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Loco Hauled trains in Scotland

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MatthewRead

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Does anyone remember when class 47's operated on Scotrail when did it cease I thought it was when the 170's were introduced.
 
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Scotrail84

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Does anyone remember when class 47's operated on Scotrail when did it cease I thought it was when the 170's were introduced.


Push pulls went in about 1990/91 on the E and G services when the 158s started, I'm sure the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Aberdeen and Inverness services lingered on to about 1992/93 but I'm sure someone on here will be able to confirm. I think issues with the 156s up North kept the loco hauled 47s with DBSO's going that bit longer on the long distance services.

They were almost certainly gone long before 170s were even a prototype.
 

RLBH

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I've never quite been sure whether I actually remember LHCS on the routes out of Inverness, or whether I've just imagined it based on old pictures and the knowledge that it stopped in the early 1990s. Certainly I remember getting on the Highland Chieftain when it was still InterCity liveried, but that would have lasted a bit longer....

When did the Class 47s come in on the Central Belt to Aberdeen & Inverness routes? What haulage was used between Aberdeen and Inverness after the Class 120s were replaced by LHCS?
 

GusB

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IWhat haulage was used between Aberdeen and Inverness after the Class 120s were replaced by LHCS?
I can't remember the exact timeline, but classes 26 and 27 ran in the early 80s, then it went over to 37 and 47.
 

sprinterguy

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The DBSOs on the Edinburgh - Glasgow and Aberdeen routes were transferred away to the London - Norwich route in May 1990, so that was the end of Scottish class 47 push-pull operation. The class 158s began to enter service with Scotrail in September 1990, initially on the Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Aberdeen routes. Class 156s deputised on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route for a few months following the cessation of push-pull working.

The 1991 Platform 5 Combined Volume, which more accurately depicts the situation in late 1990 prior to publication, shows that at that time 158701 - 733 had been delivered to Haymarket depot, while all the class 47/7s had been transferred away from Scotland, and many had already gained Network Southeast livery by this time. At the same time the former Scotrail air-con mark 2 and mark 3 stock previously used in the push-pull sets had already been transferred to the Intercity business, in the Crosscountry and West Coast sectors respectively.

From 1990 - 1992 Inverness depot operated a small and unreliable fleet of class "47/6s" with an increased ETH index (For working the Inverness sleeper), numbered 47671 - 677, which worked some daytime services on the Highland main line. From 1992 class 37s took over on this route (Including in pairs with a generator car on the sleeper), and Inverness - Aberdeen, and remained in use into 1994.
 

Taunton

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Until the 47/7 came to the Push-Pull in 1980 there were no Class 47 allocated in Scotland. However, there were plenty around, operated from depots south of the border on extended diagrams. Glasgow-Aberdeen and Inverness were commonly Crewe locos, and Edinburgh-Aberdeen were ECML locos, many from Gateshead. Crewe locos even turned up on Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Carlisle and Glasgow-Stranraer services.
 

Far north 37

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I've never quite been sure whether I actually remember LHCS on the routes out of Inverness, or whether I've just imagined it based on old pictures and the knowledge that it stopped in the early 1990s. Certainly I remember getting on the Highland Chieftain when it was still InterCity liveried, but that would have lasted a bit longer....

When did the Class 47s come in on the Central Belt to Aberdeen & Inverness routes? What haulage was used between Aberdeen and Inverness after the Class 120s were replaced by LHCS?
A fleet of class 27s was transferred to inverness in the early 80s to take over from the dmus till the mid 80s till they were replaced by class 47s.
But in those days a 26 37 or 47 could turn up also.
 

Far north 37

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Does anyone remember when class 47's operated on Scotrail when did it cease I thought it was when the 170's were introduced.
Class 47s were replaced mainly by the class 158 express units in the very early 90s on most of the routes they worked.
I can remember the inverness based 47/6s working daytime trains till about 1993 after they were replaced by class 37s on the sleepers the year before.
 

Scotrail84

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47's lingered on the Aberdeen sleepier well into the 90s IIRC,quite often a RES liveried loco then 67s took over
 

Far north 37

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47's lingered on the Aberdeen sleepier well into the 90s IIRC,quite often a RES liveried loco then 67s took over
Yes they took over the sleepers again in 1995 when ews took over all locos and redeployed them instead of the class 37s which they worked till as you said the class 67s took over around 2001.
There was a dedicated pool of ex res class 47/7s based at motherwell for the sleeper work but they were often used on freights from inverness and aberdeen during the day.
 

Highlandspring

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Over many years of observation I only ever saw a sleeper pool 47 work 6E43 Aberdeen Guild Street - Doncaster Belmont once, it was typically a pair of 37s or a 56. It (and its companion train 6S62 Doncaster - Aberdeen Guild Street) did sometimes run with a 47 dead inside when there was a failure on the sleeper.

In any case the answer to the original question has already been given above, the daytime loco hauled passenger trains on the Highland Main Line and Aberdeen Inverness line finished in 1993/1994.
 

QJ

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When I first visited Scotland's railways in August 1975 (a Scottish Region railrover for track bashing and depot visits) there were already class 47s allocated to ED and HA working internal Scottish passenger services as well as Anglo Scottish trains to and from Mossend, Carstairs - Edinburgh portions and along the ECML (unfortunately for my preferred taste in loco haulage. I was travelling with a group so couldn't seek alternative options).

My first experience of the internal overnight on 03/08/75 from Glasgow to Inverness was headed by Eastfield based 47211. Top and tail class 27s were still in charge of the Edinburgh Glasgow shuttles then. So were class 24s and there were still a number of stored Claytons to be seen too. No 47/7s around to spoil the fun.

When I caught the Stranraer overnight on 08/08 47270, at the time allocated to HA, was the motive power. There was a batch of ETS fitted 47s allocated to HA at the time too; 47516 being turned out for the 10:30 Aberdeen to the Cross from Waverley on 07/08 (516 had replaced 47440 which was allocated to Bescot at the time).

Bespite the unavoidable brush with my least favourite class of diesel it was still happy days. I got my one and only Scottish class 24 haulage on that trip and had a detour via Alston (not realising the line was about to close. The opportunity presented itself because of the derailment at Weaver Junction). My one and only class 50 haulage in Scotland was also enjoyed. On the way home I got one for haulage to Liverpool too (from Crewe via Chester) but that is another story.

Andy
 

GusB

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Over many years of observation I only ever saw a sleeper pool 47 work 6E43 Aberdeen Guild Street - Doncaster Belmont once, it was typically a pair of 37s or a 56. It (and its companion train 6S62 Doncaster - Aberdeen Guild Street) did sometimes run with a 47 dead inside when there was a failure on the sleeper.
The only time I ever saw a 56 in Scotland was hauling freight (probably coal, but I don't really remember) past Musselburgh. I hadn't realised that they had worked so far north.

In any case the answer to the original question has already been given above, the daytime loco hauled passenger trains on the Highland Main Line and Aberdeen Inverness line finished in 1993/1994.
I also wasn't aware that loco-hauled services lasted that long. I left home to become a student in 1992, and the equivalent coach journey was discounted enough for me to ignore train travel completely. It was only when the 10 became unbearably long, and my income had increased to the extent that the time factor was more important than the money that I switched back to rail. At that point the 170s had been introduced.
 

Far north 37

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Over many years of observation I only ever saw a sleeper pool 47 work 6E43 Aberdeen Guild Street - Doncaster Belmont once, it was typically a pair of 37s or a 56. It (and its companion train 6S62 Doncaster - Aberdeen Guild Street) did sometimes run with a 47 dead inside when there was a failure on the sleeper.

In any case the answer to the original question has already been given above, the daytime loco hauled passenger trains on the Highland Main Line and Aberdeen Inverness line finished in 1993/1994.
They used to work the daytime freight between inverness and aberdeen and others over the highlsnd mainline.
There’s quite a few photos online on flickr.
 

Far north 37

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The only time I ever saw a 56 in Scotland was hauling freight (probably coal, but I don't really remember) past Musselburgh. I hadn't realised that they had worked so far north.


I also wasn't aware that loco-hauled services lasted that long. I left home to become a student in 1992, and the equivalent coach journey was discounted enough for me to ignore train travel completely. It was only when the 10 became unbearably long, and my income had increased to the extent that the time factor was more important than the money that I switched back to rail. At that point the 170s had been introduced.
Class 56s were Regularly seen at inverness daily for a few years in the late 90s and early 2000 till the class 66s took over.
 

Bevan Price

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Until the 47/7 came to the Push-Pull in 1980 there were no Class 47 allocated in Scotland. However, there were plenty around, operated from depots south of the border on extended diagrams. Glasgow-Aberdeen and Inverness were commonly Crewe locos, and Edinburgh-Aberdeen were ECML locos, many from Gateshead. Crewe locos even turned up on Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Carlisle and Glasgow-Stranraer services.

D1968 - D1976 went new to Haymarket, from October 1965. Their duties were mainly on ECML, but also worked some Aberdeen services.
 

Far north 37

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D1968 - D1976 went new to Haymarket, from October 1965. Their duties were mainly on ECML, but also worked some Aberdeen services.
Inverness was allocated its first class 47 47516 in 1973 years before the op is claiming.
 

47271

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I can't remember the exact timeline, but classes 26 and 27 ran in the early 80s, then it went over to 37 and 47.
I've checked with my Dad and Class 26 and 27 hauled mk1s replaced the 120s on Aberdeen-Inverness trains in March 1980. They were replaced by mk2s and Class 47s by early 1984.

He's got masses of photos taken all over Scotland in the 1980s, we must get the best ones scanned and online. I keep saying that, but we never do it!
 

Far north 37

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I've checked with my Dad and Class 26 and 27 hauled mk1s replaced the 120s on Aberdeen-Inverness trains in March 1980. They were replaced by mk2s and Class 47s by early 1984.

He's got masses of photos taken all over Scotland in the 1980s, we must get the best ones scanned and online. I keep saying that, but we never do it!
Thats the dates i had in my head always wondered why the aberdeen line was dmu worked and the rest of the services out of inverness were loco hauled.
 

Far north 37

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Were any XCs services in Scotland operated by 47s ?
I think they were all hauled by class 86s then replaced by 47/8s to there end destination i think birmingham new street was one of the main traction changeover points although i think on occasions class 47s did work throughout.
 
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route101

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I think they were all hauled by class 86s then replaced by 47/8s i think birmingham new street was one of the main traction changeover points although i think on occasions class 47s did work throughout.

Yeah all i can remember are 86s on Poole services from Glasgow . Not sure about Edinburgh .
 

GusB

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I've checked with my Dad and Class 26 and 27 hauled mk1s replaced the 120s on Aberdeen-Inverness trains in March 1980. They were replaced by mk2s and Class 47s by early 1984.

He's got masses of photos taken all over Scotland in the 1980s, we must get the best ones scanned and online. I keep saying that, but we never do it!
That more or less matches what I remember too, and I eagerly await the uploading of those photos!

always wondered why the aberdeen line was dmu worked and the rest of the services out of inverness were loco hauled
I don't want to drag the thread too far off-topic as it's specifically about loco-hauled, but there's some detail about the 120s here: https://railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/operations-scotland
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Until the 47/7 came to the Push-Pull in 1980 there were no Class 47 allocated in Scotland. However, there were plenty around, operated from depots south of the border on extended diagrams. Glasgow-Aberdeen and Inverness were commonly Crewe locos, and Edinburgh-Aberdeen were ECML locos, many from Gateshead. Crewe locos even turned up on Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Carlisle and Glasgow-Stranraer services.

D1968 - D1976 went new to Haymarket, from October 1965. Their duties were mainly on ECML, but also worked some Aberdeen services.

Anyone wanting to confirm allocation histories of any class 47 should visit http://www.class47.co.uk. A little search there reveals that Eastfield received its first allocation of the class in May 1974. I'm afraid the memory of the usually reliable Taunton has let them down on this occasion. It is however true that Scottish internal services were regularly worked by English based locos; in February 1986 I had 47465 of Bescot from Queen Street to Inverness. I also remember that in early Sectorisation days there were turns for Stratford based Freightliner 47s which had them working ECML services to/from Edinburgh and one turn included an early morning turn on the Fife circle. One needs to be very careful when making generalised statements about the class!
 

Far north 37

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Anyone wanting to confirm allocation histories of any class 47 should visit http://www.class47.co.uk. A little search there reveals that Eastfield received its first allocation of the class in May 1974. I'm afraid the memory of the usually reliable Taunton has let them down on this occasion. It is however true that Scottish internal services were regularly worked by English based locos; in February 1986 I had 47465 of Bescot from Queen Street to Inverness. I also remember that in early Sectorisation days there were turns for Stratford based Freightliner 47s which had them working ECML services to/from Edinburgh and one turn included an early morning turn on the Fife circle. One needs to be very careful when making generalised statements about the class!
In br days class 47s covered pretty much the whole country and with br’s common user policy locos could end up from one end of the country to the other.
 

Taunton

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A little search there reveals that Eastfield received its first allocation of the class in May 1974. I'm afraid the memory of the usually reliable Taunton has let them down on this occasion.
On reflection it was (not much but a bit) before this date that I am recalling, not from any Ian Allan book but from seeing the stickers on the loco side. I quite often took the 0830 Push-Pull from Queen Street to Edinburgh, and used to watch the 0810 to Aberdeen depart, which then was a Crewe or elsewhere loco, more than once still in two-tone green livery, a rarity by then. It used to depart from the easternmost platform in a spectacular, but typically Eastfield, manner, a crow on the loco horn, a response from down inside the trainshed, and then full throttle from the off to storm the 1 in 36 climb up through the tunnel. Just 6 or 7 coaches, and then the Class 27 that had brought in the stock, uncoupled but pushing, also at full throttle. They had actually got up quite a speed by this time and the Class 27 would notably rock on the crossover to the departure line which was just at the tunnel entrance. If it was a 20mph crossover they were doing significantly more.
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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In br days class 47s covered pretty much the whole country and with br’s common user policy locos could end up from one end of the country to the other.

Yes, this discussion could ramble on for a long time quoting the oddities. Unfortunately the OP was not very discriminating with their initial query as "on Scotrail" is somewhat ambiguous. I will however add my most unexpected working, that of Inverness based 47541, in full Highland Rail regalia, on a Waterloo-Salisbury in September 1986!
 

Highlandspring

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Yeah all i can remember are 86s on Poole services from Glasgow . Not sure about Edinburgh .
Edinburgh XC terminators used 86s as well, I used to enjoy watching them run round in the Waverley. HSTs were used north of Edinburgh to Dundee and Aberdeen although I’ve been told a loco hauled set with a 47 did make it to Aberdeen once in Virgin XC days. I have never seen any photographic proof of that though which I’d certainly expect for something so unusual if it did really happen!
 

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Remember back in the mid 70's that the Glasgow Central to Carlisle (via GSW) could produce many loco hauled formations with 25 or 27's and once traveled on this on a Sunday when it was a 2 car 126, only time i have ever been on a 2 car 126, performance was "good".
Also used to use the 08.35 Queen St To Oban and if there was an ex works loco running in this would be put on the front as far as Crianlarich, remember a 24 ( think 24.005 but not sure) and on another occasion a 26. These were the only occasions i ever saw 24's or 26's on the WHL
 

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Another less expected run in the early/mid 1970s was Deltics through to Aberdeen. General wisdom was they were confined to Edinburgh to Kings Cross, but they did make periodic appearances at Aberdeen, often going Down in the afternoon and returning with the sleeper. Colleague lived within earshot of the line at Stonehaven and said their distinctive noise always got his attention. Must have been turns with Haymarket crews throughout, though it was still common then to change crews at Dundee.
 
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