• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Good start to the day for Virgin Trains with good performance on fast AM peak services

Status
Not open for further replies.

peter166

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2010
Messages
227
Location
NW
Under 2 hours to Euston from Manchester, Liverpool & Wigan today. Is this a record ?

1R18 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70743/2018/08/09/advanced
Departed Manchester Picc 0658; arrived Euston 0854
1R19 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70744/2018/08/09/advanced
Departed Liverpool Lime St 0659; arrived Euston 0859
1R20 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70745/2018/08/09/advanced
Departed Wigan NW 0709; arrived Euston 0903
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,036
Location
No longer here
Those are pretty quick. Not sure what the records are in terms of public passengers services (and not organised speed runs).
 

voyagerdude220

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2005
Messages
3,264
Those are pretty quick. Not sure what the records are in terms of public passengers services (and not organised speed runs).

I'm not sure either. I seem to remember in the days of the 16:30 Euston to Glasgow running none stop to Preston, it sometimes managed to reach Preston for about 18:26/18:27 the odd time.

A little off topic, but I think it's a shame Virgin don't run any services none stop anymore between Preston and London Euston. Surely it would be a good idea, to re time a couple of trains between Preston and London (and vice versa) none stop, when there's a Blackpool to Euston running shortly before/after the fast Scotland to London.

i.e. Scotland to Euston as now as far as Preston, then none stop to Euston.
Blackpool to Euston there to pick up Wigan/Warrington passengers.

Admittedly southbound the timings wouldn't be great, because of the Blackpool to Euston being quite a lot slower than the equivalent Scotland to Euston, however, northbound, I think it would:

10:30 Euston to Glasgow Central arrive Preston 12:38- if ran none stop- possibly arrive 12:30.
10:36 Euston to Blackpool North- arrive Preston 12:57- only currently 13 minutes slower
 

jfisher21

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
218
The line was a bit clearer than usual as the 0741 from international was cancelled ... probably helped. As a regular on the London - Coventry run, if there are no speed checks and a quick stop, can arrive 4-5 mins early.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
A little off topic, but I think it's a shame Virgin don't run any services none stop anymore between Preston and London Euston. Surely it would be a good idea, to re time a couple of trains between Preston and London (and vice versa) none stop, when there's a Blackpool to Euston running shortly before/after the fast Scotland to London.

i.e. Scotland to Euston as now as far as Preston, then none stop to Euston.
Blackpool to Euston there to pick up Wigan/Warrington passengers.

From my experience on the old 1630, it was rarely more than half full.
 

driver_m

Established Member
Joined
8 Nov 2011
Messages
2,248
No. All have been done quicker than that. As long as 1R18 gets a clear run you could knock another 3 or 4 minutes off each .
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,840
Certainly suggests that there were no TSRs and whatever is infront of 1R18 at Stoke wasnt there.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,439
Location
Yorkshire
I have added text descriptions to comply with our forum rules regarding external content, principally for two reasons, firstly the links will expire soon, and secondly because it is difficult for some users to navigate to external sites and back again (especially blind people who have text read out using screen reader software).

Anyway they are quite impressive timings.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,692
Location
London
I'm not sure either. I seem to remember in the days of the 16:30 Euston to Glasgow running none stop to Preston, it sometimes managed to reach Preston for about 18:26/18:27 the odd time.

A little off topic, but I think it's a shame Virgin don't run any services none stop anymore between Preston and London Euston. Surely it would be a good idea, to re time a couple of trains between Preston and London (and vice versa) none stop, when there's a Blackpool to Euston running shortly before/after the fast Scotland to London.

i.e. Scotland to Euston as now as far as Preston, then none stop to Euston.
Blackpool to Euston there to pick up Wigan/Warrington passengers.

Admittedly southbound the timings wouldn't be great, because of the Blackpool to Euston being quite a lot slower than the equivalent Scotland to Euston, however, northbound, I think it would:

10:30 Euston to Glasgow Central arrive Preston 12:38- if ran none stop- possibly arrive 12:30.
10:36 Euston to Blackpool North- arrive Preston 12:57- only currently 13 minutes slower

When I saw this thread (before your post) I tried looking up that 1630 on rtt as I remember using it a few times a number of years back as iirc it was possible to do Euston to Glasgow in 4 hours with the single stop at Preston. Explains why I couldn't find it. I can only assume there was insufficient demand to pull it.
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,221
1R20 covering the distance between Crewe and Euston in 87.5 minutes isn't bad, but 86 minutes is common for the Glasgow fasts, 84 minutes happens occasionally, and I think I saw 83 minutes once. 82 must be the fastest possible.

When 1R18 can cover its journey in considerably less than 2 hours, I still question why it has been retimed to depart Manchester at 0658.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,760
Location
Wilmslow
When 1R18 can cover its journey in considerably less than 2 hours, I still question why it has been retimed to depart Manchester at 0658.

I think it's because timetables are constructed on top of rules which increasingly do not map well to reality.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,840
Nothing to do with that, it was to fit some Northern locals in around Piccadilly, Virgin have kicked off monumentally about being shoved back to 0658.
 

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
152
Looks like a very good morning! The 0700 ex Liverpool is a very fast & reliable runner - often gets to Euston a few minutes early and stands waiting for a platform.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Was on the 1630 yesterday from Carlisle , around 10 minutes late . Made up some time and arrived at Glasgow 6 minutes late . I thought there was more slack between Carlisle and Glasgow . Quite often a slow run from Newton into Glasgow
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
The Norton Bridge grade separation has had a major beneficial impact on WCML punctuality, even though there are no more trains bar the Blackpools.
A good way of checking WCML performance is to stand at Crewe and time the non-stop Glasgows each hour (xx59 Down, xx38 Up).
Often on time on the Down, but much less likely on the Up.
 

Agent_Squash

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2016
Messages
1,232
The Norton Bridge grade separation has had a major beneficial impact on WCML punctuality, even though there are no more trains bar the Blackpools.
A good way of checking WCML performance is to stand at Crewe and time the non-stop Glasgows each hour (xx59 Down, xx38 Up).
Often on time on the Down, but much less likely on the Up.

Using the non-stop Glasgow's regularly last year, it wasn't uncommon to arrive at Bank Quay very early (14/15E wasn't surprising!)
 

Up_Tilt_390

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2015
Messages
923
It seems the OP made a mistake, since it states that 1R20 left Wigan Wallgate 0709, when it should've been Wigan North Western. This is what was written on the diagram of RTT. Either way, the timings of the first two trains are impressive, but I'm not entirely surprised. But in the case of 1R18, was that the fastest Liverpool-London service on record? Sub-two hours I don't think has ever been documented.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Using the non-stop Glasgow's regularly last year, it wasn't uncommon to arrive at Bank Quay very early (14/15E wasn't surprising!)

14 minutes early Down direction? Sorry, don't believe that at all for the standard hour timing.

Did one back in January - arrived 1 early on the 1730 by averaging 107mph for the run. Save for a brief run on yellows at (I think) Colwich, could barely have been any more flat out.
 

Agent_Squash

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2016
Messages
1,232
14 minutes early Down direction? Sorry, don't believe that at all for the standard hour timing.

Did one back in January - arrived 1 early on the 1730 by averaging 107mph for the run. Save for a brief run on yellows at (I think) Colwich, could barely have been any more flat out.

It was during September/October last year, always ended up holding at Bank Quay for several minutes (14 twice) - I was surprised too, but it has happened.
 

driver_m

Established Member
Joined
8 Nov 2011
Messages
2,248
You'd need to cover about 65-70 miles in half an hour to get to Warrington in 90m. First hours journey usually gets you around Tamworth which is at the 110 milepost. (Dont know the exact mileage to Bank Quay as it changes to KM at Weaver.) So I'd hazard a guess that 15 early is nigh on impossible.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
RecentTrainTimes shows a maximum of 8-9 minutes early looking at the non-stop WBQ trains (only shows data after May though). Unless some extra allowances were added for engineering works or something?
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,221
Was it a Sunday? There's about 6 minutes' timetable padding on Sundays (trains still run at 125mph). Added to the early arrivals of between 4 and 9 minutes on clear runs (4 to 5 minutes is very frequent, 9 is rare but occasional), this could occasionally make 15 minutes.
 

Agent_Squash

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2016
Messages
1,232
Was it a Sunday? There's about 6 minutes' timetable padding on Sundays (trains still run at 125mph). Added to the early arrivals of between 4 and 9 minutes on clear runs (4 to 5 minutes is very frequent, 9 is rare but occasional), this could occasionally make 15 minutes.
Both trips were on a Sunday - I've not had better than 7E on a weekday.
 

cambsy

On Moderation
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Messages
896
I have done it in 98 minutes London - Warrington and similar into London, left Warrington few mins late, arrived London early.

Been through Crewe in 84 mins from London and again similar into London.

I have averaged 113-114mph Between Stafford and Watford non-stop when done in just about an hour on the 18.47 Liverpool-Euston; this section I think has highest booked average speed on the WCML.

Stafford-Watford Jct 63 mins, possible in just about an hour if you get a good run.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I have averaged 113-114mph Between Stafford and Watford non-stop when done in just about an hour on the 18.47 Liverpool-Euston; this section I think has highest booked average speed on the WCML.

At one point that was the fastest booked start-stop on the network. Jostles with the evening York-Stevenage non-stop.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top