Steve Coogan argues with conductor over passengers standing in First Class section

6Gman · 6 Sep 2018

AM9 said:
Wow, posters on this thread seem pretty polarised in their position. It seems that the facts are:

the train was short-formed as 4-car instead of its normal length (8-cars?)
some passengers were standing in 1st class
a passenger (who had presumably paid to travel in the 1st class area) was discussing the appropriateness of the guard/inspector asking those standing without a 1st class ticket to move back into the overcrowded standard class area
the event was recorded on a mobile phone and presumably posted online by an uninvolved passenger standing in the standard class area
The only thing that is unusual is that the person speaking to the guard/inspector is a famous actor/comedian. That does not have any bearing on the discussion.

Have we actually established that?

RailUK Forums

urbophile · 6 Sep 2018

I'm a fan of Steve Coogan (sorry to those who aren't) and have always hoped he was very different from Alan Partridge. I wondered when I read the thread title and thought he might be one of those over privileged self-important types who would say 'do you know who I am?' and seek to have the oiks expelled from his first-class cocoon. Partridge would. I'm glad that my fears have been proved groundless and that he stuck up for common sense and decency.

richw · 6 Sep 2018

mmh said:
The "Rules Are Rules" force is strong today.

It seems for some everything is black or white with no grey area, and no willingness to be proactive to improve things or react to an issue.
The whole black or white view is poor for customer service. It takes it back to the militant days of public transport management.

A proactive member of staff would have already considered and dealt with the overcrowding in the name of good service (Id hope). Or maybe this is why many transport sector jobs I’ve seen advertised recently specified they were looking for people from customer service backgrounds rather than transport backgrounds.

It’s also a tell tale of being somewhere on the ASD spectrum where change can’t be considered or accepted by an individual in their line and everything has to be done to the same way as they’ve been taught or planned.

mrcheek · 6 Sep 2018

richw said:
A proactive member of staff would have already considered and dealt with the overcrowding in the name of good service (Id hope).

what evidence do we have that the train was even overcrowded? For most regular rail users, "overcrowded" would mean that nobody could get through the train to even check tickets!

also, the vestibule immediately adjacent to First Class is empty one one side (hence a guy is able to film from distance) yet more evidence that the service was no overcrowded. Just the usual thing of people being too lazy to move down the train.

I often travel First Class. I often travel Standard Class. When I have a Standard ticket, I wont even dare go near the First Class section, wont even walk through.

pemma · 6 Sep 2018

mrcheek said:
what evidence do we have that the train was even overcrowded? For most regular rail users, "overcrowded" would mean that nobody could get through the train to even check tickets!

What evidence do we have that someone could get through standard class to check tickets? The only rail staff we see are in first class which appears to be the rearmost section of an Electrostar operated service.

richw · 6 Sep 2018

mrcheek said:
what evidence do we have that the train was even overcrowded? For most regular rail users, "overcrowded" would mean that nobody could get through the train to even check tickets!

also, the vestibule immediately adjacent to First Class is empty one one side (hence a guy is able to film from distance) yet more evidence that the service was no overcrowded. Just the usual thing of people being too lazy to move down the train.

I often travel First Class. I often travel Standard Class. When I have a Standard ticket, I wont even dare go near the First Class section, wont even walk through.

The only evidence we have is what we’ve got in the clip and accompanying article.

AM9 · 6 Sep 2018

mrcheek said:
what evidence do we have that the train was even overcrowded? For most regular rail users, "overcrowded" would mean that nobody could get through the train to even check tickets!

also, the vestibule immediately adjacent to First Class is empty one one side (hence a guy is able to film from distance) yet more evidence that the service was no overcrowded. Just the usual thing of people being too lazy to move down the train. ...

Actually, there is a large package wrapped up in what appears to be silver foil/bubble wrap and tied with blue string/rope. If that is in the vestibule, those standing there would be set back from the 1st class side of the space.

AM9 · 6 Sep 2018

jcollins said:
What evidence do we have that someone could get through standard class to check tickets? The only rail staff we see are in first class which appears to be the rearmost section of an Electrostar operated service.

Actually I think it is in the front car of the train. Between about 0:46 and 0:49, - it's just possible to see that the trees outside the RHS windows are moving towards the camera.
p.s. sorry about too many 'actually's.

Ianno87 · 6 Sep 2018

Mag_seven said:
Famous people who like to think they know better than the person doing the job.

Lots of people (famous or non-famous) think they know better than the person doing the job...

Why the hate for Steve Coogan standing up for other passengers, just because he's well-known?

RichardKing · 6 Sep 2018

From what I've heard, this was the 08:46 departure from Lewes (so this service: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W69042/2018/09/05/advanced). It is booked to be a 4 car 377, but further coaches are attached at Haywards Heath. The PIS says that the next station was Wivelsfield, so the train would have been at its normal 4 car length at the time of the recording.

the sniper · 6 Sep 2018

jcollins said:
https://www.indy100.com/article/ste...rn-rail-ticket-inspector-packed-train-8525321

Can't really hear the interchange in the video properly but it sounds like it is said the service is only 4 carriages when it's usually 8. Surely if that was the case the conductor should have declassified first class if there was any spare space.

Now you expect a Conductor onboard, preferably one who doesn't want to do tickets...

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. These Revenue should have stayed in some cafe so anyone could go in First. Coogan would have been happy, staff comply with 'no arguments/conflict', no grief for those who don't want to pay for First. Most importantly, less material for the crusade of the usual suspects here.

Rail Blues · 6 Sep 2018

Mag_seven said:
Can these so called comedians not just shut their traps and stop abusing rail staff doing their jobs. If they have a complaint they should make it via the formal channels.

He isn't abusing anyone, there's no evidence he swore or was aggressive or intimidating towards the ticket inspector, he's asking why people cannot stand (not sit down) in first on what appears to be a jam packed train, surely you don't think the decisions of ticket inspectors are beyond question?

the sniper · 6 Sep 2018

Rail Blues said:
He isn't abusing anyone, there's no evidence he swore or was aggressive or intimidating towards the ticket inspector, he's asking why people cannot stand (not sit down) in first on what appears to be a jam packed train, surely you don't think the decisions of ticket inspectors are beyond question?

Were you there then? It'd be good to see your evidence... :rolleyes:

Rail Blues · 6 Sep 2018

the sniper said:
Were you there then? It'd be good to see your evidence...

Because if he'd let off a few f bombs and had thrown his weight around, it would a) be apparent on the video. His body language is In no way confrontational and it doesn't look like a hostile exchange and b) passengers would have reported it to the press.

Also, what conceivabale reason would people find to stand in first class, other than to find a bit of space? It isn't like they're helping themselves to the big comfy seats and a complimentary meal and drink is it?

Any sensible, thinking person would have declassified first or turned a blind eye, but this ticket inspector appears to be a right jobsworth.

Rail Blues · 6 Sep 2018

Darandio said:
someone tries to tell him how to do his job

This isn't open heart surgery or anything, but a decision any competent adult could make, all it takes is common sense and a bit of compassion.

mrcheek said:
, I wont even dare go near the First Class section, wont even walk through

Why's that? That seems totally OTT, unless you have anxiety issues or are on the autism spectrum. Apologies if this is the case.

Journeyman · 7 Sep 2018

David Emmott said:
I'm a fan of Steve Coogan (sorry to those who aren't) and have always hoped he was very different from Alan Partridge. I wondered when I read the thread title and thought he might be one of those over privileged self-important types who would say 'do you know who I am?' and seek to have the oiks expelled from his first-class cocoon. Partridge would. I'm glad that my fears have been proved groundless and that he stuck up for common sense and decency.

I'm a huge fan as well - I can quote Alan Partridge practically word-for-word ("not now, Lynn, these are sex people!"), and in all the interviews and things I've seen, Coogan comes across as a really decent guy. He was certainly quite prominent at the time of the phone-hacking scandals, as he was one of the victims, and he doggedly stood up for the people affected and argued passionately for justice for them. Really increased my respect for him.

bengley · 7 Sep 2018

RichardKing said:
From what I've heard, this was the 08:46 departure from Lewes (so this service: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W69042/2018/09/05/advanced). It is booked to be a 4 car 377, but further coaches are attached at Haywards Heath. The PIS says that the next station was Wivelsfield, so the train would have been at its normal 4 car length at the time of the recording.

It's a shame to see a good bit of bickering and slightly off-topic conversation about whether people like Steve Coogan or not has got in the way of the facts.

The train wasn't short formed. The portion from Littlehampton is usually less busy than the portion from Eastbourne - people could have waited 5 minutes and walked through to the Littlehampton portion after the attachment at Haywards Heath.

dtaylor84 · 7 Sep 2018

Mag_seven said:
Can these so called comedians not just shut their traps and stop abusing rail staff doing their jobs. If they have a complaint they should make it via the formal channels.

The only sign of anyone abusive here is you.

NoOnesFool · 7 Sep 2018

jcollins said:
https://www.indy100.com/article/ste...rn-rail-ticket-inspector-packed-train-8525321

Can't really hear the interchange in the video properly but it sounds like it is said the service is only 4 carriages when it's usually 8. Surely if that was the case the conductor should have declassified first class if there was any spare space.

First Class accomodation is for First Class ticket holders only. End of story. If passengers want a better chance of a seat..guess what.. they should have gone to the ticket office before their journey began and bought a First Class ticket.

Journeyman · 7 Sep 2018

NoOnesFool said:
First Class accomodation is for First Class ticket holders only. End of story. If passengers want a better chance of a seat..guess what.. they should have gone to the ticket office before their journey began and bought a First Class ticket.

Inclined to agree with you there. Personally I'd never fork out for a first class ticket on Southern - it's a lot to pay for an antimacassar - but that is the reason why it's there.

urbophile · 7 Sep 2018

NoOnesFool said:
First Class accomodation is for First Class ticket holders only. End of story. If passengers want a better chance of a seat..guess what.. they should have gone to the ticket office before their journey began and bought a First Class ticket.

It's not 'end of story.' Irrespective of the facts of this particular case, if trains are frequently overcrowded so that people have to stand, first-class accommodation should be abolished.

NoOnesFool · 7 Sep 2018

David Emmott said:
It's not 'end of story.' Irrespective of the facts of this particular case, if trains are frequently overcrowded so that people have to stand, first-class accommodation should be abolished.

Some TOCs are obliged to offer First accommodation as part of their franchise agreement.

61653 HTAFC · 7 Sep 2018

NoOnesFool said:
Some TOCs are obliged to offer First accommodation as part of their franchise agreement.

There are many things TOCs are "obliged" to provide as part of their franchise agreement... in the case of first class, what happens if there's a last minute set-swap and the only available unit is standard only: Do they cancel the service? Or do they (sensibly) send that unit out and offer to compensate first-class ticket holders?
The same should apply for unexpected overcrowding: declassify and compensate those who've ended up paying more and not getting their extras (even if the extras were just a chance to be out of earshot of anyone speaking Estuary English).

Also, I do love how this thread is showing who has just read the title, and who actually clicked the link and watched the clip!

Antman · 7 Sep 2018

If the train's full, then surely logic and common sense says that the excess standard class passengers should be able to stand (at least) in first class. The alternative is to not travel. And it would be perverse to suggest that the operator would rather see passengers unable to travel so that empty seats and fresh air above empty floor space should be carried ahead of fare paying passengers. As much as a ticket isn't a guarantee of a seat, then a first class ticket shouldn't be a guarantee that there might not be someone else near you. If you want that, then may I suggest visiting your local purveyor of expensive motor cars and finding a man in a peaked hat (but remember he may have had onions last night and smell) to drive you.

Caleb2010 · 7 Sep 2018

If you’re not even allowed to walk through first class - why build units with corridor connections and first class - attach them to each other, then make an announcement that “seats are available towards the front/rear of the train”

Maybe “Seats are available at the front/rear of the train, but you’re not allowed to get to them, unless you leg it along the platform before we’re ready to go again!” Is better!

fowler9 · 7 Sep 2018

I hope everyone who thinks Steve Coogan was telling a member of railway staff how to do their job remembers that next time they are on to a call centre. Probably won't but I live in hope.

Bletchleyite · 7 Sep 2018

Caleb2010 said:
If you’re not even allowed to walk through first class - why build units with corridor connections and first class - attach them to each other, then make an announcement that “seats are available towards the front/rear of the train”

Maybe “Seats are available at the front/rear of the train, but you’re not allowed to get to them, unless you leg it along the platform before we’re ready to go again!” Is better!

You are allowed to walk through, just not to remain in there (including any vestibules marked as 1st).

EssexGonzo · 7 Sep 2018

Darandio said:
By all means go through the proper channels if you feel the rules are incorrect or should not apply to you, that is fine. Confronting a member of staff, telling them how to do their job and labelling them petty, that isn't.

Ridiculous. How would "the formal channels" helped those specific people on that service? "Confronting" is Daily Mail speak for "speaking to".

The guard was clearly entrenching himself, having clearly made the wrong decision to move these people on a very unreasonably packed service.

bramling · 7 Sep 2018

richw said:
It seems for some everything is black or white with no grey area, and no willingness to be proactive to improve things or react to an issue.
The whole black or white view is poor for customer service. It takes it back to the militant days of public transport management.

A proactive member of staff would have already considered and dealt with the overcrowding in the name of good service (Id hope). Or maybe this is why many transport sector jobs I’ve seen advertised recently specified they were looking for people from customer service backgrounds rather than transport backgrounds.

It’s also a tell tale of being somewhere on the ASD spectrum where change can’t be considered or accepted by an individual in their line and everything has to be done to the same way as they’ve been taught or planned.

It’s all very well saying the overcrowding should be considered and dealt with, but this isn’t always possible. Declassify first at the drop of a hat and it will quite reasonably annoy those who have paid to use it.

I think there’s a case for declassifying if a train is shortformed, or perhaps if it’s grossly overcrowded due to some kind of disruption.

David Emmott said:
It's not 'end of story.' Irrespective of the facts of this particular case, if trains are frequently overcrowded so that people have to stand, first-class accommodation should be abolished.

Maybe, but that’s a different discussion to whether it should be declassified as soon as an individual service gets busy.

If it exists then it should be respected, otherwise what’s the point in having it. Obviously it’s a little different if there’s an exceptional situation like disruption or a train being shortformed.

bnm · 7 Sep 2018

Well done Mr Coogan.

"Back of the net!"

Steve Coogan argues with conductor over passengers standing in First Class section

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