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London Bridge Station

In terms of my journey I think the rebuilt station is

  • Significantly more convenient than before

    Votes: 29 39.7%
  • More convenient

    Votes: 20 27.4%
  • About the same

    Votes: 9 12.3%
  • Less convenient

    Votes: 9 12.3%
  • Much less convenient

    Votes: 6 8.2%

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .
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Stew998

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I'm curious; now that the redevelopment is nearing completion or at least the platforms are all open what are the views of those on here that actually use the station regarding the improvement it has made to their journey?

I'm not talking about the trains, how impressive the station is architecturally, or how clever the organisation was to effect the work while the station was still being used by tens of thousands of commuters daily, but the actual practical impact of the work that has been done on getting on and off trains and into and out of the station (i.e. its primary function).
 
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Mikey C

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I have mixed views. Clearly more capacity, but far less convenient for connecting to the Underground, and much slower to reach and change between the through platforms than before.
 

deltic

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8 Feb 2010
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Being able to cut through the station from my office to the sandwich shop is a great improvement:smile:
 

Ethano92

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26 Jun 2017
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It looks great and for someone who doesn't use Southeastern often and doesn't know what branches serve what stations etc, it's great to just have that A-Z departure boards to get me direct to the right platform and I think a few other stations do have them but there needs to be more.

I also like the portrait DMIs on the platform's which are Thameslink core-esque in that they show the next 4 trains if I remember correctly and can show all calling points at once without having to scroll through.
 

ijmad

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As someone who comes in to London Bridge on Southern and frequently goes on to Farringdon, St Pancras and Luton Airport, the regular all day connection between London Bridge and Blackfriars (and onwards to the Thameslink core) are a real improvement in convenience for me. Useful onward connections to the top half of the Circle as well via Farringdon, and soon, Crossrail meaning I'll be able to get to Heathrow in two easy and entirely step free changes (luggage!) at any time of the day.

I have mixed views. Clearly more capacity, but far less convenient for connecting to the Underground, and much slower to reach and change between the through platforms than before.

Depends where you're coming from. The new entrances at street level are rather convenient for people going to Guys hospital or the office blocks around More London. Those coming over London Bridge from the city can just stay at street level and the pedestrian crossing, it's not that much further.

As for changing, the old footbridge stairs and slope exits were always absolutely jam packed at peak hours, particularly P5. Changing was fewer steps but took longer because of the crush. I remember dozens of occasions where I was shoulder barged by people going in the other direction. It was also a total pain to wait on the footbridge for a Cannon Street train that might be on P2 or P3. Now they're the same island, it's much easier!
 

Mikey C

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As someone who comes in to London Bridge on Southern and frequently goes on to Farringdon, St Pancras and Luton Airport, the regular all day connection between London Bridge and Blackfriars (and onwards to the Thameslink core) are a real improvement in convenience for me. Useful onward connections to the top half of the Circle as well via Farringdon, and soon, Crossrail meaning I'll be able to get to Heathrow in two easy and entirely step free changes (luggage!) at any time of the day.

That was largely solved by the extra Borough Market viaduct though, rather than the London Bridge reconstruction, though I accept that capacity contraints would have been a major issue without the rebuild at London Bridge too.

My views are probably coloured by the fact that the work on the station is ongoing, and the underground/NR connection is still a building site most days, but the old connections to the through platforms were a lot quicker, especially to platform 1 where the trains from Cannon Street emerge. Indeed next time I might try Tooley Street to see if it's quicker.
 

Bald Rick

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That was largely solved by the extra Borough Market viaduct though, rather than the London Bridge reconstruction, though I accept that capacity contraints would have been a major issue without the rebuild at London Bridge too.

Not so. You could not have got more TL trains through London Bridge without

a) The new Borough Market Viaduct (as you say)
b) the Bermondsey dive under
c) the complete rebuild of London Bridge to provide more through lines and platforms.
 

ijmad

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Not so. You could not have got more TL trains through London Bridge without

a) The new Borough Market Viaduct (as you say)
b) the Bermondsey dive under
c) the complete rebuild of London Bridge to provide more through lines and platforms.

Exactly. Threading Thameslink trains and the Southeastern services to Charing Cross all through Platform 5 at the old London Bridge was a huge part of the problem, no way to fix it without creating more through platforms at London Bridge, which precipitated the rebuild. We get the nice added benefit that all Charing Cross trains now stop at London Bridge during the peak as well, instead of just 80% or so as it was before.

OK, admittedly perhaps there'd have been ways to create extra through platforms without the total rebuild, but given London Bridge was already straining for capacity during the peaks in the old design, doing that without remodelling the platform entrances and exits and interchange would have been pointless.
 

John Bray

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3 Mar 2018
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As an off-peak user, the experience is worse. I miss getting off at the city end and quickly getting to the Tube, the quick platform change using the bridge, and the on-platform toilets.
 

387star

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16 Nov 2009
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6,655
Suddenly at an advanced state with platform 10 having finishing work completed as well as the upper concourse nearly complete

Main work is downstairs with parts of the arcade still closed off and being worked on

Seems wh smith has some premium outlets
 

KingJ

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23 Dec 2012
Messages
197
As an off-peak user, the experience is worse. I miss getting off at the city end and quickly getting to the Tube, the quick platform change using the bridge, and the on-platform toilets.

Technically there are still on-platform toilets, albeit for disabled users only. It would have been nice to see a few more however, the ones in the Western Arcade are definitely quite well patronised and it's not uncommon to see queues. Even if they couldn't fit them in up on the platforms, to have some within the gateline (possibly replacing or shrinking one of the retail outlets dare I suggest?) would still be quite welcome.

I personally don't mind the extra little bit of distance connecting down to the tube - the extra space to maneuver around slow walkers and groups does somewhat make up for it. However, we're not quite fully there yet given how 1/3 or more of the walking space in the Western Arcade can be closed at any time whilst fitout continues.
 

ijmad

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Technically there are still on-platform toilets, albeit for disabled users only. It would have been nice to see a few more however, the ones in the Western Arcade are definitely quite well patronised and it's not uncommon to see queues. Even if they couldn't fit them in up on the platforms, to have some within the gateline (possibly replacing or shrinking one of the retail outlets dare I suggest?) would still be quite welcome.

There are still plenty of free arches in the bowels of the station, behind shops where some more toilet space could be created. I guess they decided not to. Maybe difficult to run plumbing or something, or they just didn't estimate correctly for the footfall.
 

4-SUB 4732

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For me, not having the single exit off my Southeastern trains that I could just run down to the Tube along with the inability to quickly dash between platforms as fast as my legs could climb stairs either between Cannon / Thameslink / Charing X trains or SE / Central side is very inconvenient.

Yes, the new London Bridge is 'better', but it feels like you now have to walk far further to the Tube than before. I know that's not the case, but I just don't like the place. Give me a cramped, rubbish 6 platform event any day!
 

swt_passenger

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People crowding to the front of trains and ‘just running down the ramps to the tube’ is probably behind them intentionally not providing that particular unsafe option.

As has been pointed out regularly in London Bridge station discussions for about 5 or 6 years now...
 

ijmad

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The new design has an advantage in that passengers aiming to get off at London Bridge now crowd a different part of the train than passengers aiming to get off at CHX/CST.
 

MotCO

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I'm struck by the long escalators getting off the through platforms. I realise that this is to create a flat area at ground level, but it does take longer to switch between platforms. One option would be to have a mezzanine floor for the through platforms, linking with further escalators down to street access and the terminating platforms.
 

ijmad

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The original redevelopment design had a mezzanine (and an air rights building...):

ESOR5Or.jpg


This design was thrown out for cost reasons though.
 

bicbasher

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Have to admit I miss the easy access between the Southern terminating platforms with the footbridge interchange to the Charing Cross/Cannon St platforms, but overall it's a major improvement on the old station.
 

GiovanniBCY75

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2 Sep 2016
Messages
13
Something has definitely worsened with the southern trains approach to the station. Trains at any time of day crawl and stop all the way from New Cross Gate. A real nuisance as journey times are longer after the rebuild. Plus there isn’t any 4G mobile signal anywhere near or in the station. The wi-fi is so flaky that it’s become a bit of a mobile black spot.
 

KingJ

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Something has definitely worsened with the southern trains approach to the station. Trains at any time of day crawl and stop all the way from New Cross Gate. A real nuisance as journey times are longer after the rebuild. Plus there isn’t any 4G mobile signal anywhere near or in the station. The wi-fi is so flaky that it’s become a bit of a mobile black spot.

In terms of mobile coverage, it will vary between the networks however the data i've got suggests that EE/Three/Vodafone all have reasonable surface coverage at London Bridge itself and on the approaches, with o2 perhaps lacking a bit - not quite enough data there. That said, even with coverage, capacity is another matter and many networks are somewhat overloaded at London Bridge itself. Inside of course, it can be a bit of a blackspot in parts - i've heard rumours that there may eventually be a Distributed Antenna System fitted/live which will give excellent indoor coverage but so far i've seen no evidence of it. What network are you experiencing this on?

The WiFi is quite good - i've managed to hit download speeds of over 400Mbps on it which is incredible for public WiFi. However, whilst the coverage on the concourse is great, it looks like they've barely covered the high level platforms which is a bit of a pain.
 

ijmad

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Something has definitely worsened with the southern trains approach to the station. Trains at any time of day crawl and stop all the way from New Cross Gate. A real nuisance as journey times are longer after the rebuild. Plus there isn’t any 4G mobile signal anywhere near or in the station. The wi-fi is so flaky that it’s become a bit of a mobile black spot.

If you're talking about Southern services, I agree, the approach to the terminal platforms is often so plodding it's really irritating. I wonder if the problem is infrastructure though - since the timetable recast there seems to be a lot more time allocated to trains to get from New Cross Gate to their platform, I assume this is so when delays happen they are less visible. I feel like the reason they're waiting outside the station is because they're early vs the timetable and waiting for their slot.
 

takno

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If you're talking about Southern services, I agree, the approach to the terminal platforms is often so plodding it's really irritating. I wonder if the problem is infrastructure though - since the timetable recast there seems to be a lot more time allocated to trains to get from New Cross Gate to their platform, I assume this is so when delays happen they are less visible. I feel like the reason they're waiting outside the station is because they're early vs the timetable and waiting for their slot.
Almost every time I've been heading in on a Southern train we've been checked for a minute or two awaiting a platform, just because the utilisation is so heavy. Might have improved a bit with more services going through the core, but I'm mostly on the through trains myself now
 

alistairlees

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I'm a regular user. I used to be a daily user. Here's a couple of observations:

1. In the morning peak, the up Charing Cross service having two dedicated platforms (8 and 9, either side of the island) is much better than the previous dedicated platform 6 + dedicated non-platform loop, plus the use of platform 5 (blocking that for down trains). Exit of customers alighting from trains on to platforms 8/9 and down into the concourse for London Bridge area / the tube / Cannon Street is far less of a scrum than it was. The bridge was seriously overcrowded, and pretty dangerous, before. And the tunnels were even worse.

2. Separation of Thameslink is great (obviously). There were no Thameslink services in the peak before, at all.

3. In the morning peak there is no longer any need to stand on the bridge trying to guess between platforms 2 and 3 (separate platforms and staircases), to get to Cannon Street (for people transferring from Charing Cross / Thameslink / Southern). This was a major problem, and often resulted in wrong guesses anyway. All Cannon St services in the morning peak now go from island platform 2 / 3. Easy.

4. in the evening peak, the dedicated use of island platform 6 and 7 for services from Charing Cross is far better. Previously trains would get swapped between platform 5 and 4 at short notice - resulting in a mad dash over the bridge, which was already crowded. And often missing your train. That's gone now.

5. Services from Cannon St in the evening peak use platforms 1 and 2, which are not on an island. This is less convenient than the previous island arrangement, though it doesn't seem to cause too many issues (I haven't seen many late swaps of platform)

6. Transfer times (from Charing Cross. Thameslink and Cannon St services) to the Underground do seem a bit longer, but we are probably only talking 30 to 60 seconds. And it's far nicer and less stressful. There is just a lot more space.

7. The Southern side could probably do with one more platform and suffers a bit from three approach tracks, rather than four as before.

8. The platform canopies go all the way down the platforms. I'd have preferred an overall roof in the middle, but at least you can wait on the full length and not get wet now (though the canopies are a bit high so it's not perfect).

9. Exit from the SE / TL platforms via two escalators / two stairs / one lift to the concourse, and being in the middle of the platform is far better (and safer) than the tunnel exit right at the London end, combined with the dangerous / crowded stairs.

On the down side, there is not really enough space on the CHX, TL and CST platforms for waiting passengers; it can still get busy (everyone still bunches, despite the design). This could have been (partly) fixed by covering over the staircase / escalator holes. Also, the stop signs for 8 car trains are in poor places. They are exactly 2/3 down the platform, resulting in (often) four carriages of passengers running down the platform when they realise what's happening and all getting into coach 1. This is really a demonstration of how Network Rail doesn't understand customer behaviour, and is really easily fixed.

On the plus side, there are far more facilities; and there is far more access to the surrounding area; and there is far more space for when train issues stack up (remember the overcrowding a few years ago?).

Anyone wishing for a return to the past really has no idea.
 

ijmad

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I'm a regular user. I used to be a daily user. Here's a couple of observations

I pretty much completely agree with all your thoughts, adding some things of my own though:

5. Services from Cannon St in the evening peak use platforms 1 and 2, which are not on an island. This is less convenient than the previous island arrangement, though it doesn't seem to cause too many issues (I haven't seen many late swaps of platform)

I think the approach signalling is better meaning fewer swaps. Also by the very nature of the Cannon Street timetable, the frequency to particular destinations is lower and more predictable than trains coming from Charing Cross, and the evening peak is slightly less intense than the morning peak, so it does make considerably more sense to have it arranged this way.

Missed opportunity for a platform 0 on some extended arches out over Tooley Street, perhaps. Or easier still, swapping the positions of Track 1 and Platform 1 so that trains on Track 2 (Cannon St reversible) could open doors on either side depending on direction. Oh well!

On the down side, there is not really enough space on the CHX, TL and CST platforms for waiting passengers; it can still get busy (everyone still bunches, despite the design). This could have been (partly) fixed by covering over the staircase / escalator holes. Also, the stop signs for 8 car trains are in poor places. They are exactly 2/3 down the platform, resulting in (often) four carriages of passengers running down the platform when they realise what's happening and all getting into coach 1. This is really a demonstration of how Network Rail doesn't understand customer behaviour, and is really easily fixed.

I entirely agree there is too much width given over to the vast chasms in the platforms for the stairs/escalators. I believe the justification is so that natural light reaches the concourse. I think maybe I'd take less natural light in exchange for more platform space... although if you did fill in the voids, you'd end up with a lot of people stuck in the space you'd create trying to navigate around to get to the stairs.

I think also this situation could improve if SE were able to run more 12 coach trains on their services as it's really only the 4 middle coaches that are blocked by the chasms. I feel like when SE have more stock to run longer trains people may be inclined to spread out more along the platforms, after all, the platforms being capable of taking longer trains was one of the major purported benefits of the redevelopment!
 
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