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Class 378 refresh

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Via Bank

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Hopefully they can use this opportunity to reconfigure the PIS to be less noisy, especially at short platforms. There are periods on the ELL where they never shut up, to the point where you only hear the short platform information once you’re already leaving the station.

It’s a nice surprise that they’re being refurbished, though. They still look great outside and inside.
 
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superalbs

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To be honest, I was on a few Class 378 units yesterday, and they're not in a very good state, so it will be good to see some of them done up.

Seats coming loose and all!

I like the look of it so far.
 
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Mikey C

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It's not rocket science. TfL specify a tightly specced and measured performance regime covering a wide range of attributes. They are also relatively hands on in terms of checking what is actually being done. I think they have learnt a load of lessons over the years from PPP, DLR sub contracting and also how they track and measure performance on the bus network and Tube. None of it is perfect and it's clear there have been a range of issues over the years. TfL has also had the ability to spend its way out of certain issues although that's pretty much gone now.

The important difference is that TfL know they are the client, they act like the client and they have their own means of measuring, checking and analysing whatever the operator may submit or claim. TfL are also able to take a long term view as they have secured the right to operate these services in the long term and can therefore take a view longer than one franchise. The operator is also not obsessed with the revenue bottom line although they have an incentive to minimise ticket fraud. The main danger for TfL is an operator may become overly obsessed with costs in their regime leading to some unsatisfactory decisions. I assume TfL have tried to reduce that risk by ensuring there are minimum standards across a wide variety of attributes to prevent the cost base being eroded. I suspect TfL would be happy to see "acceptable" cost savings and probably has a mechanism to share in the benefits but would need to agree to any such savings. Overground and TfL Rail aren't perfect by any means and I think the contract with Arriva is going to struggle compared to how LOROL performed but I'd rather have TfL's approach than what we see on other urban rail networks in the UK.

The Dft say they are NOT the client despite speccing the franchises. They say everything's down to the TOC or Network Rail even though DfT dictate rolling stock policy and deployment and obviously control NR's budget and spending. DfT say they are "hands off" with franchisees and I suspect they are on a number of things like properly managing the contract, verifying performance is what the TOC says it is and actually getting out there and seeing what the heck is going on. Meanwhile in a lot of unhelpful ways the DfT are far too "hands on". It's no wonder there are issues on a number of franchises when the body that actually is responsible for railways, despite its denials, doesn't know what it wants to do or why.

TfL, at the time the Overground deal was finalised, probably were prepared to pay more money to the operator than other clients, hence the "not strictly necessary" refurbishment.

If this hadn't been part of the contract, I doubt TfL would be spending such money now separately
 

SprattyHeath

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Being a local of this line and this company in general makes me really gutted that they had to ruin such a great livery, there really was no need for it, the black looks horrid, and the orange just doesn't work for me.
 

swt_passenger

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Being a local of this line and this company in general makes me really gutted that they had to ruin such a great livery, there really was no need for it, the black looks horrid, and the orange just doesn't work for me.
TfL specify the livery, branding and everything to do with interior signage. I expect they have gone for the idea of a common design across everything on LO, so it makes sense to bring the existing 378s into line with the new 710s.
 

samuelmorris

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I think I'll have to wait to see them in different lighting before I pass judgement. The shade of orange looks totally different to that currently used on 378s and given TfL's strict adherence to colour codes I can't believe that's actually the case. As it stands, it looks quite good, but in my opinion, less good than the original livery. I'm not usually keen on yellow fronts but the 378 is one example of where it really works well, or at least it was!
 

FOH

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Demonstrating the need for internal refurb, silvered seats from use and chipped paint on the underseat heat/air con units.
full
 

dmncf

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Hopefully they can use this opportunity to reconfigure the PIS to be less noisy, especially at short platforms. There are periods on the ELL where they never shut up, to the point where you only hear the short platform information once you’re already leaving the station.

It’s a nice surprise that they’re being refurbished, though. They still look great outside and inside.

I wonder if the 378s will stop announcing "...national and international rail services." on arrival at Stratford? :D
 

LiftFan

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The remaining unrefurbished 96TS still look amazingly good for their age...
 

samuelmorris

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The remaining unrefurbished 96TS still look amazingly good for their age...
Possibly but some of the handrails are pretty rotten now, and there are quite a few acid cleaned panels on them that look rather unsightly. That refresh needed doing, just a shame about the drab colour!
 

superalbs

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First completed unit sighted being hauled through Stratford Regional today. More information possibly to follow?
 

Shunter_69

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It was being towed by 37800. I passed it at Maryland.
I believe so but didn’t get a great view as I was whizzing past.

*** edit ***

I should really proof read what I’m doing. That was supposed to be a reply about the yellow end. Was obviously in a rush when I replied
 
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samuelmorris

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I'm guessing this livery was never meant to be used with a yellow panel, but having painted the unit they've had to settle with it. I imagine/hope they'll amend the new livery to better suit the yellow panel requirement. If they don't, oh well, 57 eyesores coming our way!
 

AverageTD

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It looks interesting to say the least but not bad. It looked better with both the original livery or the refurb with the black front. I think that all they needed to do was an overall big cleanup and replace the seats which would keep the units going for another 7-10 years.
 

Mikey C

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Yuk
Looks weird having the unit number on the side too
 
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