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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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TimboM

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A few months ago I made a film showing the process of assembling the southbound Highlander at Waverley - on my trip last week I made a similar video showing the reverse process travelling northbound:

A little more difficult to catch everything in this direction - as things are happening simultaneously at each end of the very long platform. To film everything would be a two person operation. I decided to film the Inverness and Aberdeen portions leaving which meant that I could not get the 92 being taken off and the FW coaches being added on. Even so it meant a bit of legging it up and down the platform. Please excuse any dodgy shots and abrupt cuts; in my defence it was 4am, I'd had virtually no sleep in the seats and was feeling a little off colour with a head cold coming on!
Great video, @BRX - glad they let you back on ;)

Agree with Essexman very interesting video - shame that is not a like feature for posts
You can like the YouTube vid though ;)
 
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marks87

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I did wonder that. I also wondered if it would be viable to switch to two half trains and run to Aberdeen via Inverness rather than a separate train - how busy are the intermediate stations on the Aberdeen line?

And arrive in Aberdeen at, what, 10.30am, if you're lucky? You'd immediately lose custom to the airlines (e.g. LHR 7.05 - 8.35 ABZ is just one example). You'd also be skipping Dundee, making it the only Scottish city not served by the sleeper.

It's a non-starter.
 

BRX

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Great video, @BRX - glad they let you back on ;)
Wasn't worried about that - after all, the seated coach to Fort William is effectively a regular day service starting from Edinburgh, so they aren't going to close the door until timetabled departure time. And as it turned out they had no interest in checking tickets anyway!
 

BRX

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There's more to the Aberdeen section than Aberdeen and there's already signs that they're promoting more to the tourist market with, for example, transport provided between Leuchars and St Andrews. We can only hope that this will grow when the new trains arrive.

Intermediate stations between Inverness and Perth do healthy business for the Inverness section and there are some quite large towns down the east coast that I'm sure they could be doing more from.

Well I guess it would come down to which destination out of Aberdeen and Fort William is more popular with seated passengers. Wouldn't make any difference to those in the sleepers.
 

Scotrail84

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90 045 on 1M16, 92 044 lying at Edinburgh knackered after Wednesday nights debacle on 1M16
 
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How many train crew and drivers work the whole trip north and south each night and is it all scotrail staff that work it?

if it is all SR staff then how does it work for when they get to London do they stay in hotel during the day then back north next night?
 

Essexman

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And arrive in Aberdeen at, what, 10.30am, if you're lucky? You'd immediately lose custom to the airlines (e.g. LHR 7.05 - 8.35 ABZ is just one example). You'd also be skipping Dundee, making it the only Scottish city not served by the sleeper.

It's a non-starter.

Elgin isn't served by the sleeper but would be by this suggestion. Not that I think it's a good idea.

A couple of weeks I tried to book the sleeper to Aberdeen using a Flexipass for a Sunday mid September and was surprised to find it (first class) was fully booked. I assume some coaches still on Fort William portion. It didn't matter too much to me this time as I'm going to Elgin so can go via Inverness.
 

Caleb2010

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Elgin arrival is the same time either way! 0940 ish! Going via inverness you don’t have to vacate quite so early!
 

BRX

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How many train crew and drivers work the whole trip north and south each night and is it all scotrail staff that work it?

if it is all SR staff then how does it work for when they get to London do they stay in hotel during the day then back north next night?
It's not operated by Scotrail any more! Serco are the operators.
 

Scotrail84

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What happened on Wednesday night?


Don't quote me but I believe 1M16 left Edinburgh at around 04:30 after an ETH fault involving the loco and the two leading coaches which resulted in them being removed from the service. Apparently there was a power surge of some sort fusing the jumper cable heads to the jumper sockets.
 

Scotrail84

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ECML tonight and Sunday with the Southbound services going into Kings X on Saturday morning and the Northbound departures on Sunday night also leaving from Kings X
 

47271

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I did wonder that. I also wondered if it would be viable to switch to two half trains and run to Aberdeen via Inverness rather than a separate train - how busy are the intermediate stations on the Aberdeen line?
The right idea, but the wrong way round I believe.

According to my sources, (regulars in discussion with CS managers, so not complete fantasy) I believe some thought has been given to is starting the Aberdeen section at Inverness. A much earlier departure and later arrival from and to Inverness, but a safety valve for a fully booked Inverness direct section at peak times and a new service for some quite significant centres of population. No need to service stock at Aberdeen, and a decent slice of whisky tourism potential into the bargain.

I don't know if it'll ever happen, capacity issues on the Aberdeen-Inverness line I suspect would be the first hurdle, but it's not the worst idea ever put forward.
 

ScottDarg

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Don't quote me but I believe 1M16 left Edinburgh at around 04:30 after an ETH fault involving the loco and the two leading coaches which resulted in them being removed from the service. Apparently there was a power surge of some sort fusing the jumper cable heads to the jumper sockets.

Coaches were RLO 6702 and BUO 9800. Both coaches were moved to Polmadie by 92044 yesterday: https://flic.kr/p/2aA8QCZ

92033 subbed in for 92044 on Wednesday night/Thursday morning after it arrived with 1S25: https://flic.kr/p/29vrom5
 

BRX

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The right idea, but the wrong way round I believe.

According to my sources, (regulars in discussion with CS managers, so not complete fantasy) I believe some thought has been given to is starting the Aberdeen section at Inverness. A much earlier departure and later arrival from and to Inverness, but a safety valve for a fully booked Inverness direct section at peak times and a new service for some quite significant centres of population. No need to service stock at Aberdeen, and a decent slice of whisky tourism potential into the bargain.

I don't know if it'll ever happen, capacity issues on the Aberdeen-Inverness line I suspect would be the first hurdle, but it's not the worst idea ever put forward.

Stick a couple of day coaches on between Edinburgh and Inverness and it could provide some extra 'daytime' capacity benefits too.
 

Far north 37

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How many train crew and drivers work the whole trip north and south each night and is it all scotrail staff that work it?

if it is all SR staff then how does it work for when they get to London do they stay in hotel during the day then back north next night?
Gbrf drivers and locos on the sleeper think one driver change takes place at preston not really sure of the full logistics.
Think the drivers from the northbound lowlander and southbound highlander swap over at preston.
 
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47271

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GBRF drive the sleeper and CS provide all guards and crew. My knowledge is from the passenger's perspective so someone else will need to tell you about when and where guards and drivers changeover.

Hosts, allocated one per two coaches, and team leaders are divided into London based and Scottish based groups. London crew work all five destinations, so a London host can find themselves out and back anywhere on the network. Scottish crew (should) only work from and to their own location, so for example Inverness based hosts only cover the Inverness section. But it's not unknown for individuals to be transferred ahead of departure from, say, Inverness to Fort William.

It works on a strict pattern of out and back, so you'll alway get Scottish crew southbound on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the Londoners southbound on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. And vice versa of course. This means that they are all returned home on a Saturday morning, ready to start again on Sunday evening.

They stay in hotels during the day.
 

andrewbowden

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How many train crew and drivers work the whole trip north and south each night and is it all scotrail staff that work it?

if it is all SR staff then how does it work for when they get to London do they stay in hotel during the day then back north next night?

Couple of years ago I overheard a member of the sleeper train explain the crew staffing. This is what happened in the Scotrail days - as told by a member of staff - and I presume there's not been changed particularly.

There are crews based in London, Aberdeen, Fort William, Inverness, Glasgow and Edinburgh. There's staff assigned to each coach and they go all the way, stay overnight in a hotel, then return the next night. The Scottish crew run only on one route - they'll do Inverness to London and back again. The London crews can do any route. The buffet car staff are similar with one exception. The Fort William buffet staff start at Fort William, and travel to Edinburgh. The coach gets decoupled from the south bound, then gets re-coupled onto the northbound. The buffet staff then return to Fort William.

This was all before Serco won the franchise, and before they'd been announced as the winner. The train I was on was run by a London team and they were saying that there was a plan to effectively "merge" the teams with the Night Riveria if First won the franchise. That way the London teams would also go to Cornwall. Obviously that didn't happen.

That just covers the customer focused staff. There were separate arrangements for train managers and drivers.

(I see whilst I was typing, that I was beaten to it with my reply ;) )
 
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gsnedders

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There's more to the Aberdeen section than Aberdeen and there's already signs that they're promoting more to the tourist market with, for example, transport provided between Leuchars and St Andrews. We can only hope that this will grow when the new trains arrive.

Intermediate stations between Inverness and Perth do healthy business for the Inverness section and there are some quite large towns down the east coast that I'm sure they could be doing more from.
Anyone I've known doing Leuchars has got the Lowlander to Edinburgh and day train north, given it's a 5:48 arrival into Leuchars, instead of 07:24 into Edinburgh (and then into Leuchars at 08:26).
 

Journeyman

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I wondered if at some point there may be an argument for running the Fort William seated/lounge coaches through, and demoting the Aberdeen ones to be the ones that are attached/detached at Edinburgh (sorry Aberdonians).

It's certainly been thought about.
 

BRX

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GBRF drive the sleeper and CS provide all guards and crew. My knowledge is from the passenger's perspective so someone else will need to tell you about when and where guards and drivers changeover.

Hosts, allocated one per two coaches, and team leaders are divided into London based and Scottish based groups. London crew work all five destinations, so a London host can find themselves out and back anywhere on the network. Scottish crew (should) only work from and to their own location, so for example Inverness based hosts only cover the Inverness section. But it's not unknown for individuals to be transferred ahead of departure from, say, Inverness to Fort William.

It works on a strict pattern of out and back, so you'll alway get Scottish crew southbound on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the Londoners southbound on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. And vice versa of course. This means that they are all returned home on a Saturday morning, ready to start again on Sunday evening.

They stay in hotels during the day.
Who employs the shunters at Edinburgh - and are they just there to deal with the sleepers or do they do other stuff as well?
 

Journeyman

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Who employs the shunters at Edinburgh - and are they just there to deal with the sleepers or do they do other stuff as well?

They're Caledonian Sleeper staff. They also travel to/from Carstairs to do the Lowland shunts there, but they don't do work for anyone else.
 

Highlandspring

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Just to complete the picture, the shunting at Aberdeen is dealt with by Victa Railfreight (an agency) and at Fort William and Inverness by ScotRail staff.
 

BRX

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They're Caledonian Sleeper staff. They also travel to/from Carstairs to do the Lowland shunts there, but they don't do work for anyone else.
Are some of them going to lose their jobs when the new stock comes in? As presumably the new couplings need less manual intervention.
 

Kite159

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Both seated coaches on tonight's northbound lowlander are locked out of use

(Not like I'm complaining as I've been given a free upgrade to a single berth)

92033 hauling to Wembley with 90045 for the leg to Glasgow via the ECML
 

route101

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Both seated coaches on tonight's northbound lowlander are locked out of use

(Not like I'm complaining as I've been given a free upgrade to a single berth)

92033 hauling to Wembley with 90045 for the leg to Glasgow via the ECML

Nice one , is it busy ?
 

Scotrail84

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Both seated coaches on tonight's northbound lowlander are locked out of use

(Not like I'm complaining as I've been given a free upgrade to a single berth)

92033 hauling to Wembley with 90045 for the leg to Glasgow via the ECML


Inverness seats also locked out on 1S25.
 

Bletchleyite

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Inverness seats also locked out on 1S25.

Given that things seem to be getting pretty bad with the Mk2s, would it perhaps make sense, as we move into the quieter season, to shorten the trains by a sleeper coach each and stick a Mk3 FO in for the passengers instead? (The Mk2 could remain for guard use)
 
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