First Class Host restricting food...

I'm on the WCML Virgin service boarding at Preston. After Warrington the Host comes by with the food trolley shouting "Any passengers traveling past Wolverhampton?"

I order some food, and she asks me where I'm going. As it happens I am travelling past Wolverhampton, but why should that matter to her?

Am I not entitled to food between Preston and wolves? I started off at Lancaster actuallys it happens, but it could equally as well as been Barrow or even further North.
I've never encountered this sort of rationing before.

Blinkbonny said:

I'm on the WCML Virgin service boarding at Preston. After Warrington the Host comes by with the food trolley shouting "Any passengers traveling past Wolverhampton?"

I order some food, and she asks me where I'm going. As it happens I am travelling past Wolverhampton, but why should that matter to her?

Am I not entitled to food between Preston and wolves? I started off at Lancaster actuallys it happens, but it could equally as well as been Barrow or even further North.
I've never encountered this sort of rationing before.

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Is it not to ensure that those getting off before Wolves are attended to first?

Many TOCs only allow food for passengers travelling over a certain length of journey. On XC for example you have to be travelling over 50 minutes for sandwiches/panini, and 90 minutes (on trains which offer it) for a hot meal. Virgin may do similar? Perhaps a more tactful way of policing this would be to check passengers tickets as they take their order, however it achieves the same aim.

Mag_seven said:

Is it not to ensure that those getting off before Wolves are attended to first?

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I'd go with that too. You don't want to arrive at Wolverhampton when you're only half way through your food.

But in that case she should come through first shouting anybody getting off at Wolverhampton?

Not vice versa.

I would expect that she'll be going through taking orders for those going beyond Wolverhampton so that they can start to get prepared, and can then do another pass once orders have been taken dishing out snacks (and not full meals) to those getting off at Crewe or Wolverhampton if necessary. After Warrington, it is 53 minutes to Wolverhampton and 1 hour 4 minutes to Sandwell & Dudley - so it seems to be a 1 hour cut off for a 'full' meal service, which seems reasonable given that it'll take some time for it to be sent to the kitchen, prepared, served and consumed, especially if the kitchen is busy and there is only one host serving.

I think that is right as going North there is no food if travelling to Milton Keynes. From memory the selection is limited if going to Rugby. Full service from Coventry Northbound but as a regular to Coventry it can be a rush to eat it all, particularly if they don't take the orders until past Milton Keynes. So I try and avoid trains which stop at Milton Keynes!

Has anyone been restricted from food or not?

Generally I find VTWC restrict food by limiting the frequency with which they pass through the train, so it can be something of a lottery if you board the train anywhere other than the origin. Is there a supposed to be a uniform service provision, e.g. meals served leaving London and Preston Northbound, and Glasgow, Preston, Liverpool and Manchester Southbound? With perhaps additional drinks runs starting when the train passes (at a guess) Carlisle and Rugby.

Another annoyance is that the food service is dictated by time of departure at the origin, so a passenger boarding at Preston Northbound at around 6pm will be offered an afternoon snack which always seems ridiculous.

Class83 said:

Generally I find VTWC restrict food by limiting the frequency with which they pass through the train, so it can be something of a lottery if you board the train anywhere other than the origin. Is there a supposed to be a uniform service provision, e.g. meals served leaving London and Preston Northbound, and Glasgow, Preston, Liverpool and Manchester Southbound? With perhaps additional drinks runs starting when the train passes (at a guess) Carlisle and Rugby.

Another annoyance is that the food service is dictated by time of departure at the origin, so a passenger boarding at Preston Northbound at around 6pm will be offered an afternoon snack which always seems ridiculous.

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On Virgin from Glasgow you will get your breakfast before Carlisle , loads of time ! Then the Carlisle passengers will get served . After Preston i was served a sandwich. Was a while back though .
Last month i took LNER from Glasgow to Newcastle , served and finished brekkie before Haymarket , after Edinburgh , brekkie was served to Edinburgh passengers , tea /coffee was only offered . For the juice or bottled water you often have to ask they push the tea /coffee. Surprised the LNER service has catering from Glasgow .
Been about 10 years since i done 1st class from Preston NB , i remember not much being offered . Heard a few reports this has changed though.

I travelled from Edinburgh to York late morning on East Coast First Class back in the day.

I was happily supplied with coffee and juice for the leg to Newcastle.

On departure from Newcastle they came along asking for lunch orders. I asked very politely that if I ordered lunch now, would it arrive in time for me to finish it before York? I was a bit taken aback by the aggressive response.

She said 'East Coast have a policy of not serving food to passengers travelling for less than 70 minutes'.

I said 'But I got on at Edinburgh'.

She said 'I didn't know that you got on at Edinburgh'.

I nearly said 'and I didn't know that you were going to be an officious little twerp', but I preferred to have my lunch served 10 minutes later.

This is all very interesting to me, and I thank you for your input.

As regards my original post I failed to make it clear it was around 5pm and no hot meal was being served. If she'd been taking orders for a hot meal I could have understood. It was just the cold afternoon trolley to which my imaginary friend from Barrow was being denied access. She was dishing out as she went along, and when I asked for a salad box and crisps I was asked quite aggressively where I was travelling to. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to reply "Wolverhampton" and see what happened. Though I was in little doubt that I'd have been denied it - for whatever reason I don't know! We were just leaving Warrington at the time. Plenty of time to eat their fairly limited afternoon offering, especially with Crewe intervening.

Though it gets better (or worse, if you're my imaginary friend!) It was the Glasgow - Euston train limited stop through the West Midlands. We were delayed at Crewe, and as we left the platforms the Guard announced that we would be adding in a a further unscheduled stop at Stafford. No biggie, you might think - but they then went on to announce that at Stafford we would not just be stopping, but also undertaking a "set-swap." Everybody on our train had to get off and change over to another train set, whilst the passengers off that train crossed over and got onto ours! Chaos. And by now my notional Black Country comrade is not only hungry but twenty minutes late arriving at his destination!

I don't understand the scenario, and I'm fully aware of the argument that it's all "complimentary" so you're entitled to Nothing. But I've never seen this arbitrary distinction being made before - apparently purely on the whim of the attendant.

I know crosscountry specify a journey time on their site now for food options. I suppose the issue is that unlike an airline where you are all going from A to B, many trains now go A to Z with all sorts of options in between. I have used Euston to Glasgow and Kings Cross to Aberdeen and initially its easy as both trains are non stop for at least 2 hours so its a no brainer. Its what happens after that and with a 7 hour trip to Aberdeen, is one serving enough. To be honest it seems its the catering crew attitude that makes the difference, heading north to Aberdeen it was really a case of if you are hungry/thirsty just ask, north of Edinburgh it was akin to a club atmosphere as after each stop the trolley would appear with the attitude of I have it, do you want it as it will only be ditched when we arrive, at no point did anyone ask where we had got on or where we were going. I had one poor southbound experience where insufficient crew was on the Aberdeen to Edinburgh leg so the breakfast was just tea and a bun. After Edinburgh the next crew adopted the position that they would only serve meals to Edinburgh passengers until we politely explained the situation and begrudgingly got a sausage roll. Service heading south on that train was very much of the you had your snack, you cant have another attitude as they would ask where you joined etc. Virgins response to the complaint I put in was that food/drink is complimentary so is not paid for as part of the ticket price so if there isn't any, then tough luck (obviously that's how I read it !). That may be OK on a short hop but 7 hours from Aberdeen without much food was pushing it a bit given the glitzy 1st class pages on the website. Does Virgin west coast or LNER now specify length of journey needed to partake in food offerings, I just did a 1st class enquiry on national rail for York to Darlington (28 min journey) and the little knife and fork icon says "meal included for 1st class passengers" for the LNER service although it might be a bit rushed.
In response to Jfisher21, I have used the Euston to Chester routes and both times breakfast rolls were served upon departure, even for those just going to Milton Keynes

DackandBlecker said:

Has anyone been restricted from food or not?

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I was wondering the same thing, but I cannot see that was the case. Looking at a later post from the OP it seems they had an imaginary friend that it could have happened to, or if they had answered Wolverhampton it would have happened, their mind was already made up.

If you leave Glasgow in the morning you will get breakfast and after Preston a sandwich . Not sure how it works later or dinner services.

Graham H said:

Does Virgin west coast or LNER now specify length of journey needed to partake in food offerings

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Journeys have to be longer than 70 minutes for full catering although they claim to serve a reduced offering for shorter trips.

Peterborough - London and vice versa is most puzzling. On a recent early evening train Peterborough - Kings Cross I was offered sandwiches, cake, crisps, fruit, tea / coffee / beer etc. without asking. And yet on exactly the same train the following week nothing. When I asked I was advised no food was provided on such a short journey - I then explained what had happened the previous week and was told that the other staff were wrong to have offered me anything and they'd report the error! However, on both return northbound services (exact same trains again) in the early mornings a hot breakfast was offered without question as to where I was going.

Back in 2013, I did the WAG express a number of times in first class. Full english breakfast would be in my stomach by Wrexham. Going the other way, full 3-course meal would be in my stomach between Shrewsbury and Chester. They didnt seem stingy at all and were more than happy to serve you! Even taking the evening order on the morning train!

47271 said:

...I was a bit taken aback by the aggressive response.

She said 'East Coast have a policy of not serving food to passengers travelling for less than 70 minutes'.

I said 'But I got on at Edinburgh'.

She said 'I didn't know that you got on at Edinburgh'..

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Yep, some of them are like that. Fortunately they are in a minority. I do think the company should do a bit of 'mystery shopping' to identify those who really are not suited to customer-focussed roles though.

ATW Alex 101 said:

Back in 2013, I did the WAG express a number of times in first class. Full english breakfast would be in my stomach by Wrexham. Going the other way, full 3-course meal would be in my stomach between Shrewsbury and Chester. They didnt seem stingy at all and were more than happy to serve you! Even taking the evening order on the morning train!

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The ATW premier service is a completely different matter; there is no way any of the staff will be anything other than happy to serve you.

There is no way LNER would ever reach such levels of consistency.

Graham H said:

In response to Jfisher21, I have used the Euston to Chester routes and both times breakfast rolls were served upon departure, even for those just going to Milton Keynes

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I'm surprised they offered breakfast rolls to passengers alighting at Milton Keynes, as their menus state (or at least certainly did) that passengers travelling between Euston and Milton Keynes Central and vice versa will only be offered tea and coffee. (giving me the impression that passengers travelling say northbound from Euston to Chester, in your scenario, would have to wait until at least for the Super Voyager to leave Milton Keynes before being offered food/alcohol.)

I'm not surprised. Sometimes it's easier just to offer it to everyone, especially if they have the stock, rather than ask each passenger where they are alighting.

Very enjoyable journey today on GWR between Reading and Hereford. Granted there were only half a dozen people in 1st, but the host with the trolley was up and down a good seven or eight times, dispensing hot drinks and snacks, including packs of sandwiches. No restriction on how many cakes etc. you wanted, just ask and it is given graciously with a fresh paper napkin. I know it's not the same as on a service that is meant to serve hot meals, but it is worthy of a mention just because they are so obliging and really do treat customers as VIPs.

trainophile said:

Very enjoyable journey today on GWR between Reading and Hereford. Granted there were only half a dozen people in 1st, but the host with the trolley was up and down a good seven or eight times, dispensing hot drinks and snacks, including packs of sandwiches. No restriction on how many cakes etc. you wanted, just ask and it is given graciously with a fresh paper napkin. I know it's not the same as on a service that is meant to serve hot meals, but it is worthy of a mention just because they are so obliging and really do treat customers as VIPs.

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If only they did free alcohol (apart from the odd vino spurges) !!!

Blinkbonny said:

But in that case she should come through first shouting anybody getting off at Wolverhampton?

Not vice versa.

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Exactly. On a busy train it should be people getting off soon asked -
If the train is quiet, just take everyone's order and note where they are travelling to.

voyagerdude220 said:

I'm surprised they offered breakfast rolls to passengers alighting at Milton Keynes, as their menus state (or at least certainly did) that passengers travelling between Euston and Milton Keynes Central and vice versa will only be offered tea and coffee. (giving me the impression that passengers travelling say northbound from Euston to Chester, in your scenario, would have to wait until at least for the Super Voyager to leave Milton Keynes before being offered food/alcohol.)

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I spent last week around GB on a BritRail pass. Some thoughts on catering

LNER (4 x HST)
Excellent and the best catering experience and never any sense of stinginess. Good menu, fresh items and a general sense of a welcome
Train preparation at Leeds in the morning is very rushed and you were certainly made to feel like you were in the way.
06:40 departed (on time) with a woman screaming - I couldn't do 4 tables Gerry, sorry! She'd spent the previous 10 minutes banging and clattering everything she could possibly find!

Hull Trains (1 x 180)
Only one trip with Hull trains, had a bowl of cereal - but it was well loaded and the staff were great. I think open access might give then the edge

Virgin Trains (4 x 390 and 1 x 221)
Great happy staff ex Liverpool, my breakfast served to me by the chef
Staff on other trains were patchy and the food options seem pared down to fit. Although 2 runs with alcohol were made on the 14:30 Euston to Glasgow between Euston and Warrington.

Cross Country (2 x 220/1)
Cross Country are the only operator that I notice the host checks you have a 1st class ticket. (consistent with previous trips) On all other operators the catering staff served food and drink without ever asking if I had a 1st class ticket or checking it.

Trans Pennine Express (3 X 185)
Very happy staff, always a great welcome. Nibbles are OK

voyagerdude220 said:

I'm surprised they offered breakfast rolls to passengers alighting at Milton Keynes, as their menus state (or at least certainly did) that passengers travelling between Euston and Milton Keynes Central and vice versa will only be offered tea and coffee. (giving me the impression that passengers travelling say northbound from Euston to Chester, in your scenario, would have to wait until at least for the Super Voyager to leave Milton Keynes before being offered food/alcohol.)

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No, we were all asked if we wanted something and no check made on where we were travelling to. I suppose on a voyager there is a much smaller 1st class section than a pendolino so maybe its more an issue of how long it would take to serve.

The MKC thing is because VTWC don't set the fares so can't artificially inflate them to pay for the food.