When Will Embsay Railway Get The Missing Link Into Skipton?

Jonathan1990 · 14 Feb 2018

When I visited last summer they had a photograph somewhere showing an incomplete connection to a goods line that runs into Skipton Railway Station from the line that leads to Embasy. I can't remember if the information said how much it would fund to do it. That seemed like they are only 1 track piece short.

RailUK Forums

aylesbury · 14 Feb 2018

I can remember Quainton Centre Bucks being quoted £10000 in the seventies for connection think its over half a million now and will not happen due to the EWR work and new services to MK.

pdeaves · 15 Feb 2018

One piece of track, maybe, but it's the signalling/control that makes it complicated and expensive.

By the way, it's 'Embsay', not Embasy

A0wen · 15 Feb 2018

If you look on Google earth you can see the piece in question - it's the last bit before it joins the goods line. Looks like it would also need pointwork and signalling as well as NR agreement to use the line as well as some form of platform at Skipton.

Never say never - but unlikely to be cheap.

DarloRich · 15 Feb 2018

Jonathan1990 said:
When I visited last summer they had a photograph somewhere showing an incomplete connection to a goods line that runs into Skipton Railway Station from the line that leads to Embasy. I can't remember if the information said how much it would fund to do it. That seemed like they are only 1 track piece short.

It is the signalling onto the main line that is both expensive and difficult to arrange. An inch is as good as a mile in these circumstances.

Spartacus · 15 Feb 2018

I believe that the current preferred solution is to reinstate the line all the way to Skipton and slew the Rylstone branch over, so that no physical connection to NR needs to be made, although there's one or two bridges down to Skipton that have been replaced by single track ones, and I think Haw Bank tunnel would need digging out too.

Allwinter_Kit · 15 Feb 2018

The platform at Skipton is still there though, and the underpass to it is fine - currently it is rather bizarrely used to store chairs (amongst other general 'stuff') as I recall. Obviously it'll need some work but it is still extant etc.

But yes. It's the final 12m of track or so as I understand it, but the real issue is the combining with the 'proper' network - Although if NYMR manage it it can be done!

Chester1 · 16 Feb 2018

Spartacus said:
I believe that the current preferred solution is to reinstate the line all the way to Skipton and slew the Rylstone branch over, so that no physical connection to NR needs to be made, although there's one or two bridges down to Skipton that have been replaced by single track ones, and I think Haw Bank tunnel would need digging out too.

Any chance of using the branch for heritage services? That sounds enormously expensive compared with handing over the whole thing at weekends with a single train operating. Would any of the rest of the freight branch appeal to passengers?

Spartacus · 17 Feb 2018

Chester1 said:
Any chance of using the branch for heritage services? That sounds enormously expensive compared with handing over the whole thing at weekends with a single train operating. Would any of the rest of the freight branch appeal to passengers?

Not really, there's booked freight services on Saturdays and even some Sundays see trains, there's one booked up tomorrow, and there'd still be a lot of work to do at the Skipton end for passengers to use it

STEVIEBOY1 · 17 Feb 2018

It would be good if it could be done, need a magic wand to get the money and work done though I think.

Spartacus · 17 Feb 2018

I think it's been proposed that a lot of the work could be done the next time the track is relaid, which would probably be sooner than waiting for the funds for the Embsay to pay for it themselves, and cost very little on top of normal work, it's just a couple of short bridges that would need to be reinstated for double track and the tunnel trackbed lowering to again give gauge clearance for double track that might cost a bit.

Ploughman · 17 Feb 2018

Spartacus said:
I think it's been proposed that a lot of the work could be done the next time the track is relaid, which would probably be sooner than waiting for the funds for the Embsay to pay for it themselves, and cost very little on top of normal work, it's just a couple of short bridges that would need to be reinstated for double track and the tunnel trackbed lowering to again give gauge clearance for double track that might cost a bit.

Much of the branch from Skipton all the way up to the quarry has been relaid during the 90's.
That includes from the platform in Skipton past Embsay junction.
Unlikely that it will need any major attention for a good few years yet.

alexl92 · 17 Feb 2018

I understood that the Embsay branch platforms at Skipton would need rebuilding if they were to be brought back into passenger use, but I don’t know to what extent.

As an aside, I visited this line last year and was quite disappointed by how little there was to do or see at either station aside from a cafe, tiny shop at Embsay and whatever rolling stock happened to be in view. A visitor-accessible engine/rolling stock shed, visitor centre or display with history about the line at Embsay particularly would have been an asset. I know BA has a minute railway operating some days which is great.

I think the Skipton link could be key for this line in future.

xotGD · 18 Feb 2018

alexl92 said:
I understood that the Embsay branch platforms at Skipton would need rebuilding if they were to be brought back into passenger use, but I don’t know to what extent.

As an aside, I visited this line last year and was quite disappointed by how little there was to do or see at either station aside from a cafe, tiny shop at Embsay and whatever rolling stock happened to be in view. A visitor-accessible engine/rolling stock shed, visitor centre or display with history about the line at Embsay particularly would have been an asset. I know BA has a minute railway operating some days which is great.

I think the Skipton link could be key for this line in future.

So apart from the cafes, the shops, the miniature railway, the locomotives and rolling stock to look at and photograph, the nature reserve next to BA station, the ruins of the Abbey to visit and a pub within walking distance of each station there isn't much to do except for having a ride behind a steam loco while enjoying an afternoon tea or a couple of bottles of local ale.

I'm probably biassed because it's my local preserved line, but I think it is a great operation. Extending into Skipton would be the icing on the cake.

sycamores · 18 Feb 2018

Spartacus said:
I believe that the current preferred solution is to reinstate the line all the way to Skipton and slew the Rylstone branch over, so that no physical connection to NR needs to be made, although there's one or two bridges down to Skipton that have been replaced by single track ones, and I think Haw Bank tunnel would need digging out too.

Not sure where you heard that little gem?

Sadly when the A59 bridge / tunnel over the current Rylstone branch was built (in c1981?) it was only built as single track, otherwise all other structures, including Haw Bank tunnel are to the original double track formation.

alexl92 said:
I understood that the Embsay branch platforms at Skipton would need rebuilding if they were to be brought back into passenger use, but I don’t know to what extent.

Not so much a rebuild, more realign (if that), and clearance. Unlikely that the Skipton run-round loop would be re-instated through platform 6 (especially as this would involve two more points on NR infrastructure) but you never know - one step at a time! I suspect T&T working as per Peak Rail, or DMU would be the immediate viable option, once the little issue of 12m of track, a point (and trap) and a few million pounds of funding is overcome!!!

alexl92 · 18 Feb 2018

xotGD said:
So apart from the cafes, the shops, the miniature railway, the locomotives and rolling stock to look at and photograph, the nature reserve next to BA station, the ruins of the Abbey to visit and a pub within walking distance of each station there isn't much to do except for having a ride behind a steam loco while enjoying an afternoon tea or a couple of bottles of local ale.

I'm probably biassed because it's my local preserved line, but I think it is a great operation. Extending into Skipton would be the icing on the cake.

The shops have very minimal stock, cafes are great if you want refreshment so not knocking them, Minature Railway is mainly for kids and the Abbey is a fairly long walk from the station. I have to confess that I didn’t know there was a nature reserve there. I was there with my girlfriend, who is not an enthusiast, last August and with a wait between trains there was very little to do or see there.

Please don’t misunderstand me - I am all for this railway and loved visiting as a kid. But for my first visit as an adult after many years, I was a little disappointed. I do wish them all the best though.

47434 · 5 Mar 2018

I think this will be one of the shortest stretches to connect in the UK but one which, barring a magic money fairy, will never happen.

It is great that the Rhylstone Branch is seeing more traffic but that also won't help the cause.

sycamores · 10 Mar 2018

47434 said:
I think this will be one of the shortest stretches to connect in the UK but one which, barring a magic money fairy, will never happen.

It is great that the Rhylstone Branch is seeing more traffic but that also won't help the cause.

hence the high cost of signalling the branch from York!

433N · 21 Aug 2018

alexl92 said:
As an aside, I visited this line last year and was quite disappointed by how little there was to do or see at either station aside from a cafe, tiny shop at Embsay and whatever rolling stock happened to be in view. A visitor-accessible engine/rolling stock shed, visitor centre or display with history about the line at Embsay particularly would have been an asset. I know BA has a minute railway operating some days which is great.
I think the Skipton link could be key for this line in future.

alexl92 said:
The shops have very minimal stock, cafes are great if you want refreshment so not knocking them, Minature Railway is mainly for kids and the Abbey is a fairly long walk from the station. I have to confess that I didn’t know there was a nature reserve there. I was there with my girlfriend, who is not an enthusiast, last August and with a wait between trains there was very little to do or see there.

Please don’t misunderstand me - I am all for this railway and loved visiting as a kid. But for my first visit as an adult after many years, I was a little disappointed. I do wish them all the best though.

I visited recently and agree whole-heartedly with both these observations and sentiments; although I'm loathe to put a negative review on TripAdvisor.

On arrival, we were pretty well jumped on and asked if we wanted tickets and, taking our time to answer, were told that we'd need a platform ticket to go on the platform if not (apparently on the assumption that we missed the numerous signs saying this). It got our visit off to a bad start and there was no way my wife was going on the railway afterwards and she was distinctly unimpressed with both this and the general omissions pointed out by alexl92. I understand that they are strapped for cash, but we are quite willing to support any heritage railway that we visit ; we don't need a hard sell.

On the subject of 'a visitor-accessible engine/rolling stock shed' , I do think this is a big omission. I understand that there are many H&S issues with allowing the public to walk around but there was a big sign saying that the shed had been funded by the EU. So you take public money but don't acknowledge this by allowing some form of public 'access' (not necessarily physical). I'm surprised that the EU tolerates such a thing because in my experience, such grants require clear public engagement in the facility.

I'm also puzzled as to why the 'Embsay and Bolton Abbey Steam Railway' has a 37 ... and a couple of 31s, a 47 and a 14 hanging around (although I think some may be privately owned).

I think a link to Skipton is the only hope for survival of this railway TBH (with decreasing resources and volunteers generally), but then you do ask yourself who would visit the Embsay and Bolton Abbey over the Keighley and Worth Valley with only 2 intermediate stops on the big railway. Furthermore, the accomodation where I stayed had no information on it but did advertise the Wensleydale railway. I can't help but feel that the market might be saturated in this area. I just can't see the economic case by which the high costs would be justified.

sycamores · 21 Aug 2018

433N said:
I visited recently and agree whole-heartedly with both these observations and sentiments; although I'm loathe to put a negative review on TripAdvisor.

On arrival, we were pretty well jumped on and asked if we wanted tickets and, taking our time to answer, were told that we'd need a platform ticket to go on the platform if not (apparently on the assumption that we missed the numerous signs saying this). It got our visit off to a bad start and there was no way my wife was going on the railway afterwards and she was distinctly unimpressed with both this and the general omissions pointed out by alexl92. I understand that they are strapped for cash, but we are quite willing to support any heritage railway that we visit ; we don't need a hard sell.

On the subject of 'a visitor-accessible engine/rolling stock shed' , I do think this is a big omission. I understand that there are many H&S issues with allowing the public to walk around but there was a big sign saying that the shed had been funded by the EU. So you take public money but don't acknowledge this by allowing some form of public 'access' (not necessarily physical). I'm surprised that the EU tolerates such a thing because in my experience, such grants require clear public engagement in the facility.

I'm also puzzled as to why the 'Embsay and Bolton Abbey Steam Railway' has a 37 ... and a couple of 31s, a 47 and a 14 hanging around (although I think some may be privately owned).

I think a link to Skipton is the only hope for survival of this railway TBH (with decreasing resources and volunteers generally), but then you do ask yourself who would visit the Embsay and Bolton Abbey over the Keighley and Worth Valley with only 2 intermediate stops on the big railway. Furthermore, the accomodation where I stayed had no information on it but did advertise the Wensleydale railway. I can't help but feel that the market might be saturated in this area. I just can't see the economic case by which the high costs would be justified.

wow! So many pointless questions from an anonymous (uninformed) source - not sure which, if any, I can actually be bothered to answer!!!

However, perhaps there is a reason Embsay (not EMBASY as per the thread title!) volunteers no longer post on here (or even on the major forums for that matter...), and now there is one less!

will

Shenandoah · 21 Aug 2018

What an odd reply to 433N. Also from someone anonymous it would appear. :lol:

Instead of taking umbrage might answers to the questions put the railway in a better light? As it is, those who are unfamiliar with it and I am sure that means many on this board, still probably believe that the comments by 433N portray the line correctly. A simple 'sorry you had a bad day at our railway' and a few answers would go a long way to encourage another visit by 433N and his family. It does seem, from your reply that the volunteers retreat to the trenches when adverse comments are made.

sycamores · 21 Aug 2018

Shenandoah said:
What an odd reply to 433N. Also from someone anonymous it would appear.
Instead of taking umbrage might answers to the questions put the railway in a better light? As it is, those who are unfamiliar with it and I am sure that means means on this board, still probably believe that the comments by 433N portray the line correctly. A simple 'sorry you had a bad day at our railway' and a few answers would go a long way to encourage another visit by 433N and his family. It does see, from your reply that the volunteers retreat to the trenches when adverse comments are made.

Apart from my name appearing at the bottom of my reply... (sorry If you were confused by the absence of a capital 'W' however!) I can't speak for (or apologise on behalf of) the Embsay railway in any official capacity (or other volunteers for that matter), but perhaps if the anonymous '433N' had asked questions rather than just coming out with (uninformed) random adverse comments, then I may have be more willing to reply - as I have done previously.

PS: I wasn't aware that I had been 'taking umbrage' as I have never been offended or angered by anything posted anonymously on an internet forum

Anyhow, back to my trench now!!!

WILL

MAV39 · 21 Aug 2018

Don't know why you repeatedly label 433N's post as 'uninformed'. He visited and posted his views in a pretty polite fashion.

I can only agree with Shenandoah, what an odd response.

433N · 21 Aug 2018

I'm just relating my experience as an 'anonymous and uninformed' punter ; they can be used or ignored as you wish.

As a rail enthusiast, I wish the railway nothing but the best of British.

sycamores · 21 Aug 2018

G'night all, if you have any further questions, find us on WNXX Forum, the home of sensible debate

Will

Shenandoah · 22 Aug 2018

I believe 433N's post was quite a moderate one and he did say he was reluctant (he used the word loathe) to give a negative report on Trip Advisor. With bad attitude as a reply many would feel quite they a negative post on Trip Advisor warranted. Maybe the railway should consider the attitude of some of their volunteers towards their paying public. Joe public help pay the bills!!
As far as the other Forum is concerned well. if you are only interested in diesels then Embsay thread might be interesting.

Malcmal · 22 Aug 2018

sycamores said:
G'night all, if you have any further questions, find us on WNXX Forum, the home of sensible debate

Will

So we can assume that you don't post there with the same crappy attitude that you do here??!! Otherwise the "home of sensible debate" aspect is trashed straight away.

I hope other members of the Embsay railway are aware of this thread and take corrective action - whatever that might be. If I was in their shoes a strong warning would be coming your direction followed by ejection from the organisation if this was not heeded.

JayDee · 24 Aug 2018

God what an utterly rotten attitude to a polite, if critical, review.

If that's the standard of the volunteers there, glad I've never been!

alexl92 · 24 Aug 2018

Will, I’m pretty astonished by your rather immature response. On a public forum, everyone has their right to their views. I’ve had mine criticised many times even on here, but I choose not to get offended, and to learn from it.

Whatever you think of the E&BASR as a volunteer or member as you presumably are, if visitors (the railway’s main purpose for existing) are offering the opinion of 433N, then maybe the railway needs to take a look in the mirror, because if visitors don’t find it interesting, they won’t come back. 20 minutes each way on a steam train with very little else on offer isn’t much good when anyone who doesn’t live in the Skipton or Grassington area will have travelled nearly double that to get there.

Finally, different heritage railways get slammed on here all the time. Wensleydale for example has taken a hell of a battering from many (including me) over the last 18 months on these pages but the operators are working really hard now to transform it, and the opinions expressed here mor recently have reflected that. It’s not just a forum-wide vendetta against your railway.

As I said before, please don’t misunderstand me: I want this to be fantastic attraction. I have so many happy memories of days at Embsay as a kid. I want to feel excit3d to go back, but right now it just isn’t like that. I do wish them all the very best however.

Malcmal · 24 Aug 2018

I actually made the effort to private message the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Steam Railway official Facebook page with the following:

"Hi there. Just thought I would send you a link to this forum thread where a guy calling himself Will and claiming to be a volunteer in your organisation isn't doing very much for your public relations"

And then I copied the link to this thread. It was read yesterday morning but I didn't hear anything back - not that I was really expecting to.

Then it occurred to me that Keighley is only 12 miles away - so anyone looking for a bit of nostalgia should probably head in that direction.

https://kwvr.co.uk/

When Will Embsay Railway Get The Missing Link Into Skipton?

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