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Arriva Rail North DOO
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If it's like it was under London Midland revenue checks on the ex-CT routes are common but ones on the ex-Silverlink routes are non-existent.
Yeah, the services I use are all at the Top end of the franchise, not used an ex-silverlink service for years. The staff at Crewe in particular, are a good bunch.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And the ones I use at the Euston end where ticket checks are extremely rare. (Many stations are barriered, but these are often open, and obviously this doesn't enforce First Class).
The RMT have announced three new 24 hour strikes despite talks being planned for Friday 17th August.
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 25th August 2018,
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 1st September 2018
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 8th September 2018.
Mick Cash mustn't have got his invitation to join UKIP yet, he's still spewing out his usual "Greedy Germans coming over here and wanting to get rid of our safety critical guards."
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 25th August 2018,
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 1st September 2018
· 00:01 and 23:59 on Saturday 8th September 2018.
Mick Cash mustn't have got his invitation to join UKIP yet, he's still spewing out his usual "Greedy Germans coming over here and wanting to get rid of our safety critical guards."
So they're really going all out to destroy discretionary travel. "Courageous" strategy there.
Kite159
Veteran Member
There goes my plans for an East Yorkshire round robin on the 8th then 
Robertj21a
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Killingworth
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Pulling the house down on oneself certainly does seem to display masochistic tendencies.
It doesn't seem to have dawned that rail travellers are more likely to be able to afford cars and will get used to using them the longer the dispute goes on. And they'll relocate nearer their work. Or get used to working from home.
As seems to have happened in the south-east. Just when rail had built up a momentum of increasing use.
There are 3 sides in this. Surely it's not beyond their collective wits to resolve this without having to risk destroying the very business that is their raison d'etre.
a_c_skinner
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Thank you, in my diary. It seems a curious way to reach an agreement.
northernchris
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Quite a good move to pencil in the strikes with talks due, shows Northern they need to progress in their proposals. That said, it comes across as really petty to constantly bang on about Arriva being German owned as that has nothing at all to do with the dispute
a_c_skinner
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Both sides need to progress. Personally I don't see Northern has much need to do anything as ignoring the whole shooting match seems to have gone tolerably well in Southern and so far in Northern. However that is plainly not desirable, and for the record I think there should be a second trained person on the train.
alansheppard77
Member
they are not getting rid of the guards
alansheppard77
Member
dont blame Northern its the unions causing all this,no jobs are being lost
the sniper
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Damned for striking in the week, due to inevitably driving ordinary decent working people to unemployment/starvation/suicide because they can't get to work by train, damned for striking at the weekend, due to destroying ordinary decent working peoples ability to survive life by catching a train to visit high-street stores and opportunities to eat and get drunk at a higher price than you would at home...
Most people I know in the industry, be it Guards, Drivers, Supervisors or low to mid level management, don't believe that 'DCO'/second manning will last beyond the honeymoon period of eight to ten years. The railway isn't going to change due to lack of patronage in the next ten years. So your forecast needn't be the Guards primary concern. Any longer term trends around people moving away from rail travel won't have been caused by some scattered strikes 10 years previous anyway. You ignore that the normal unreliability, vulnerability to completely falling over, uncomfortable and overcrowded nature and general incompetence and indifference shown by those who run the railway (see timetable changes, staff shortages, rolling stock and infrastructure problems) over a longer period of time will have contributed far more greatly towards dissuading people from relying on the railway going forward then some relatively short term, sporadic industrial action.
Damned for striking in the week, due to inevitably driving ordinary decent working people to unemployment/starvation/suicide because they can't get to work by train, damned for striking at the weekend, due to destroying ordinary decent working peoples ability to survive life by catching a train to visit high-street stores and opportunities to eat and get drunk at a higher price than you would at home...
Let's hope that those with a choice of how and when to travel decide to come back to the railway, otherwise we're all screwed.
AngelicUpstart
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As an anecdote, I work in an office of 16 people in Preston. Before electrification work on the Blackpool line started, 9 of that 16 commuted by train daily, 8 from various Fylde Coast stations and one from Blackburn. None of the 8 from the Fylde Coast now use the train, cheaper and more reliable buses being the reason for 4 of them, three car share and I cycle (on really bad days I can join the car share). They all had the intention of returning to the train once electrification work had finished, none have. The chap from Blackburn's annual season ticket expires at the end of the month, he isn't renewing.
Now I'm assuming this is an extreme example, even though I know several other people on the Fylde who have ceased commuting by train in the last year, but it asks the question of how long will it be before the powers that be decide that there are too many trains running to Blackpool and less trains require less rail staff and I'm sure the RMT would love to go on strike when Northern propose redundancies.....
Now I'm assuming this is an extreme example, even though I know several other people on the Fylde who have ceased commuting by train in the last year, but it asks the question of how long will it be before the powers that be decide that there are too many trains running to Blackpool and less trains require less rail staff and I'm sure the RMT would love to go on strike when Northern propose redundancies.....
Killingworth
Established Member
Very good illustration of market forces in action. It takes years to build up your loyal regular customer base. They can be lost all too easily when forced to find an alternative, do so, and find it's better - and wonder why they didn't change years ago.
Some may filter back, but any disruption, for any reason, will risk making that lost custom permanent. The new routine soon becomes automatic.
Unless the RMT are willing to agree to change then the talks will be pointless.
Damned for striking in the week, due to inevitably driving ordinary decent working people to unemployment/starvation/suicide because they can't get to work by train, damned for striking at the weekend, due to destroying ordinary decent working peoples ability to survive life by catching a train to visit high-street stores and opportunities to eat and get drunk at a higher price than you would at home...
While the railways transport fewer commuters and more leisure travellers on Saturday, those leisure travellers will have nowhere to go if there weren't people working on Saturdays - swimming pools will be closed if the lifeguards can't get there, shops will be closed if the staff can't get there etc.
Both the Northern and TPE franchises were let on the basis that lots of additional services are required due to increased patronage. Come 2023 when DfT are considering what to do about the high number of 150s which will need replacing, it could well be cutbacks to services resulting in compulsory redundancies if passenger numbers don't pick up again after the industrial action ends.
So are there still talks happening then? I thought they had broken down thats why the strikes were called? Or am I wrong.
As regards striking on Saturdays, the football season has also resumed so there's bound to be more discretionary travel into major cities. Arguably (given the number of passengers in ex-PTE areas who'll have multi modal season tickets) it's a more direct way of hitting Northern's bottom line than striking in the week.
Not to mention the bank holiday coming up.
As DfT are picking up the bill for strikes it should not make any difference to Northern's bottom line.
furnessvale
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So that is why the Government is saving money elsewhere in the railway budget by doing things like cancelling electrification and platforms 15/16 at Piccadilly.
It all makes sense now.
When they get it. According to Tony Miles Serco/Abellio are still owed a rebate from DfT from Virgin taking the old franchise's Stockport to Manchester paths in 2008 and DfT aren't even sure how the figure should be calculated.
The LGBT community are particularly annoyed with the RMT announcing a strike which coincides with Manchester Pride.
Well alienating your supporters is standard for the RMT. They even went on strike during Donald Trumps visit causing problems for protesters, who were most likely sympathetic to RMT's aims. Oh well it will just continue till DOO is implemented. I cant imagine more talks now as I didnt see the point of the last lot of talks to be honest. There is nothing Northern could offer that would apease RMT.
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