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Bristol Parkway to London Paddington journey times

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eastwestdivide

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No need to lose your rag.
The fact remains that a couple of HST services were timetabled non-stop to Parkway in 1h08. I don't think drivers were expected to overspeed.
Current plans under electrification seem to be for the same journey non-stop in about the same time.
It's an interesting comparison, which shows just how many other factors come into play, and how end-to-end speed, frequency of service and frequency of stops are all inter-related.
 
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traindoorshut

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Information from Network Rail says the electrification services will start from January 2019, I'm waiting on information from GWR about timetable release dates.
 

Mintona

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Information from Network Rail says the electrification services will start from January 2019, I'm waiting on information from GWR about timetable release dates.

The timetable won’t be changing (drastically) until at least May of next year. There will probably be the odd tweak here and there but nothing much will be different.
 

Clarence Yard

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The timetable won’t be changing (drastically) until at least May of next year. There will probably be the odd tweak here and there but nothing much will be different.

NR are struggling with the amount of work needed to finalise the national timetable for May 2019 and the GWR recast may now get put back to December 2019.
 

MichaelAMW

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I’m starting to loose my rag with people who compare the planned new timetables with the 35 year old ones.

Firstly, ATP didn’t exist. With HST power they could have done 130, 135 if the driver didn’t really care. So could the 800s do 135, 140 on electric if it was permitted. As well as that, there are more speed restrictions now, Ladbrook Grove, Reading, Swindon and I think there is one near Wooten Basset.

And traffic would be really tight and a five minute late Cheltenham London train could delay a Parkway London train up to 10 minutes if it doesn’t get the Swindon Didcot path.

I massively support four track swicot, the amount of times I have been sat on a HST looking out of the window at Swindon waiting for a clear path. Biggest delay was because of a points failure and a freight train got the path in front of us, and a Penzance train on the track in front (Newbury blockage) ended up 29 minutes late between Swindon and Didcot.

I'm not sure there is any need to get angry. All those of us making comparisons have been doing is simply that, making comparisons, and the major point is that non-stop runs are returning to the GWML, the absence of which for several years makes the improvement in timings look better than it really is. The top speed hasn't changed and the line is fast throughout so I don't think anyone is expecting huge reductions. The OP was asking about significant improvements to Bristol Parkway and the comparison with the 70s/80s is pretty useful if you want to appreciate the whole picture.
 

Bikeman78

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I’m starting to loose my rag with people who compare the planned new timetables with the 35 year old ones.

Firstly, ATP didn’t exist. With HST power they could have done 130, 135 if the driver didn’t really care. So could the 800s do 135, 140 on electric if it was permitted. As well as that, there are more speed restrictions now, Ladbrook Grove, Reading, Swindon and I think there is one near Wooten Basset.

Reading is 95 mph now, used to be slower, maybe 60 mph? Someone else will be able to give a definitive answer. Was Swindon ever more than 85 mph? Wootton Bassett has been 70 mph for trains via Hullavington for as long as I can remember. It's a pity they didn't put in a flyover or diveunder there to remove the conflict between down Hullavington and up Chippenham trains. The problem we have in the UK is that we try and squeeze more and more trains onto the existing infrastructure. If you look at the Dutch railways, over the past 20 years they have spent billions on flyovers, turnback sidings and four tracking various sections in order to support the service they want to run.

Another problem is that each TOC wants to do its own thing. The GWR high speed network interacts with XC at Reading and also between Bristol and Plymouth, ATW in South Wales, not to mention freight. If they don't want to retime their trains then GWR has to work around them. Ideally the whole timetable needs to start again. Put all the intercity trains on the graph first, then slot the stoppers in between.
 

D1009

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1978's timetable had the 1715 and 1815 from Paddington arriving at Bristol Parkway non-stop at 1823 and 1923 (1h08).
At other times of day, the xx15 Paddington-S Wales services were first stop Newport.
I vividly remember those days, I worked in the Western Region train planning department at Paddington before the move of the HQ to Swindon in 1984. We had someone living near Bristol Parkway who commuted every day to Paddington for a short time. The following day we always got a short report of how his journey home went, and it was rarely less than 5 mins late. All of a sudden he recounted an occasion that his train actually arrived right time, and he reported celebration and jubilation amongst the other Bristol Parkway regulars!
 

Bald Rick

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One has to question how France is operating 190mph+ trains since 1981.

It isn’t.

It has operated:
168mph trains since 1981
186mph trains since 1989
200mph trains since 2007 (possibly earlier)...

all of which are on brand new lines purpose built for the speed, and not on lines that were being built when William IV was on the throne.
 

traindoorshut

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I vividly remember those days, I worked in the Western Region train planning department at Paddington before the move of the HQ to Swindon in 1984. We had someone living near Bristol Parkway who commuted every day to Paddington for a short time. The following day we always got a short report of how his journey home went, and it was rarely less than 5 mins late. All of a sudden he recounted an occasion that his train actually arrived right time, and he reported celebration and jubilation amongst the other Bristol Parkway regulars!

That's an interesting anecdote, thanks for the share.
 

traindoorshut

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It isn’t.

It has operated:
168mph trains since 1981
186mph trains since 1989
200mph trains since 2007 (possibly earlier)...

all of which are on brand new lines purpose built for the speed, and not on lines that were being built when William IV was on the throne.

I don't know much about track technology but if the complete GWL was replaced assuming the same electric trains were used, what speeds can we be looking at reaching?
 

tiptoptaff

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I don't know much about track technology but if the complete GWL was replaced assuming the same electric trains were used, what speeds can we be looking at reaching?

It's not just about the track, it's about the signalling also, and the OHLE, the rolling stock, etc, but a purpose built railway, with purpose built rolling stock, with purpose built signalling infrastructure (which would have to be in-cab) and purpose built OHLE you could match the French speeds. I just don't see the need to.
 

swt_passenger

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Less than two months to go, I've not seen any new timetables yet.
There aren’t any plans to significantly change the timetable, have you missed some of the earlier replies?

Online journey planners will allow comparison of today’s and January’s times but you probably won’t see any difference.
 
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Mintona

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Less than two months to go, I've not seen any new timetables yet.

I replied to you above saying it won’t be changing until at least May of next year. It appears that is now December next year. So nothing will show up on new timetables for 12 months yet.
 

Bikeman78

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I replied to you above saying it won’t be changing until at least May of next year. It appears that is now December next year. So nothing will show up on new timetables for 12 months yet.
The OHL to Bristol Parkway is supposed to be live in December but Cardiff isn't likely until next autumn. It should be possible to introduce most of the improvements in May 2019 if they want to.
 

Mintona

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The OHL to Bristol Parkway is supposed to be live in December but Cardiff isn't likely until next autumn. It should be possible to introduce most of the improvements in May 2019 if they want to.

They will still be running to the current timetable until December 2019 though. They’ll just arrive early and be sat outside stations, or at junctions, until the timetable is changed. Or more likely be driven a bit slower so as to avoid the above.
 

gallafent

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One has to question how France is operating 190mph+ trains since 1981.

Indeed one does … because they weren't. In fact, it took another 12 years before this happened. :)

First generation TGV Sud-Est were 270km/h (=~168mph) before most were upgraded during their midlife overhaul. 300km/h (=~186mph) came with the TGV Atlantique, into service in 1989. 190+mph only arrived in service in 1993 with the TGV Réseau, the first 320km/h (=~199mph) version.

Source: wikipedia! ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV#Rolling_stock

Broadly speaking though, the answer to that question is that France started to build dedicated high speed lines (LGVs) in the 1970s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Sud-Est#History ). The UK has still not built a domestic one (fast Kent services using the LGV built for the Eurostar services doesn't count ;).

(Just noticed I'm replying to an old post … apologies … still, will leave it here for the links in any case …)
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Also worth noting that the original French LGV, between Paris and Lyon, is still generally restricted to 270kph due to gradients and curvature.
 

traindoorshut

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There aren’t any plans to significantly change the timetable, have you missed some of the earlier replies?

Online journey planners will allow comparison of today’s and January’s times but you probably won’t see any difference.

I haven't missed replies. Check the GWR timetable webpage - there's no record of timetables beyond 31st December 2018: https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/train-times
 

traindoorshut

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They will still be running to the current timetable until December 2019 though. They’ll just arrive early and be sat outside stations, or at junctions, until the timetable is changed. Or more likely be driven a bit slower so as to avoid the above.

I hope folks on the platform are observing this.
 

swt_passenger

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I haven't missed replies. Check the GWR timetable webpage - there's no record of timetables beyond 31st December 2018: https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/train-times
I was referring to earlier replies, that you seem to have ignored, already telling you that the timetable is rolling over (as previously announced for GWR) and there are no planned changes. This can be checked using online planners.
 

traindoorshut

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Thought I provide an update on known Dec 2019 timetable from BPW and PADD incase anyone was looking. Nothings confirmed until the actual timetable is released.

Direct Services:



BPW: 657-0702, PADD: 0814 (72mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94409/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 0757 - 0801, PADD: 0914 (73mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94412/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 0901 - 0903, PADD: 1015 (72mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94327/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 0929 - 0933, PADD: 1044 (70mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94329/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 1001 - 1003, PADD: 1114 (71mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94331/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 1031 - 1033, PADD: 1144 (70mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94333/2019/12/18/advanced



BPW: 1101 - 1103, PADD: 1214 (71mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94335/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1130 - 1132, PADD: 1244 (72mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94337/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1201 - 1203, PADD: 1314 (71mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94339/2019/12/17/advanced



BPW: 1231 - 1232, PADD: 1344 (72mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94341/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1301 - 1303, PADD: 1414 (71mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94343/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1331 - 1333, PADD: 1444 (70mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94345/2019/12/17/advanced



BPW: 1401 - 1403, PADD: 1514 (71mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94346/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1532 - 1534, PADD: 1646 (72mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94349/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1631 - 1633, PADD: 1746 (73mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94351/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1734 - 1735, PADD: 1845 (70mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94354/2019/12/17/advanced


BPW: 1832 - 1834, PADD: 1944 (70mins)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94355/2019/12/17/advanced
 

geoffk

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Thought I provide an update on known Dec 2019 timetable from BPW and PADD incase anyone was looking. Nothings confirmed until the actual timetable is released.

Direct Services:
BPW: 0929 - 0933, PADD: 1044 (70mins)
What was the "headline" time in 1976 when the HSTs were new?
 

eastwestdivide

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What was the "headline" time in 1976 when the HSTs were new?
The 1978 BR timetable has two up morning services non-stop Bristol Parkway to Paddington in 75 mins and 74 mins, and off-peak stopping at Reading only regularly 78 mins.
In the down direction, two services non-stop in 68 mins, off-peak with a Reading stop regularly 72 mins.
Table 127 1978 timetable.jpg
 
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