What is your controversial railway opinion/idea?

lxfe_mxtterz · 16 Aug 2018

My controversial opinion:

Fainsa ‘ironing board’ seats aren’t too bad. They provide good back support and the seats aren’t as hard and uncomfortable as many people make them out to be.

RailUK Forums

The Ham · 16 Aug 2018

BigCj34 said:
Railways need a bit more subsidy, considering the current farce with strikes and tiketabling are driving customers away. Freeze fares for the year and be prepared to take a financial hit in order to drastically reduce split ticketing loopholes. Doing so in the aim of being revenue neutral will benefit only those who are the most unaware about train ticket prices.

Railways probably don't require a subsidy to operate any more, they only still require government funding to improve the infrastructure. (i.e. building HS2, electrification, new stations, etc. but not general NR spending on maintenance).

If this is the case and was widely publicised then there would be less arguments about rail staff being paid to much or TOC's taking too much money out of the industry.

Unfortunately this would reduce by a large amount the number of posts on here. It would also remove a lot of the power the politicians had over the railways. Combined that makes for a big reason why it's unlikely to happen.

However it would mean that the above post was effectively asking for an increase in infrastructure spending by the government, which would be less likely to be seen as a bad thing by the wider population and therefore isn't that controversial.

AlastairFraser · 19 Aug 2018

Fearless said:
Welcome to the forum, Alastair - and I like what you're saying here! Let's also add the electrification of the GWR line from Thingley Jcn to Temple Meads. It's shocking that that comes under 'Not gonna happen', at least for a while.

Thanks. Yeah, I live in Reading and I think, if they're going to take possession between Reading and Newbury for the Berks and Hants anyway,why don't they take possession all the way to Westbury and electrify to Westbury,meaning they could then electrify from Westbury up to Thingley Junction, Westbury through Bath Spa to Bristol TM, put a north-facing curve on Bradford South Jcn and then electrify the Thingley Junction to Bath via Box later when they have funds. It also means they can cascade more Turbos out to the Bristol /West country area and extend Electostar service out to Westbury.

silverfoxcc · 19 Aug 2018

WelshBluebird said:
That the railways should be run in the public interest rather than for profit or as a trainset for the franchise or DfT that ignores how much some people rely on their train service.

I quite agree. Take Chiltern

last year a damn good service for the football crowds at wembley

Yesterday the normal Sat Service EVEN after the game. Result people waiting for an hour for a train

The words Brewery and party spring to mind

(Sits down waiting for the normal bleediing heart reasons/feeble excuses why)

sprunt · 19 Aug 2018

I'll bite: last year everyone knew ages in advance that Spurs were playing at Wembley so there was plenty of time to plan appropriately. This year, it was only announced mid-June when the services to be running now had already been planned. Not sure what exactly is 'bleeding heart' about this, but there you go.

AY1975 · 20 Aug 2018

Some of the long-gone overnight sleeper trains should be reintroduced. Whilst the shorter-distance ones such as London to Manchester and Liverpool probably did outlive their usefulness, there could still be a potential market for them on routes such as between Scotland and the West Country, or even South-West to North-East.

These could be run either by existing train operators such as Caledonian Sleeper or CrossCountry, or by open access operators. They could be formed of redundant Mark 3 sleeping cars.

Sleeper trains should also have couchette cars, where passengers sleep in their daytime clothes (as in most of mainland Europe). These could be created out of redundant Mark 3 coaches converted to side corridor layout. They could only have four rather than six berths per compartment to fit UK loading gauge. On routes where there is sufficient demand for an overnight service, but proper sleeping cars would not be economical to operate, couchette-only trains could run instead.

K.o.R · 20 Aug 2018

The last train of the day on any particular route should run all the way to the terminus. By all means run it back ECS if the depot isn't in the same place, but stopping short is unacceptable.

RLBH · 20 Aug 2018

K.o.R said:
The last train of the day on any particular route should run all the way to the terminus. By all means run it back ECS if the depot isn't in the same place, but stopping short is unacceptable.

Conversely: trains running from/to the depot over passenger lines at the start/end of the day should be in revenue service. Even if there are only a handful of passengers, the train has to do the miles anyway.

Bus companies do this - there are all sorts of wacky route numbers that appear on buses going from the depot to the start of their route.

Journeyman · 20 Aug 2018

There's too much of a discrepancy between how easy it is to withdraw bus services, and how difficult it is to withdraw train services. Given that public transport users depend on what's on offer, it's ridiculous that a bus company can come in and slash everything, inconveniencing many users, but a rail operator is stuck serving useless stations forever because it's so hard to close them.

There should be a common consultation process for both.

yorksrob · 20 Aug 2018

Journeyman said:
There's too much of a discrepancy between how easy it is to withdraw bus services, and how difficult it is to withdraw train services. Given that public transport users depend on what's on offer, it's ridiculous that a bus company can come in and slash everything, inconveniencing many users, but a rail operator is stuck serving useless stations forever because it's so hard to close them.

There should be a common consultation process for both.

Which basically means we need to be rid of bus-deregulation once and for all.

Journeyman · 20 Aug 2018

yorksrob said:
Which basically means we need to be rid of bus-deregulation once and for all.

Pretty much, yes. It's worked in a few places, but in most it's just caused far more problems than it's solved. I speak as someone who has just seen a fairly drastic cut in my local bus service.

yorksrob · 20 Aug 2018

Journeyman said:
Pretty much, yes. It's worked in a few places, but in most it's just caused far more problems than it's solved. I speak as someone who has just seen a fairly drastic cut in my local bus service.

You have my sympathy.

Clansman · 20 Aug 2018

Another controversial opinion/fishing rod;

Train spotters' kids shouldn't be forced to stand on a platform for hours on end to satisfy their parents' hobby.

rd749249 · 20 Aug 2018

Here’s mine. Ticket vending machines should be able to sell PRIV rate tickets. To stop any possible abuse at the point of sale, PRIV’s themselves should be smart cards similar to my train driving license that detail permitted privileges and have some kind of PIN attached to it in order to access those privileges.

Shoeburysam · 21 Aug 2018

rd749249 said:
Here’s mine. Ticket vending machines should be able to sell PRIV rate tickets. To stop any possible abuse at the point of sale, PRIV’s themselves should be smart cards similar to my train driving license that detail permitted privileges and have some kind of PIN attached to it in order to access those privileges.

I completely agree with this, the mrs and I had to travel to ramsgate to see my family a couple of weekends ago. The booking office at Stratford Int was closed. So it was a toss up between trying to find a member of staff, buying a ticket to the next station or bunking the train and paying a guard once aboard. Fortunately we found a member of staff with an ipad ticket thing. I’ll be damned if I am paying full price!

Rail Blues · 21 Aug 2018

Clansman said:
Another controversial opinion/fishing rod;

Train spotters' kids shouldn't be forced to stand on a platform for hours on end to satisfy their parents' hobby.

Well pretty much any hobby that requires an uninterested child to spend hours merely observing their parent do something solely for their own pleasure is the mark of a selfish individual. I feel much the same about kids made to watch their fathers play Sunday parks football.

If the kid is genuinely interested, fair enough but otherwise it is the sign of someone not emotionally mature enough for parenthood.

Joe Paxton · 21 Aug 2018

Journeyman said:
Pretty much, yes. It's worked in a few places, but in most it's just caused far more problems than it's solved. I speak as someone who has just seen a fairly drastic cut in my local bus service.

Sounds like it may have been a council subsidised bus route, or at least some services (at less popular times) were subsidised.

That said, the finances of bus operators have taken a hot overall with the reduction or elimination of subsidy across the country, which is having knock-on effects across the industry.

Re-regulation isn't in and of itself a magic panacea - proper, stable funding is needed regardless of the chosen model.

Mordac · 21 Aug 2018

Most complaints about seat comfort, and especially pitch, are just an excuse for people to brag about how tall they are.

Rail Blues · 22 Aug 2018

Mordac said:
Most complaints about seat comfort, and especially pitch, are just an excuse for people to brag about how tall they are.

I think most of it is an attempt to knock modern rolling stock, they know by any objective measure new stock introduced is far superior, so they go all princess and the pea over the seats. IMO it is shorthand for 'I hate everything that isn't Mk1 corridor stock'.

UP13 · 22 Aug 2018

One of my opinions.

If financially possible standardise as much rolling stock as possible (nationally). How many diffeeent commuter EMUs do we need?

As few classes as possible and to all have same coupling system, and all be push-pull compatible or be able to work on multiple with each other.

yorksrob · 22 Aug 2018

Twenty years of passenger growth has bred a tremendous amount of complacency within the rail industry, and it will have to work a lot harder in future on things such as passenger comfort, value for money and more recently, reliability if rail is to retain its position going forward.

Journeyman · 22 Aug 2018

Rail Blues said:
I think most of it is an attempt to knock modern rolling stock, they know by any objective measure new stock introduced is far superior, so they go all princess and the pea over the seats. IMO it is shorthand for 'I hate everything that isn't Mk1 corridor stock'.

Exactly. Enthusiasts forget that if you present their beloved clapped-out old junk to commuters paying four grand a year, you'll have a riot on your hands.

Bletchleyite · 22 Aug 2018

Journeyman said:
Exactly. Enthusiasts forget that if you present their beloved clapped-out old junk to commuters paying four grand a year, you'll have a riot on your hands.

I wouldn't say that was universally the case. I'm a fan of good quality modern rolling stock (such as the Class 350 or 387) but not of poor quality modern rolling stock (such as the Class 800, or at least its awful Standard interior).

Rail Blues · 22 Aug 2018

Journeyman said:
Exactly. Enthusiasts forget that if you present their beloved clapped-out old junk to commuters paying four grand a year, you'll have a riot on your hands

I wonder how these types would react if they'd hired a car for a week at a cost of several hundred pounds and were greater with my 20 year old Corolla (no aircon, cassette deck, manual windows) and were told that it was perfectly good for the task and that the driver's seat was far more comfy than that in a year old car.

Esker-pades · 22 Aug 2018

The refurbished Night Riviera seated coaches are awful.

yorksrob · 22 Aug 2018

As a commuter paying two grand a year on rail travel, I'd rather my clapped out 144 with manual opening windows, and seats that at least make an attempt at comfort, than the interior of an 800 class.

Meaningless piffle about some sort of unspecified 'grim'ness (which presumably means not clinically up to date) doesn't really feature in it.

ainsworth74 · 22 Aug 2018

yorksrob said:
Twenty years of passenger growth has bred a tremendous amount of complacency within the rail industry, and it will have to work a lot harder in future on things such as passenger comfort, value for money and more recently, reliability if rail is to retain its position going forward.

Now this is a good one! I wouldn't say it's just within the industry I think it exists within the DfT to an alarming extent. It shows up, I think, in their willingness to make life a misery on key routes throughout the South and North in their fight over DOO (lets not forget that this comes from the DfT, the details might be left up to the TOC on the ground but the impetus to bring about these changes is from the DfT) which I reasonably certain has done lasting damage to passenger figures in the most heavily effected areas (primarily Southern and Northern) and in their interior specifications on fleets like the 700s and 800s which (whilst I don't think they're as bad as some make out) have clearly been designed without much regard to passenger facilities and instead a focus on price and, in the case of the 700s, squeezing as many passengers in as possible.

I do have a serious concern that we're going to having low/zero growth and possibly even contraction in some areas thanks to a toxic mix of high fares, poor reliability (even if it recovers it will take years to gain back the trust that has been so carelessly squandered) and poor quality interiors.

And that's going to be potentially quite damaging to the industries finances.

Bletchleyite · 22 Aug 2018

The 800 is probably an easier one to solve than the 700, and it could be done without any loss of capacity - all it needs to solve the main problem is to remove the seat covers and foams, bin them, and replace with slightly thicker, softer, differently shaped (fire retardent) foams and more colourful covers, and stick a dark green plastic stripe over the nasty 1980s-bus-style lime green one. In the great scheme of things it would not be expensive. From an engineering perspective, while it isn't anything super-special it is a reasonably solid train which will last well, it just has an issue with the seating.

The 700 is probably harder to solve, as to solve it properly you'd probably want to get rid of 1st, fit 1st style seats in more of the train and fit side-facing seats elsewhere to maintain the standing capacity. It wouldn't even be possible just to remove some luggage racks and respace the seats because the door pockets narrow the saloon too much to just move a row back[1]. Though as per the 800 there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it other than the seating.

[1] Or do they? The Class 319 PRM-TSI work moves a row back towards the luggage rack overlapping the door pocket to make a priority row, and it just protrudes out another 1.5" ish into the aisle than the other rows.

yorksrob · 22 Aug 2018

ainsworth74 said:
Now this is a good one! I wouldn't say it's just within the industry I think it exists within the DfT to an alarming extent. It shows up, I think, in their willingness to make life a misery on key routes throughout the South and North in their fight over DOO (lets not forget that this comes from the DfT, the details might be left up to the TOC on the ground but the impetus to bring about these changes is from the DfT) which I reasonably certain has done lasting damage to passenger figures in the most heavily effected areas (primarily Southern and Northern) and in their interior specifications on fleets like the 700s and 800s which (whilst I don't think they're as bad as some make out) have clearly been designed without much regard to passenger facilities and instead a focus on price and, in the case of the 700s, squeezing as many passengers in as possible.

I do have a serious concern that we're going to having low/zero growth and possibly even contraction in some areas thanks to a toxic mix of high fares, poor reliability (even if it recovers it will take years to gain back the trust that has been so carelessly squandered) and poor quality interiors.

And that's going to be potentially quite damaging to the industries finances.

Yes, I agree that it exists in some parts of design specification within the DfT as well, but most importantly the never ending search for increasing revenue.

RichJF · 22 Aug 2018

The 769 is a load of hot air & will never run. GWR will order new DMUs to do Gatwick in the long run!

What is your controversial railway opinion/idea?

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