Tesco & M&S being pronounced "Tescos" and "Marks & Spencers"

voyagerdude220 · 18 Sep 2018

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/advance-vs-advanced.169932/

On a similar note away from the Railway, I notice that a lot of people incorrectly pronounce the name of two well known retail companies as "Tescos" or "Marks And Spencers", whereas of course neither comapny name ends with the letter s.

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eastwestdivide · 18 Sep 2018

voyagerdude220 said:
...On a similar note away from the Railway, I notice that a lot of people incorrectly pronounce the name of two well known retail companies as "Tescos" or "Marks And Spencers", whereas of course neither comapny name ends with the letter s.

I think that's more with an implied apostrophe, Tesco's / Marks and Spencer's. Implying the word "Stores" or "Shop" or "Grocery" after it.
Notably the logo found at sainsburys.co.uk reads "Sainsbury's", while Morrisons has no apostrophe, even in its older logos.

whhistle · 19 Sep 2018

eastwestdivide said:
I think that's more with an implied apostrophe, Tesco's / Marks and Spencer's. Implying the word "Stores" or "Shop" or "Grocery" after it.
Notably the logo found at sainsburys.co.uk reads "Sainsbury's", while Morrisons has no apostrophe, even in its older logos.

But both Sainsbury's and Morrisons have an S at the end of their brand name.
Tesco does not.

Similarly people who say "that's three pound 65". Or should it be "that's three pounds 65"?

Another one that really gets me is "return from London please".
No... (usually) you want a return to London. If you want a return from London to somewhere, that's fine. But if you're going TO London, you want a return TO that location.
I understand you will be returning from it, but you still need to go TO that location first.

Bletchleyite · 19 Sep 2018

whhistle said:
But both Sainsbury's and Morrisons have an S at the end of their brand name.
Tesco does not.

That doesn't mean you aren't visiting "Tesco's grocery store", i.e. the grocery store owned by the company named "Tesco". Therefore it is correct (in the typical way English allows for the omission of sentence fragments that would be obvious).

DynamicSpirit · 19 Sep 2018

eastwestdivide said:
I think that's more with an implied apostrophe, Tesco's / Marks and Spencer's. Implying the word "Stores" or "Shop" or "Grocery" after it.
Notably the logo found at sainsburys.co.uk reads "Sainsbury's", while Morrisons has no apostrophe, even in its older logos.

I think that's correct. I'm guessing that the etymology comes from pre-20th-century days, when shops would invariably be small family-run individual businesses, and it would presumably have been customary to refer to them by the name of the owner: "so-and-so's shop", and it seems reasonable to guess that at some point people would have stopped explicitly saying the word 'shop' because if you just said "so-and-so's" the meaning would be obvious anyway.

Unfortunately, in more recent years, people have tended to become lazy about apostrophes, or ignorant about where you should use them, hence they often didn't get used when they should have done in shop names used in the possessive sense. Probably, some shops themselves have made the same mistake in their own branding, hence 'Morrisons'. Interestingly, the result seems to impact some names but not others: For example, you'd say 'Smith's' when referring to WH Smith, but you'd never say 'River Island's' - which is probably correct since River Island is the chosen brand name of the chain, not the name of any owner (well, I assume there isn't a Mr. River Island walking around somewhere

)

Bletchleyite · 19 Sep 2018

DynamicSpirit said:
Unfortunately, in more recent years, people have tended to become lazy about apostrophes, or ignorant about where you should use them, hence they often didn't get used when they should have done in shop names used in the possessive sense. Probably, some shops themselves have made the same mistake in their own branding, hence 'Morrisons'. Interestingly, the result seems to impact some names but not others: For example, you'd say 'Smith's' when referring to WH Smith, but you'd never say 'River Island's' - which is probably correct since River Island is the chosen brand name of the chain, not the name of any owner (well, I assume there isn't a Mr. River Island walking around somewhere )

But then Tesco is only sort-of a name, standing as it does for "T.E. Stockwell and Cohen", though the former was just a supplier (and interestingly has just been resurrected as an Aldi-style fake brand to replace Tesco Value on some lines).

TheSeeker · 19 Sep 2018

Legos vs. Lego (I'll get my coat)

Clip · 19 Sep 2018

Hmm another thread about language changing yet if it hadnt of changed over the years then we certainly wouldnt be speaking like we do now

yorkie · 20 Sep 2018

I have moved posts into a new thread because they were in the wrong section.

If anyone spots a thread going off topic, and wishes to reply to it, please don't just reply. Instead create a new thread and refer back to the original and let us know by using the report button.

The sooner this is done the better, as it is time consuming to move posts. Thanks.

Clip said:
Hmm another thread about language changing yet if it hadn't of changed over the years then we certainly wouldn't be speaking like we do now

I am not sure this thread is about language changing as such.

Be3G · 20 Sep 2018

DynamicSpirit said:
I think that's correct. I'm guessing that the etymology comes from pre-20th-century days, when shops would invariably be small family-run individual businesses, and it would presumably have been customary to refer to them by the name of the owner: "so-and-so's shop", and it seems reasonable to guess that at some point people would have stopped explicitly saying the word 'shop' because if you just said "so-and-so's" the meaning would be obvious anyway.

This is how I see it too. Just the same as, imagining one has a friend called Dave, one might say ‘I'm just nipping to Dave's for a few minutes to give him back the book I borrowed’ and it'd be fairly clear the meaning is ‘Dave's home’.

I'm also amazed Waterstones hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far. They are/were a case like Sainsbury's – i.e. a shop named after a person and therefore including an apostrophe in their name. But during a rebranding some years ago they got rid of A. the capital letter at the beginning of their name, and B. the apostrophe! And this is a book shop we're talking about!!! (Thankfully they seem to have abandoned the awful modern font they tried and restored the capital letter, but the apostrophe is still sadly missing.)

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

Be3G said:
This is how I see it too. Just the same as, imagining one has a friend called Dave, one might say ‘I'm just nipping to Dave's for a few minutes to give him back the book I borrowed’ and it'd be fairly clear the meaning is ‘Dave's home’.

Indeed. Even more recently (as recently as the 1980s and 1990s) if you looked around the shops of a typical English market town you'd see a load of shop signs that contained peoples' names rather than names of chains.

trash80 · 20 Sep 2018

My mum always calls Waitrose, Waitroses

pemma · 20 Sep 2018

whhistle said:
But both Sainsbury's and Morrisons have an S at the end of their brand name.

Sainsbury's also used to be branded J Sainsbury.

Busaholic · 20 Sep 2018

Be3G said:
This is how I see it too. Just the same as, imagining one has a friend called Dave, one might say ‘I'm just nipping to Dave's for a few minutes to give him back the book I borrowed’ and it'd be fairly clear the meaning is ‘Dave's home’.

I'm also amazed Waterstones hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far. They are/were a case like Sainsbury's – i.e. a shop named after a person and therefore including an apostrophe in their name. But during a rebranding some years ago they got rid of A. the capital letter at the beginning of their name, and B. the apostrophe! And this is a book shop we're talking about!!! (Thankfully they seem to have abandoned the awful modern font they tried and restored the capital letter, but the apostrophe is still sadly missing.)

They probably don't want to remind customers that ownership has gradually passed from an individual with a vision via a Russian billionaire to another dreary hedge fund, otherwise they might just decide to use the dreaded A****n like so many others!

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

jcollins said:
Sainsbury's also used to be branded J Sainsbury.

And when I was a kid, the sign on Woolies (remember them? I knew nobody who called it anything else) said F W Woolworth & Co.

Teflon Lettuce · 20 Sep 2018

whhistle said:
Another one that really gets me is "return from London please".
No... (usually) you want a return to London. If you want a return from London to somewhere, that's fine. But if you're going TO London, you want a return TO that location.

When I buy a return I want it to the place where I'm starting my journey :lol:

Bromley boy · 20 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
And when I was a kid, the sign on Woolies (remember them? I knew nobody who called it anything else) said F W Woolworth & Co.

I suspect you’re a similar age to me.

I can remember that. I can also remember when WHSmith used to be called “smiths”, and C&A.

Remember Safeway? I worked on the checkouts there when I was doing my GCSEs.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

Bromley boy said:
I suspect you’re a similar age to me

39, if that's any help?

I can remember that. I can also remember when WHSmith used to be called “smiths”, and C&A.

It was also WHSMITH (one word) for a while. My Dad used to love C&A (and it, following usual Scouse practice and on topic, was called "C and A's" locally). It's still going in Germany and Switzerland at least and has barely changed!

Remember Safeway? I worked on the checkouts there when I was doing my GCSEs.

My nearest one was their flagship store (now a Morrisons).

Bromley boy · 20 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
39, if that's any help?

You’ve got a few years on me, old timer. But not many

.

Bletchleyite said:
It was also WHSMITH (one word) for a while. My Dad used to love C&A (and it, following usual Scouse practice and on topic, was called "C and A's" locally). It's still going in Germany and Switzerland at least and has barely changed!

Yep, C&A was of the “pile it high sell it cheap” school of thought, if I remember rightly. Much like woolies!

Bletchleyite said:
My nearest one was their flagship store (now a Morrisons).

I think Safeway merged with Morrison’s in the late 90s. Funnily enough the store I worked in (west wickham) is now a Sainsbury’s.

Bromley boy · 20 Sep 2018

Teflon Lettuce said:
When I buy a return I want it to the place where I'm starting my journey

Absolutely. When I buy a return it’s always to X destination from London. Sadly there’s no accounting for ignorance. We see enough of that on here

.

bramling · 21 Sep 2018

Bromley boy said:
I think Safeway merged with Morrison’s in the late 90s. Funnily enough the store I worked in (west wickham) is now a Sainsbury’s.

It was a little later than the 90s - I remember shopping in Safeways (should that be Safeways or Safeway’s?!) as late as 2003. My local one is now a Waitrose.

When I was a small kid I used to get mildly annoyed hearing people refer to Sainsbury’s - it was always “J Sainsbury” to me at that age! That branding at my local store survived well into the 2000s.

Must be a generational thing, like referring to “taping” programmes off the tv, or referring to HSBC as Midland Bank.

GusB · 21 Sep 2018

Bromley boy said:
Remember Safeway? I worked on the checkouts there when I was doing my GCSEs.

I worked in "Safeway's" (aaargh) in the mid to late 90s, starting out on checkouts where I was only one of two blokes that actually worked in that department, before progressing to stock management (SM3, as it was known). Did you have to wear a bow-tie when you were there?

Bromley boy said:
I think Safeway merged with Morrison’s in the late 90s. Funnily enough the store I worked in (west wickham) is now a Sainsbury’s.

It was more a takeover than a merger. Before I left, Presto stores were being rebranded as Safeway, and when Morrison(')s took over, they only wanted to keep the bigger stores. The smaller places were sold on to Somerfield, but I think there was some interest from whatever the Monopoly Police was called at the time, so there were some local exceptions where it was deemed that the new organisation would have too much market share.

talltim · 21 Sep 2018

Didn’t Safeways/‘s take over Finefare?
Edit: it would appear not. They were taken over by Somerfield who rebranded some of the stores as Gateway. That must be the ‘way’ I was thinking of.

Clip · 21 Sep 2018

yorkie said:
I am not sure this thread is about language changing as such.

Maybe not so much as language changing but it seems that what is now common parlance in how people speak offends some people in that it isnt how 'they' would say such a thing so therefore it is language changing in my eyes

DarloRich · 21 Sep 2018

Does it matter?

Bromley boy said:
Remember Safeway? I worked on the checkouts there when I was doing my GCSEs.

not Safeways?

I also worked at Safeway when doing my GCSE. I worked on the beer wines and spirits aisle. Learnt a lot about wine and wine drinkers doing that.

pemma · 21 Sep 2018

GusB said:
It was more a takeover than a merger. Before I left, Presto stores were being rebranded as Safeway, and when Morrison(')s took over, they only wanted to keep the bigger stores. The smaller places were sold on to Somerfield, but I think there was some interest from whatever the Monopoly Police was called at the time, so there were some local exceptions where it was deemed that the new organisation would have too much market share.

It's never as straight forward as saying store x took over store y.

Safeway in Wilmslow got sold to Morrisons who then immediately sold it to Waitrose (who were looking to expand in the towns in the North at the time.)

Somerfield in Alderley Edge didn't pass to Co-op, it instead became a Little Waitrose.

Hanburys (anyone remember them?) were also sold to Co-op. They had a store in Knutsford which was close to the existing Co-op so the former Hanburys store in Knutsford never became a Co-op.

Morrisons sold M Local to Co-op. However, the M Local in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester became a small Morrisons store instead of passing to Co-op.

Bletchleyite · 21 Sep 2018

jcollins said:
Morrisons sold M Local to Co-op. However, the M Local in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester became a small Morrisons store instead of passing to Co-op.

Not the whole business, that was sold to a set of investors who operated it for a while as My Local then closed it all down. A few of the co-operatives (remember, they are not one single entity, rather a set of separate co-operatives operating under common branding and sharing supply chains) then took over some of the buildings.

Re Safeway, though, their takeover was late enough for me to have applied for their graduate scheme (and shopped there in the early 2000s). I reckon whoever said 2003 was about right.

pemma · 21 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
(remember, they are not one single entity, rather a set of separate co-operatives operating under common branding and sharing supply chains)

Yes. It's easy to forget that in the North West where all the Co-op stores are branded as Co-operative and that's the name that appears at the bottom of receipts and on card statements. In other areas I think you see thinks like Co-operative Central and Southern Co-operative in the same place.

Re Safeway, though, their takeover was late enough for me to have applied for their graduate scheme (and shopped there in the early 2000s). I reckon whoever said 2003 was about right.

I think it was 2004 before the merger was approved. The reason I say that is I lived in Huddersfield for a few years starting in late 2003 and I recall my Dad asking me how large the Morrisons in Huddersfield was in comparison to the size of a Safeway store local to him, with the deal being that Morrisons were only taking on the larger stores.

DarloRich · 21 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
Not the whole business, that was sold to a set of investors who operated it for a while as My Local then closed it all down. A few of the co-operatives (remember, they are not one single entity, rather a set of separate co-operatives operating under common branding and sharing supply chains) then took over some of the buildings.

Re Safeway, though, their takeover was late enough for me to have applied for their graduate scheme (and shopped there in the early 2000s). I reckon whoever said 2003 was about right.

purchased 2004 by Morrisons. Gone by 2005.

Geezertronic · 21 Sep 2018

For my technical work back in the day, there used to be a device called a Remote Insight Board or a RIB Board as it was known - and if you take that literally that is a Remote Insight Board Board

Tesco & M&S being pronounced "Tescos" and "Marks & Spencers"

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