Welcome by the way (this forum's a little unusual for showing everyone's join date), I hope you stay and enjoy it. There's lots of pretty blunt speak on here but it's an excellent forum and (mostly) good natured, and well moderated - it's quite an addictive place.

Sapphire · 5 Aug 2018

Me too, I took it to mean that the good old days weren’t always so good

Sapphire · 5 Aug 2018

I also really enjoy Pride events

Andrew S · 5 Aug 2018

Sapphire said:
I’m going to stab a guess that the key reference point here was “the good old days”. One comment that in the good old days specials would have run for an event... Responded to (given the event in question is pride) that in those same “good” old days being gay was illegal. A bit of bitter irony taken the wrong way?

No, no "bitter irony" at all. The comment was that anyone attending a Pride event would have been arrested. This is just plain inaccurate and offensive. It may have been a careless use of language I guess.

Esker-pades · 5 Aug 2018

Andrew S said:
No, no "bitter irony" at all. The comment was that anyone attending a Pride event would have been arrested. This is just plain inaccurate and offensive. It may have been a careless use of language I guess.

As the person who made the comment, the explanation of tone etc. provided by Sapphire and others is what I was going for. Please don't explain to me what I was trying to say.

mmh · 5 Aug 2018

Andrew S said:
No, no "bitter irony" at all. The comment was that anyone attending a Pride event would have been arrested. This is just plain inaccurate and offensive. It may have been a careless use of language I guess.

I honestly don't think anyone mean to be offensive. Nuanances of language are difficult in text sometimes, and all that. I'm gay, and I don't think I've ever experienced anything on this forum I'd class as homophobic - naivety sometimes, yes, but no real prejudice. Take people as you find them!

bicbasher · 5 Aug 2018

Well GTR didn't cope with that very well. The Brighton Centre has been opened up for passengers who can't get home tonight.

sammyg901 · 5 Aug 2018

An absolute screw up from what I heard from a friend there and have seen on Twitter

He got to the station pretty early and it was already a zoo, so I told him to get on anything going north (a stopper terminating Gatwick) and I would figure it out. By the time he got to Gatwick that was also packed as the only trains due in were coming from Brighton and ever more delayed (Gatwick express already finished) so he got an Uber the rest of the way

According to Twitter they were sending train loads to Three Bridges with seemingly no plan to get them further north causing a crowd control issue there

It has been months since Britney was announced to be performing which obviously was going to change the travel pattern + the good weather we've been having. Even today trains were extremely busy headed south so they had a good 12hrs realise they had a problem, bribe some drivers (TL, SN or GX) , get some 12 car sets down there, seperate provisions for Gatwick (Which is still busy at that time - even a few coaches on standby) and call in management to be on the ground to support

Or do nothing and lock the station and let the few scheduled trains leave empty...

How will GTR cope with Brighton Pride crowds?

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