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TRIVIA: Limited-stop bus services

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Ayman Ilham

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At my age, I'm not too bothered about Wi-Fi. That said, its very hit & miss on the MMCs anyway. Don't forget also, that the dedicated E400s on the 76 are only 6 years old, and as you concede, the seats aren't fully utilised off-peak anyway. The ones elsewhere - and certainly on Hyde Road corridor - are now approaching 10 years old and some sections of route (eg. Stockport-Reddish) can be heavily loaded for large portions of the day/week.
Yeah, I know they're MX12 reg, although I do see the green hybrids on the route more often now, which do have WiFi so that's a plus :) I used to commute on the Hyde Road corridor when I lived in Gorton! It's always nice to have a whole top deck to yourself though :D

The key problem is what market would they serve? Car ownership is so high, the train is faster, more comfortable, has a toilet etc. If the X61 still existed, making maximum use of the motorways, it'd probably take well over 2 hours, and you can bet on an hour plus delay at least once a week, some weeks every day. Plus no one goes to Blackpool anymore. I don't understand why anyone paying the full fare sits on the X41 (and in this case obviously neither could the people of Blackburn) or X43 beyond Rossendale, they might be shinier but I'd rather a Merseytravel Pacer than risk the car park that is Manchester and the M60. At least if you drive you can choose an alternative route.
Ah, some very good points! It would attract budget explorers like myself but the thing is, there aren't enough people like me to make more coach-operated bus routes (I was thinking some new routes, doesn't have to be the X61) out of Manchester economically viable! Even in Wales where they're much more needed (TrawsCymru routes currently use service buses on VERY lengthy journeys, only the T1C Aberystwyth to Cardiff recently got a coach upgrade), most people drive anyway!
 
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Statto

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Another problem is buses can get held up in Manchester City Centre, i caught the 09.45, X43 about a year ago to Skipton & we took 30 minutes to get out of the City Centre mostly because of waiting to get through traffic lights, but we got to Burnley just a little bit late, but departed to Skipton on time. As well as traffic itself, traffic lights have also become more of a pain feels like you're waiting ages to complete a cycle back to Green, then you have lights that don't have any filters for turning right like Portland Street turning onto Princess Street & have to wait a few cycles before you can clear the lights.
 

Dentonian

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Another problem is buses can get held up in Manchester City Centre, i caught the 09.45, X43 about a year ago to Skipton & we took 30 minutes to get out of the City Centre mostly because of waiting to get through traffic lights, but we got to Burnley just a little bit late, but departed to Skipton on time. As well as traffic itself, traffic lights have also become more of a pain feels like you're waiting ages to complete a cycle back to Green, then you have lights that don't have any filters for turning right like Portland Street turning onto Princess Street & have to wait a few cycles before you can clear the lights.
Traffic light management in GM is an utter disgrace. Not only do they nearly always turn red as buses approach but on such as Hyde Road a motorist can guarantee a full set of greens by speeding. Additionally I have noticed - off peak at least - traffic through the city centre has got worse since 2CC was completed.
 

Ayman Ilham

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Traffic light management in GM is an utter disgrace. Not only do they nearly always turn red as buses approach but on such as Hyde Road a motorist can guarantee a full set of greens by speeding. Additionally I have noticed - off peak at least - traffic through the city centre has got worse since 2CC was completed.
Why can't we just ban traffic lights??
 

Dentonian

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Why can't we just ban traffic lights??

In theory, because it would cause more accidents and congestion. In practice, whenever the lights have been out of order at such as Fairfield Street or the adjacent Mancunian Way roundabout - or indeed Belle Vue, buses have got in/out of Piccadilly much quicker, and Ive not heard of any accidents, as most motorists only regard Red lights as an advisory that vehicles might emerge from another street as they proceed. Maybe, its time to suspend all Traffic light junctions per se and only use Traffic lights to allow Pedestrians to cross the road.
 

Wirewiper

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Traffic lights are not the problem, it is the way they are managed. Improved phasing and priority measures can help buses (and trams) by reducing journey times and delays.

Traffic lights also help pedestrians in many locations by making it possible to actually cross the road!
 

Statto

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Traffic light management is the problem, some are a nightmare to get through because of this, worst ones tend to be those that don't have filter lights for right turns.
 

Dentonian

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Traffic lights are not the problem, it is the way they are managed. Improved phasing and priority measures can help buses (and trams) by reducing journey times and delays.

Traffic lights also help pedestrians in many locations by making it possible to actually cross the road!

It would be difficult to prioritise both buses and trams as they normally "compete" with each other at junctions. When I last caught an (off-peak) 216, I noticed that we were stopped at every set of lights in Ancoats, to allow priority for a tram shadowing the bus. Though I did notice that we still got to the Etihad quicker!

I did say Traffic Lights were still needed for pedestrians, but even then there is a problem as even when I was physically fit, it was impossible to cross both carriageways in one phase. Actually, what I used to do when I lived that way, was to run diagonally across the full junction at Denton, Crown Point. Of course, in the "Brave New World" of integrated transport replacing direct buses, such walking connections between buses, or bus and tram, would be highly relevant.
 

SCH117X

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Transdev 36 Leeds - Ripon is limited stop in inner Leeds; not picking up or not setting down and only stops at certain stops, typically those that equate to (former) pubs and post offices.
 

507021

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Lol one route i'd forgotten about & catch that regully when i'm out & about. 86A used to operate express Liverpool South Parkway-Airport don't think that does anymore.

It doesn't anymore.
 

DavidGrain

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My local bus services into Birmingham City Centre used to be National Express West Midlands services 140 and 141 which were both half hourly services co-ordinated to run at 15 minute intervals. The NXWM converted the 141 to run in their dark grey livery which for some reason they call Platinum and made it limited stop between Quinton Parish Church and Five Ways Edgbaston and renumbered it X10 which must confuse some people because it stops at the same stop in Colmore Row Birmingham City Centre as the number 10 which is a completely different route operated by a different company and co-incidentally was my local bus where I used to live previously.

The time tables are no longer co-ordinated as the X10 runs every 20 minutes while the 140 still runs every 30 minutes. Just to add to the confusion, occasionally a dark red liveried NXWM which you would think would be a 140 turns up on the X10 route.

More often these days if I am going right into the City Centre I am more likely to drive to my local station and get a train sometimes changing to a tram depending on where exactly in the City Centre I want to go.

To be honest I can remember only two occasions when my limited stop bus has managed to overtake an all-stops bus and even on one of those we got overtaken back when we were at a stop and the other bus went past.
 

Deerfold

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Calderdale has had many express services over the last 30 years - among them:

X6 (Huddersfield - Brighouse) - Bradford - Leeds
X08 Halifax - Leeds
X12 (Leeds) or (Bradford) - Halifax - Oldham - Manchester
X23 (Ripponden) - Halifax - Leeds
X24 Halifax - Leeds
X25 (Halifax) - (Elland) - Brighouse - Leeds
X36 Halifax - Elland - Huddersfield
X37 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X68 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X90 Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Todmorden - Blackpool (think this only ran one summer in the 90s)
M62 Halifax - Brighouse - Leeds


(those in Brackets were not served for all the time the route operated)

At the moment the only ones I can think of are the X22 I mentioned in my previous post, the X25 which now only runs once a day each way, the X58 Halifax - Rochdale which is no different from the 528 it replaced apart from having fewer journeys, the X63 Bradford - Brighouse - Huddersfield (which only misses out a few stops) and the X78 Halifax - Brighouse which seems to have that number as it partly replaced the 278 and misses out part of the route in favour of a bypass (which does have a couple of stops on it).
 

Deerfold

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Not sure if the X12 ever went to Leeds, but i have a Bradford timetable book for late 70s when it went Bradford-Manchester

It did. The terminus swapped from Bradford to Leeds and back again.

I used to catch the 1645 from Bradford to Ripponden a couple of times a week from 1986 until it was withdrawn.
 

Ianno87

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Calderdale has had many express services over the last 30 years - among them:

X6 (Huddersfield - Brighouse) - Bradford - Leeds
X08 Halifax - Leeds
X12 (Leeds) or (Bradford) - Halifax - Oldham - Manchester
X23 (Ripponden) - Halifax - Leeds
X24 Halifax - Leeds
X25 (Halifax) - (Elland) - Brighouse - Leeds
X36 Halifax - Elland - Huddersfield
X37 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X68 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X90 Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Todmorden - Blackpool (think this only ran one summer in the 90s)
M62 Halifax - Brighouse - Leeds


(those in Brackets were not served for all the time the route operated)

At the moment the only ones I can think of are the X22 I mentioned in my previous post, the X25 which now only runs once a day each way, the X58 Halifax - Rochdale which is no different from the 528 it replaced apart from having fewer journeys, the X63 Bradford - Brighouse - Huddersfield (which only misses out a few stops) and the X78 Halifax - Brighouse which seems to have that number as it partly replaced the 278 and misses out part of the route in favour of a bypass (which does have a couple of stops on it).

Also the very short lived M60 in about 2005. Bradford-Queenbury-Halifax-M62-Prestwich-Manchester-Trafford Centre. Bargain for £4-odd on a Greater Manchester First Day! Probably something to do with why it didn't make money...
 

Darklord8899

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Lothian Buses in Edinburgh run several peak time Limited Stop services (X12, X15, X25, X26, X29, X31, X33, X37, X43°, X44, X47)
° Lothian Country Buses
X12 also operates between Ingilston P+R and Murrayfield Stadium when there is Rugby or big concerts.
East Coast Buses run 2 Limited Stop services during the day and 1 peak hours:
X5 Edinburgh - North Berwick (not Sundays)
X7 Edinburgh - Haddington - Dunbar (Daily)
X24 Edinburgh - North Berwick (peak hours only)
From 19th August 2018, Lothian Country Buses will be running the X27/X28 Edinbugh - Livingston - Bathgate
(Limited Stop only in Edinburgh city environs)
 

61653 HTAFC

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Calderdale has had many express services over the last 30 years - among them:

X6 (Huddersfield - Brighouse) - Bradford - Leeds
X08 Halifax - Leeds
X12 (Leeds) or (Bradford) - Halifax - Oldham - Manchester
X23 (Ripponden) - Halifax - Leeds
X24 Halifax - Leeds
X25 (Halifax) - (Elland) - Brighouse - Leeds
X36 Halifax - Elland - Huddersfield
X37 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X68 Halifax - Huddersfield - Sheffield
X90 Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Todmorden - Blackpool (think this only ran one summer in the 90s)
M62 Halifax - Brighouse - Leeds


(those in Brackets were not served for all the time the route operated)

At the moment the only ones I can think of are the X22 I mentioned in my previous post, the X25 which now only runs once a day each way, the X58 Halifax - Rochdale which is no different from the 528 it replaced apart from having fewer journeys, the X63 Bradford - Brighouse - Huddersfield (which only misses out a few stops) and the X78 Halifax - Brighouse which seems to have that number as it partly replaced the 278 and misses out part of the route in favour of a bypass (which does have a couple of stops on it).
There was also the M1: Huddersfield - Waterloo - Flockton - West Bretton/Yorkshire Sculpture Park - M1 - Meadowhall -Sheffield.
 

DavidGrain

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In September National Express West Midlands are planning to convert part of the 140 service (Dudley to Birmingham) within the the Birmingham City boundary from Quinton Parish Church to Five Ways Edgbaston to limited stop and renumbering the service X8. This will match the X10 which shares the same route from Quinton Stag to Birmingham City Centre. The parallel all stops service is the no. 9 Stourbridge to Birmingham which joins the X8 and X10 at Quinton Parish Church.
 

Statto

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Route 500 between Liverpool city centre and Liverpool Airport.


From September the 500 will no longer be limited stop & stop at all stops & is being extended to Runcorn Murdishaw, it'll replace the 82A, Liverpool-Runcorn High Street Bus Station but still operate via Liverpool South Parkway, then replace the 79C to Murdishaw, frequency is every 30 minutes Liverpool-Widnes every 15 Widnes-Murdishaw, although deckers are being replaced by single deckers, timetables are already up on Halton Council website. 79C is being cut to operate Liverpool-Widnes only.
 

plcd1

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As mentioned above Tyne and Wear, Northumberland and Durham / Teeside have a long history of express routes as well as some oddities in terms of notionally "non express" routes actually having limited pick up / set down stops in and around Newcastle.

The volume of express services has declined somewhat in recent years although a decent number remain operated by Go North East and Arriva NE. Stagecoach Busways still have a few including two relative newcomers (X24, X34) which serve areas away from the Metro system and link to Newcastle City Centre. Part of the limited stop set up dates back to the old "corporation" restriction on longer distance buses not covering local journeys but even though deregulation swept this away some services still retain the restrictions - probably as much to speed services up than anything else. Some corridors have lost their old express routes (old X4 Newcastle - Washington - Sunderland and old X5 Newcastle - Washington - Hartlepool) while some have consolidated and expanded (old X94 is now the GNE X1 Newcastle - Washington - Easington Lane) and offer a higher frequency than the old co-ordinated X4/X5/X94 pattern did. What is now the GNE X21 (Newcastle - Bishop Auckland) is effectively a merging of the old 700 (OK) and 724 services in that it serves Durham Bus Station whereas OK did not. The old 700 was limited stop within Tyne and Wear but all stops within County Durham. I believe the X21 is similar.

What Tyne and Wear has tended to see, like many places, is a progressive merging and rationalisation of previously separate service groups into fewer and fewer services which have still notionally serve many of the places previously served albeit less frequently and with longer journey times on some links. One of the things I miss in London is having some decent express bus routes - there is certainly the potential for some extra ones.
 

ian1944

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View attachment 47270

M/c Corporation Transport ran many all day Limited Stop (LS) routes, some jointly with NWRCC and others with outlying municipalities, before they were incorporated into SELNEC. They were introduced to provide fast services to outer suburbs beyond the existing tram routes and ran LS when parallel with the trams to avoid extracting excessive revenue from them. The 3rd front blind on the city's buses, generally used for intermediate destinations, was changed to "LIMITED STOP" on these routes to warn intending passengers. Many of these services were introduced about 1930 as cross-city routes (aka Green Line in London), but were then split because of city centre congestion. Virtually none are left.

I remember the 101 from Piccadilly to Greenbrow Road, which was the fastest way from my childhood home near Southern Cemetery to the city centre. I recall it only stopped in Moss Side and Whitworth Street and took about 15 minutes for the trip; the dual carriageway Princess Road allowed fast running. The 101 still runs on essentially its original route, but is now "all stop", as most other bus routes to Wythenshawe have been withdrawn.

To amplify this for anyone interested, in the 50s and early 60s there were two all-day MCTD LS services from Piccadilly along Oxford/Wilmslow/Palatine Roads, the 50 to Brooklands and the 64 (joint with NWRCC) to Styal with a common route as far as Northenden. Only every third or fourth stop was served until West Didsbury, after which all stops were used. It might have been thought that the idea was to save time, but the southbound 50 was handicapped by the daftest imaginable arrangement at West Didsbury. Unlike the 64, whose stop was on Palatine Road just before the Lapwing Lane crossroads, the 50's was just into Lapwing Lane (not quite 90 degree left turn). To continue along Palatine Road, the driver with no power-assisted steering had to make a 180 degree right turn across the width of Lapwing Lane and then an immediate more than 90 degree left turn on a tight radius - possibly a world record for the number of steering wheel revolutions in such a short time.
 

PermitToTravel

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It's a shame really, cos now there are no coach services left that you can ride with day tickets anywhere in Greater Manchester, just NatEx and Megabus which have to be reserved in advance!

According to https://www.nxagents.com/Guide56/350/CGR350(G56).pdf, the Peak Wayfarer (renamed by GMPTE to just the Wayfarer in 1988) is valid on the National Express Sheffield coaches as far as Crowden. That timetable is a few years old and I'm not sure whether such validity remains
 

Smethwickian

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According to https://www.nxagents.com/Guide56/350/CGR350(G56).pdf, the Peak Wayfarer (renamed by GMPTE to just the Wayfarer in 1988) is valid on the National Express Sheffield coaches as far as Crowden. That timetable is a few years old and I'm not sure whether such validity remains
There is a more up-to-date service 350 timetable dated May 2018 on the public website here https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/timetables which no longer mentions Wayfarer at all, sadly. Neither is there any instruction in the latest fare chart at https://www.nxagents.com/theguide/ dated January 2018. I note that the walk-on adult single between Manchester and Crowden is £7, making it a costly way of accessing that bus-free area of the Peak District.
 
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daodao

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There is a more up-to-date service 350 timetable dated May 2018 on the public website here https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/timetables which no longer mentions Wayfarer at all, sadly. Neither is there any instruction in the latest fare chart at https://www.nxagents.com/theguide/ dated January 2018. I note that the walk-on adult angle between Manchester and Crowden is £7, making it a costly way of accessing that bus-free area of the Peak District.
And no longer of any use for hikers form M/c, as the morning departure from M/c, and the evening departure from Sheffield, have both been withdrawn. Long-distance coach and bus travel in England is declining, except on a few interurban routes where the rail alternative is inadequate or non-existent.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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As mentioned above Tyne and Wear, Northumberland and Durham / Teeside have a long history of express routes as well as some oddities in terms of notionally "non express" routes actually having limited pick up / set down stops in and around Newcastle.

What is now the GNE X21 (Newcastle - Bishop Auckland) is effectively a merging of the old 700 (OK) and 724 services in that it serves Durham Bus Station whereas OK did not. The old 700 was limited stop within Tyne and Wear but all stops within County Durham. I believe the X21 is similar.

What Tyne and Wear has tended to see, like many places, is a progressive merging and rationalisation of previously separate service groups into fewer and fewer services which have still notionally serve many of the places previously served albeit less frequently and with longer journey times on some links. One of the things I miss in London is having some decent express bus routes - there is certainly the potential for some extra ones.

The 700/724 becoming the X21 - to be honest, it also harks back to the replacement for the 724 that became the X20 in the early 1980s before it was scrapped at deregulation.

It's fair to say that there were quite a number of limited stop services in the North East and many have gone, such as the ones you mention and also some of the ones from the edges of Newcastle. Also, there were a number that were introduced with the relaxation of coach services that latterly declined (like Darlington to Newcastle) on the back of improved rail reliability etc. Quite odd to think that United and DTC fought over that route which no longer exists.

Deregulation did bring a number of new limited stop corridors that didn't exist and a number have stayed and grown. Prior to 1986, the fastest journey from Middlesbrough to Darlington was an hourly service taking 55 mins. An hourly fast service (omitting Stockton and a number of villages like Sadberge) was introduced in 1986 and whilst it has now returned to Stockton, the fast service continues to miss out the villages and now boasts a 15 minute frequency. The losers are the villages who have virtually no bus service but the main traffic flows have a higher service than ever.

The X93 is bigger and better than ever, and the X3/X4 provide a fast Redcar to Middlesbrough service that again never existed prior to deregulation.
 

Dentonian

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And no longer of any use for hikers form M/c, as the morning departure from M/c, and the evening departure from Sheffield, have both been withdrawn. Long-distance coach and bus travel in England is declining, except on a few interurban routes where the rail alternative is inadequate or non-existent.
To paraphrase Henry Ford "You can go anywhere by coach from Manchester.... provided it begins with L. And isn't Leicester or Lincoln or Llandudno.
 

ivanhoe

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Fond memories of the old 500 which was limited stop from Speke to Kirkby. It was well used as it provided fast journeys from both Speke and Kirkby to the City Centre and also provided through journies from Speke to The North End of Liverpool via Scotland Road and Walton Road. It was stopped when the section of railway between Central and Garston was reopened in 1976(I think ) and the original Merseyrail train ran from Kirkby(Now Southport) to Garston. To placate the residents of Speke, a stopping service, 84, was put on which ran from Speke to Garston Station on the premise that you changed from bus to train to complete your journey. It was doomed to failure because the 84 was not limited stop and there was little time advantage in changing modes when going to the City Centre. It was just as quick to remain on the through services such as the 82 or indeed the old Crosville service,H1.500 has since been resurrected as an Airport to the City Centre Route for a different market than its predecessor.
 
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