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Rannoch - Access from the West

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Gathursty

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Several years ago, I drove down the 50 mile B846 from Pitlochry to Rannoch station.

1) Has there ever been proposals to connect it with the A82 north of Bridge of Orchy which seems much closer?
1a) How much of an engineering challenge would building a single track road with passing places from the A82 to Rannoch Station? Would Network Rail want to contribute given it would permit a shorter road to the station?
2) Did the B846 or the road which is now called B846 end at Rannoch station before or after the railway station was built?
3) What benefits would there be in continuing the B846 beyond Rannoch to the A82?
 
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Altnabreac

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What on earth would the point of it be?

It would only be of practical use for settlements south of Dalwhinnie and north of Ballinluig.

Even then if you’re heading for Fort William you’d be better using the A889 / A86 and if you’re heading for Oban you’d be better using the A827 / A85.

Broadly that is journeys from Pitlochry, Blair Atholl, Tummel Bridge and Kinloch Rannoch to Glencoe, Ballachulish and Kinlochleven. Would need to see some journey data but I can’t imagine the demand is more than a few journeys a week.
 

paul1609

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When it was a drove road the road past what is now Rannoch station continued on to what is now the A82 just past the Kings House Hotel. It is one of several roads that existed in the Highlands and Argyl which were never upgraded to motor roads and subsequently fell in to disuse. It remains as a right of way for walkers etc.
 

snowball

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The OS map seems to show the road continuing west as forestry tracks to the A82, but degenerating to something like a footpath for about a mile of that.

Presumably this is the "Road to the Isles" of the song? "Sure by Tummel and Loch Rannoch and Lochaber I will go"
 

Gathursty

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I am aware, Altnabreac, that there would be minimal usage based on the nearest villages populations but I was thinking more about Network Rail's maintenance requirements and tourists to the Highlands using small vehicles and trains.

How do Network Rail access the area by Rannoch? I can't imagine they drive all the way down the B846.

I imagine the distance from Kings House on the A82 to Rannoch Station by the direct, dilapidated path to be no more than 20 miles. I gather using going North or South along A roads would be near 100 miles.

It is an idea that may improve tourism and possibly help Network Rail out or it may be a waste but I do think there is a need for better East to West Scottish connections if not by rail then by road. I do think there is something in opening up Rannoch to the West for tourists. It could be a route opened only in Summer months for example and be restricted to small vehicles only to help the environment and maintenance of the road.
 

47271

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The road would cut straight across Rannoch Moor which is a Site of Special Scientific Interest. Any development proposal would be met with massive opposition on environmental grounds. I for one would be totally against it for that reason - we've got quite enough people driving all over sensitive parts of Scottish landscape as it is.

It's a complete non starter I hope.
 

ac6000cw

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I believe they have (or had) modified Land Rover/s which can travel on the track.

Correct.

In parts of the world where railways are not readily accessible by road, road/rail vehicles are very commonly used for inspection and maintenance (in USA & Canada the modified pickup trucks they use for inspections and light maintenance are known as 'Hi-Rail' vehicles - they also commonly use rather larger road/rail capable 6 x 4 trucks for heavier maintenance).

BR used to have a fleet of 'Bruff' road/rail vehicles - I guess NR has something similar?
 

InOban

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I didn't realise they were worth commenting on. There are several locations on the WHL where they have created what amounts to a one-sided level crossing where these vehicles access the line. If you visit Oban there's one a quarter of a mile outside the station.
 

Highland37

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The OS map seems to show the road continuing west as forestry tracks to the A82, but degenerating to something like a footpath for about a mile of that.

Presumably this is the "Road to the Isles" of the song? "Sure by Tummel and Loch Rannoch and Lochaber I will go"

As far as I know, the "Road to the Isles" is the track east of the railway line between Corrour and Rannoch.
 

petegunstone

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There is a reason why the drovers’ road to the west of Rannoch station to the A82 fell into disrepair: it is mostly bog. Indeed, at Rome’s it is possible to canoe most of the way. Without engaging in a massive foundation laying project akin to the builders of the West Highland Line who, it is said, chucked endless trees into the big to provide something approaching a foundation to lay the trackbed on, a road-building project would be futile.

And yes, it’s a SSSI, one of the most important areas of blanket bog, which is fairly scarce on a global scale, so why spoil it? Areas of wilderness becoming increasingly important to our increasingly technological society, in my view. That’s why I take the train to go walking from Rannoch, Corrour, Altnabreac and the like - because they are so remote, so other from our contemporary urban experiences of life.
 

paul1609

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There is a reason why the drovers’ road to the west of Rannoch station to the A82 fell into disrepair: it is mostly bog. Indeed, at Rome’s it is possible to canoe most of the way. Without engaging in a massive foundation laying project akin to the builders of the West Highland Line who, it is said, chucked endless trees into the big to provide something approaching a foundation to lay the trackbed on, a road-building project would be futile.

And yes, it’s a SSSI, one of the most important areas of blanket bog, which is fairly scarce on a global scale, so why spoil it? Areas of wilderness becoming increasingly important to our increasingly technological society, in my view. That’s why I take the train to go walking from Rannoch, Corrour, Altnabreac and the like - because they are so remote, so other from our contemporary urban experiences of life.
I've walked this route. At the Rannoch End for about 3 miles it is an improved forestry track then at the end of the forestry it is a well defined path for a mile before rejoining a track that improves as it goes on but is easily used by a car by black corries and the access road to the communications mast.
To be honest in this day and age there would be no engineering issue with building a new road through but like yourself I wouldn't be in favour. In my lifetime the wilderness that is Rannoch moor has been greatly diminished.
 

AndyPJG

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When on a motor caravan holiday in the mid/late 1960s, I can recall seeing somewhere in the Ballachulish area proposals (for consultation?) for a road to connect Rannoch Stn to the A82. Looks like nothing became of it.
 

InOban

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There are several online resources showing the old routes, some military, some droving. (Glen Nevis, for example, was not a drove road, your cattle would have fallen into the gorge.) In the sixties, when a number of missing links were built on the West coast, there were suggestions for some cross-country routes - I particularly remember the suggestion of a link from Glen Feshie to Braemar, but I don't recall Rannoch. Fortunately none were built, and I can't imagine them being built now.

Not really a rail topic. Isn't there a more suitable thread?
 

haggishunter

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When on a motor caravan holiday in the mid/late 1960s, I can recall seeing somewhere in the Ballachulish area proposals (for consultation?) for a road to connect Rannoch Stn to the A82. Looks like nothing became of it.

That was part of a proposed E-W link from the A82 over Rannoch Moor via Rannoch Station and from the A9 through the Cairngorms via the Lairig Ghru connecting from just North of Kincraig near Kinrara past Loch an Eilein to the footpath fork known as Piccadilly and on into the Lairig Ghru.

I've heard about this from people of various generations with connections to the Scottish mountaineering and ski communities and people with a lot of knowledge about the Cairngorms, but never found any maps or official info on proposed schemes cropping up online. I've heard mention that a monorail was even proposed from Braemar to Aviemore in the 1960s!. Perhaps they were akin to the modern day DMRB stage 1 sifting process routes for the A9 and A96 dualling such as taking the A9 over the Corrieyairack Pass and through Whitebridge and Farr to Daviot or re-routing the principle Aberdeen - Inverness Trunk Road via dualling of the A939 Lecht Pass!

If the Highland population hadn't fallen by over half since the formation of the UK in 1707, a time period in which the UK's population increased 10 fold, many of these hypothetical routes would have naturally evolved from historic drovers routes to modern communications. Far from being natural wilderness that has 'quite enough people driving all over sensitive parts of Scottish landscape as it is', far too much of Highland Scotland is more accurately described as a human wasteland, unnaturally emptied of it's townships and people. Far from improving the ecological condition, far to much of upland rural Scotland is now ecologically in a worse condition than when far more populated under a more diverse and sustainable land use pattern. Whether by overgrazing by an unsustainable number of red deer and/or the over dominance of a monoculture of excessively managed grouse moors, far to much is now in the unfortunate category of being both an ecological and human desert.

Which if any of the proposals such those around in the 60s would be acceptable in ecological terms given the current history of the Highlands is a long debate, an E-W connection across Rannoch Moor would reduce the sense of remoteness, but it is already crossed by a railway and a major arterial trunk road and human perception of wilderness and remoteness does not necessarily correlate with actual environmental impact. The impact on the scale of the moor would be slight, where as the impact of a road to the scale of the Lairig Ghru would be huge (and a road on Rannoch Moor is far more practicable in terms of winter operations than one through the Lairig Ghru).

I suppose an interesting aspect related to this discussion is what historic or completely new routes would you like to see today? If I could have one piece of old infrastructure, it would be the railway up the Great Glen, but extended to Inverness. I recall seeing some discussion here about a rail link from Tulloch to the Highland Main Line, I certainly think it is a loss to the Highlands that there isn't a within Highland rail link from Fort William to Inverness given FW being the second largest population centre within the Highland Council area. But I guess such a link if built would pose a threat to the WHL between Crianlarich and Tulloch over Rannoch Moor?

The OP in this thread was really about the issue of East-West links in Highland Scotland and they generally aren't good, so for a new piece of infrastructure I'd punt in relation to the A9 dualling, a new A86 alignment from near Ralia, Glen Truim to the existing A86/A889 junction, giving a shorter and vastly better aligned route and taking E-W traffic out of Dalwhinne, Newtonmore and Kingussie respectively.
 

jfisher21

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No more roads needed round Rannoch Moor, thank you very much! It is a great place of peace and quiet, one of the only ones left to
 

InOban

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I agree with haggishunter's assessment of ecology of the Highlands, except that omitted the damage caused by hill sheep farming.
 

XDM

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I have really enjoyed this thread. Perhaps part of an interest in railways is an interest in routes.

I was shocked to read in #19 of a road once proposed through the awe inspiring Lairig Ghru.
I walked it some time ago from Aviemore to Braemar & then the next day from Braemar to Blair Atholl via Glen Tilt. Two monster all day walks, which made my partner vow to never walk with me again.
A road through Lairig Ghru smashing through the pools of Dee would have been a ghastly disaster.

The walk from Rannock to the hotel on the A82 in Glen Coe mentioned in#16 looks like an equally monster 20 mile plus walk.
Well done Paul1609.

These remote glens demonstrate the vastly superior environmental benefits of rail versus road.

Walking the West Highland way there are places where you only share your side of the valley with the railway, a companion you barely notice. When the main road is on your side you may as well be in Oxford street London, plus motorbikes.
If the A82 had been barred from Glencoe the walk through would be as inspiring as the road free Lairg Ghru.
 

47271

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I agree with haggishunter's assessment of ecology of the Highlands, except that omitted the damage caused by hill sheep farming.
Yes, I agree too, although I'm not sure that Rannoch Moor ever had much in the way of population. If we'd been discussing building a road in a depopulated section of Sutherland that isn't an SSSI then I might have had a less firm response to the idea!

Anyway, we're massively off topic in a thread that was barely relevant to the railway in the first place...
 

InOban

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We could start discussing the origin of Rannoch Moor in the Lomond Readvance at the end of the ice age...!
 

Gathursty

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I've walked this route. At the Rannoch End for about 3 miles it is an improved forestry track then at the end of the forestry it is a well defined path for a mile before rejoining a track that improves as it goes on but is easily used by a car by black corries and the access road to the communications mast.
To be honest in this day and age there would be no engineering issue with building a new road through but like yourself I wouldn't be in favour. In my lifetime the wilderness that is Rannoch moor has been greatly diminished.

I'm impressed that you have done that walk as it is a rather remote walk to take. Thank you for detailing the status of parts of the route.

I don't want Rannoch Moor to be destroyed by a massive road. It may be good to investigate the business case for a private or toll accessible single track road for seasonal use only for tourists in small vehicles or motorcycles who wish to go from Glencoe to Pitlochry/Perth/Dundee without taking a longer route. They could also connect with West Highland Line services at Rannoch for extra connectivity. Remember the track is already there in some state so to develop it into something roadworthy for small vehicles on a single track I doubt would be the apocalypse some posters on here think it would be.

Thanks for the information regarding the vehicles with bogies that can take them on the track. I assume they would travel on the rails from Crianlarich or Fort William as there are maintenance depots there. Is this right?
How long would it take this maintenance vehicle to travel from their depot to Rannoch/Corrour/Tulloch?
 

catfordbags

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I've walked this route. At the Rannoch End for about 3 miles it is an improved forestry track then at the end of the forestry it is a well defined path for a mile before rejoining a track that improves as it goes on but is easily used by a car by black corries and the access road to the communications mast.
To be honest in this day and age there would be no engineering issue with building a new road through but like yourself I wouldn't be in favour. In my lifetime the wilderness that is Rannoch moor has been greatly diminished.
We traversed Rannoch Moor as part of a 'coast to coast' canoe expedition a couple of years ago … an amazing wild wilderness … with the added excitement of dragging the canoes across the tracks a few miles north of Rannoch.
 
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