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Leaving emergency services for career at Northern??

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Carl

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10 Nov 2017
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Jumping the gun slightly here guys but just wanted a few opinions on the following.....Would anybody have any reservations about leaving a 12 year career in the Fire Service and joining Northern as a driver? I ask more in relation to the issues Northern have faced this year and the possibility that their franchise maybe in jeopardy?

Any advice greatly received :)

Thanks
 
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Halfway Boy

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15 Oct 2017
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Nothing to worry about.

You’d just be TUPE’d across to the new TOC.

Drivers are a valuable commodity.
 

broadgage

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Somerset
I would not worry about Northern loosing the franchise.
Any other company taking on the franchise will still need drivers, who will be invited to transfer.
 

westcoaster

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Only thing I would say is to make sure that while on trainee pay, you have enough to tide you over for the duration of your training.
We had people leave training as they could not keep them selves and family afloat. They planned for 12 months but after 24 are struggling.
 

Carl

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Only thing I would say is to make sure that while on trainee pay, you have enough to tide you over for the duration of your training.
We had people leave training as they could not keep them selves and family afloat. They planned for 12 months but after 24 are struggling.
Yes, the training salary would be a financial struggle and like most I would hope to get through that period as quickly as possible. Do many go over the 12 month period in terms of training salary?
 

TagJet

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4 Sep 2018
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Exactly same boat Carl, albeit not quite 12 years. I would leave at the drop of a hat.
 

TagJet

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4 Sep 2018
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You’d be mad not to really. Still love the job but money talks at the end of the day. Good luck mate.
 

loco-84

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Jumping the gun slightly here guys but just wanted a few opinions on the following.....Would anybody have any reservations about leaving a 12 year career in the Fire Service and joining Northern as a driver? I ask more in relation to the issues Northern have faced this year and the possibility that their franchise maybe in jeopardy?

Any advice greatly received :)

Thanks
Hi Carl
I just left an 11 career with the fire service to become a driver and so far no regrets
 

driver9000

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13 Jan 2008
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4,243
None of the Drivers I know who have come over from the emergency services seem to regret their decision. Go for it!
 

Carl

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10 Nov 2017
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31
None of the Drivers I know who have come over from the emergency services seem to regret their decision. Go for it!
Seems that way! Got my medical this week and assessment on Sunday, thinking of MMI answers as we speak!
 

Joliver

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29 Apr 2018
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224
Seems that way! Got my medical this week and assessment on Sunday, thinking of MMI answers as we speak!
I'm in the service down south mate, people are leaving the job left right and centre down here. I'm just awaiting a DMI with a TOC and I'll be jumping ship too. Training money here is the same as what we earn anyway!!

Good luck!
 

CatfordCat

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639
Just in case TUPE doesn't mean a lot, more (ACAS website) about it here.

I've been on the receiving end of TUPE (not on the railways) a couple of times. Just to add some of what's above, it's not a case of 'invited' to transfer, if an 'economic entity' (such as a train franchise) changes hands, then the existing staff who work mainly or wholly on that activity get to transfer across on existing pay and conditions - and length of service for things like redundancy pay and protection from unfair dismissal is counted from day one with old employer - you don't start from day one with new employer, and they can't impose a new 6 month probationary period or anything like that (they tried to do that with me on one occasion...)

Broadly speaking, all existing staff in the relevant job grades are eligible to transfer.

New employer can't pick and choose who to take on (and in some cases can end up getting staff back who they have dismissed before - and they can't re-sack someone for the old offence. A bus company I used to work for got one driver back about 3 times following take-overs and had to catch him fiddling and sack him again each time)

Old employer can (but does not have to) offer alternative employment to all staff eligible for transfer (this probably isn't practical in the case of a train franchise changing hands - although they might offer transfers to other bits within the group if it's that sort of operator)

they also can't pick and choose who to keep on (unless it's by open applications for a different role) - if this happens, it's up to each employee whether to stay or go.

And you can't decline to transfer and claim redundancy, it would be resignation if you refused to go. (as with anything, there can be exceptions - if new operator was planning to run everything from a base 100 miles away, that might become a redundancy situation)

I would have thought train drivers are pretty secure in the event of franchise changes. Guards (or whatever they are called locally) and station staff possibly less so in the longer term.

And more complicated for people at PLC 'group' level whose job involves doing stuff for multiple of that group's franchises - they would probably not be eligible for TUPE.

(all of the above subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer.)

also, bear in mind that TUPE came out of European Law. Current government says it will put all existing EU employment protection law in to new UK laws, but as far as I know, hasn't yet done so.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2017
Messages
31
Just in case TUPE doesn't mean a lot, more (ACAS website) about it here.

I've been on the receiving end of TUPE (not on the railways) a couple of times. Just to add some of what's above, it's not a case of 'invited' to transfer, if an 'economic entity' (such as a train franchise) changes hands, then the existing staff who work mainly or wholly on that activity get to transfer across on existing pay and conditions - and length of service for things like redundancy pay and protection from unfair dismissal is counted from day one with old employer - you don't start from day one with new employer, and they can't impose a new 6 month probationary period or anything like that (they tried to do that with me on one occasion...)

Broadly speaking, all existing staff in the relevant job grades are eligible to transfer.

New employer can't pick and choose who to take on (and in some cases can end up getting staff back who they have dismissed before - and they can't re-sack someone for the old offence. A bus company I used to work for got one driver back about 3 times following take-overs and had to catch him fiddling and sack him again each time)

Old employer can (but does not have to) offer alternative employment to all staff eligible for transfer (this probably isn't practical in the case of a train franchise changing hands - although they might offer transfers to other bits within the group if it's that sort of operator)

they also can't pick and choose who to keep on (unless it's by open applications for a different role) - if this happens, it's up to each employee whether to stay or go.

And you can't decline to transfer and claim redundancy, it would be resignation if you refused to go. (as with anything, there can be exceptions - if new operator was planning to run everything from a base 100 miles away, that might become a redundancy situation)

I would have thought train drivers are pretty secure in the event of franchise changes. Guards (or whatever they are called locally) and station staff possibly less so in the longer term.

And more complicated for people at PLC 'group' level whose job involves doing stuff for multiple of that group's franchises - they would probably not be eligible for TUPE.

(all of the above subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer.)

also, bear in mind that TUPE came out of European Law. Current government says it will put all existing EU employment protection law in to new UK laws, but as far as I know, hasn't yet done so.
Thanks for this info, much appreciated!
 

Yellowbelly

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3 Jul 2018
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139
Exactly what I’m aiming at doing. I’ve done 12 years too. I’ve already put money aside to cover any financial deficit that will come.
 

Shrimper

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14 Apr 2012
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347
Only thing I would say is to make sure that while on trainee pay, you have enough to tide you over for the duration of your training.
We had people leave training as they could not keep them selves and family afloat. They planned for 12 months but after 24 are struggling.

Depends which depot you end up at at Northern - on the west side you go to the first 'qualified' increment 12 months after starting even if you are still a trainee with an instructor.

Not 100% on the situation on the east side though I know they don't have increments so it may be that you stick it out longer on training rate but then go to top rate as soon as you pass out.
 

Carl

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10 Nov 2017
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31
Depends which depot you end up at at Northern - on the west side you go to the first 'qualified' increment 12 months after starting even if you are still a trainee with an instructor.

Not 100% on the situation on the east side though I know they don't have increments so it may be that you stick it out longer on training rate but then go to top rate as soon as you pass out.
According to Northern's literature, the pay structure is as follows: Salary - £20,882 per annum rising to £38,105 per annum on completion of training (approx. 12 months) and rising to £41,851 in Year 2 of driving then rising to £46,158 when fully qualified. (however that breaks down!)

Seems strange that Northern have such differences in their pay depending on which depot you work out of. Even the training salaries can differ greatly
 

N!ck

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Joined
20 Oct 2016
Messages
45
I left the fire service a couple of months ago and started as a trainee driver. I thought I'd miss the fire service but I've never looked back, best career decision ive made. As for the pension I believe you have to wait 2 years to transfer over, what brigade you at Carl if you don't mind me asking.
 

Ladder23

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29 Oct 2015
Messages
1,816
I was worried about the future in the fire and rescue service and declined my final stage offering having completed everything. the rail industry in my opinion was a much safer place to be, and reality kicked in when I sat and thought about leaving for what I saw as a unsteady career. I think the F&RS has changed a lot in recent years and not for the best.
 

GLENMAYE77

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28 Sep 2017
Messages
320
I’m in a a similar boat (different Emergency service though).
out of interest from those who have made the move, when asked at interview why you wanted to leave your current job and why you wanted to become a train driver, what did you say???
 

KentDriver

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Joined
25 Apr 2018
Messages
9
I’m in a a similar boat (different Emergency service though).
out of interest from those who have made the move, when asked at interview why you wanted to leave your current job and why you wanted to become a train driver, what did you say???
I was honest, the salary and not having to fit any more bloody smoke alarms!
 

KentDriver

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Joined
25 Apr 2018
Messages
9
Go for it mate, you won't look back. In was 12 years in the job and don't regret leaving one bit. You can't take the pension with you, it's frozen unfortunately. Railway pension is good though so I'll use the brigade one as a top up at state age.... whatever that'll be then!
Any questions, just ask mate. Good luck
 

Carl

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Joined
10 Nov 2017
Messages
31
Go for it mate, you won't look back. In was 12 years in the job and don't regret leaving one bit. You can't take the pension with you, it's frozen unfortunately. Railway pension is good though so I'll use the brigade one as a top up at state age.... whatever that'll be then!
Any questions, just ask mate. Good luck
Thanks mate! Just need to get through my assessment day on Sunday and then I think its decision made :)
 

Bikerchik33

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Joined
29 Jan 2014
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13
Location
Sleaford
I left the RAF after 12 years to join as a driver. I only wish I'd done it sooner. I don't however, work for Northern but I know a lad that does who's ex RAF and he's loving it!
 

Bikerchik33

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29 Jan 2014
Messages
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Location
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I’m in a a similar boat (different Emergency service though).
out of interest from those who have made the move, when asked at interview why you wanted to leave your current job and why you wanted to become a train driver, what did you say???

I was at the end of my contract. Had I not been I'd have probably still said the same!!!
 
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