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Biggest places in the UK without a weekly direct bus/coach service to the relevant national capital?
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Yes that's an odd one, NX send folk via the X5 to Coachways or Cambridge for onward connections. Can't imagine many people do Bedford to London that way...
Man of Kent
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Based on this list of populations:
https://thegeographist.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/largest-cities-uk-population/
the English winner is probably St Albans (assuming we mean links to central London).
Other large towns with no NX service to London include Rayleigh, Eastleigh and Redditch.
https://thegeographist.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/largest-cities-uk-population/
the English winner is probably St Albans (assuming we mean links to central London).
Other large towns with no NX service to London include Rayleigh, Eastleigh and Redditch.
This is a not a consistent list of populations. For smaller settlements, like St Albans, it looks like it takes the population of the whole district rather than the town or its urban area, but in others, like Bristol, it appears to include the urban area outside the district.
I noted on the route map on that leaflet that Peterhead was listed as a destination, yet I don't recall there being any Citylink services to there. Although it's quite conceivable that Citylink-liveried vehicles would have ended up there on regular stage services at some point (they certainly did the occasional turn on my local route from Elgin, presumably when something else failed).
causton
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Stevenage is a good contender, with the Arriva Greenline service being axed, "saved" by Uno but then withdrawn itself. Perhaps if they waited till May this year enough people might have switched from the train to make it worthwhile!!!
(Watford is not London - before anyone mentions the 635 bus)
(Watford is not London - before anyone mentions the 635 bus)
They must have pulled Sale and Altrincham in the last 2 months, while I was working in Sale, there was a timetable at the bus stop adjacent to M&S for a service to London, calling at Altrincham, Stockport, Stoke, MK and Golders Green IIRC.
It is not in Greater London administratively, but it is within the Greater London Built Up Area as defined by the ONS, which is arguably a fairer definition of London.
Just out of interest, does Wrexham have a direct service to London?
Without wanting to get into the wider political issues, Wrexham is probably the least Welsh part of Wales and if asked 'What is the capital of your country?' people there might well reply 'London'.
overthewater
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Is there a demand for a direct coach to London? I can't see the point if the trains are faster. While the mega bus does it on cost for most passengers from further afield. Ie the North and only then from hubs. Years ago you had direct service from anywhere and everywhere carring 1 person?
In Derby it's like £70 for a train ticket and £20 or less return on the coach.
I've no idea how the price differential stacks up elsewhere but sometimes it's worth the time sacrifice to save money.
But it is part of the Stoke-on-Trent Built Up Area
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_Built-up_Area
Yes, it is a separate municipality and has its own local authority, but there is continuous urbanisation between Newcastle and Hanley. It is a similar trek to get from Tunstall or Longton to Hanley as it is from Newcastle.
Darklord8899
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No, there are still 2 journeys each way Edinburgh - Carlisle.
Edi dep. 10:45 and 13:45
Car dep. 11:38 and 14:38
However Monday to Saturday you would need to hang around for 30mins in Gala or Hawick as the services are Edinburgh Gala Hawick or Gala Hawick Carlisle
Darklord8899
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I may well be wrong here, but wasn't there odd Edinburgh(or Glasgow maybe) - Aberdeen City link that extended to Peterhead, like 1 am journey, 1 pm journey??
philthetube
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Loads of places mentioned have direct services to London, just not to the centre, eg St Albans has the 724 to Heathrow.
pitdiver
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In the past Bedford did have a direct coach service to London but for the life of me I can't remember the operator. Nowadays the train service despite being run by GTR is pretty regular and relatively quick.
In another post someone mention NX sends its customers on the X5 to either MK Coachway or Cambridge. I used to be the manager at MK Coachway, I certainly don't remember MANY pssenger doing that.
Bletchleyite
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The X5 indeed was bookable via NatEx. I think it's bookable by Megabus instead now.
Silver Cobra
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Looks like the X5 can still be booked on the National Express website on it's own or as part of a NatEx journey.
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johnnychips
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Trains can be very cheap if you book well in advance; however, I got a £7 NX return from Sheffield to Manchester the night before travelling. (How NX make any money is for a different thread!) Sorry if a bit OT.
pitdiver
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As far as I recall the X5 cannot be booked. When getting a ticket through NX you are paying the fare. It is infact a bus service albeit the longest one in England. However they do run every 30 mins except on one Boxing Day when it was every 2 hours. This caused such argro that Stagecoach never run the service again on that day.
Interesting. I don't really know Rayleigh, but Redditch to London is doable by rail in around 2 hours via Birmingham New St, and Eastleigh again is much quicker by rail.
Rail has killed the coach market it seems, except where there is not much time difference, or a big cost difference.
The last time I did Birmingham to London by coach (a couple of years ago, and about £5 return cheaper than the train), we got to the edge of central London in just over 2 hours then took another hour to Victoria. Never, ever again.
Sheds.
Smethwickian
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Unable to dig out a timetable at the moment, but from memory the X49 and X50 in the 1980s were part of the Coachlinks limited stop network of United Counties, which also included buses from Northampton to the likes of Cambridge and Oxford and the earliest incarnation of the X5.
To quantify your argument with your Redditch to London example.
Redditch to London by NEx is also doable (also change at Birmingham). I chose a random day in the middle of next week at the time the single NEx journey leaves (12:15). The coach takes 4 hours 45 minutes (I am assuming both keep to time), the closest rail journey starts at 12:12 and takes 2 hours 21 minutes. The coach journey costs £13.30, the rail journey costs £14.50 for an Advance fare (still available). There are 3 possible rail journeys between 12:00 and 13:00, the other two are £13.00. OK, turn up and go is a lot more expensive (£56) but turn up and go on the coach does not guarantee a seat on the connection or, indeed, a much cheaper fare.
Someone might consider repeating this subject in five years time. I wouldn't mind betting that there will be many larger places with no bus/coach connection to their capitals.
That's really interesting, thanks for checking the detail.
I think you'd have to be quite a masochist/coach fanatic* to choose the coach for that journey. I only ever use the coach from Birmingham to Manchester or Bristol where the time difference isn't that great, and the cost savings (compared to XC) are massive.
Sheds.
* I think all coach fanatics are masochists, but not all masochists are coach fans.
tbtc
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Good point - I wish we had a thirty years ago/ twenty years ago/ ten years ago version to compare things to - it's surprising in a way that Stagecoach thought that the coach market was worth fighting for - National Express must have been expecting to gently manage decline over the decades without the cheeky upstart Megabus disrupting the busiest flows too.
Teflon Lettuce
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you're thinking of the former Birch Bros services Rushden-Bedford-Hitchin- London. They were taken over by United Counties and became the 249/ 250, then with the advent of the Coachlinks network renumbered to X49/X50
Bedford certainly did have a direct coach service to London, started in the 1920s by Birch Bros. Ltd No. 203 (Rushden) -Bedford-Hitchin-Welwyn-London). In 1959 this was supplemented by the 203M (Rushden) - Bedford - Westoning - M1 - London [The first scheduled service to be licensed along the M1]. The 203 gradually withered south of Welwyn and was withdrawn beyond this point in 1968. In 1969 Birch Bros. sold out to United Counties. The 203M was renumbered 200 about 1973, and in 1978 was renumbered 250 and extended from Rushden to Kettering on the closure of Rushden Depot. I am unsure when the 250 was withdrawn, but think it was after electrification of the railway line with more and faster trains, coupled with increasing traffic congestion.
I can well understand this. When I lived in Birmingham, it was worth me having a coachcard - Birmingham being close to a number of motorways. I can see NEx being primarily city to city along motorways (such as those described) with other services getter slower and slower as traffic builds up so that they dwindle. So, to keep to the point, if a place is large and links easily to its capital, it will keep its coach route. If not, expect it to feature on this thread in the fulness of time.
The downside of this research is that I will continue to get those stupid 'stop looking, finish booking' adverts from NEx. No point, the town I live in has lost its NEx journeys (although not according to their 'Find your perfect service' webpage).
Statto
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As well as already mentioned Wrexham, there's plenty of other Towns in North Wales, don't have a direct coach to Cardiff.
Wrexham to Cardiff can now be done on the new TrawsCymru T12 Wrexham to Newtown & change to the TrawsCymru T4 Newtown to Cardiff.
Wrexham to Cardiff can now be done on the new TrawsCymru T12 Wrexham to Newtown & change to the TrawsCymru T4 Newtown to Cardiff.
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