Merseyrail and Giants event

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

So, I hear from family that for a major event in Liverpool Merseyrail are running a special timetable...including closure, without replacement service of any kind, of quite a number of stations for several days, including no service on any part of the Ellesmere Port line and closure of a large number of Wirral Line stations plus Aughton Park and Town Green.

https://www.merseyrail.org/seasonal/giants-spectacular.aspx

Given that people have normal journeys to make, why is this considered acceptable without even operating a replacement bus service at those stations?

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M28361M · 20 Sep 2018

Went down like a bucket of sick when they announced it on Twitter this morning, that's for sure. As one of the replies pointed out, lots of staff at the Countess of Chester Hospital rely on the train to get them to/from work - for three days they will be unable to because of an event in a city 20 miles away.

Would be interesting to know if Merseytravel, Joe Anderson or Steve Rotheram has been briefed on this plan and signed it off.

Iit's bizarre, because last time the giants were here, Merseyrail maintained service by reducing frequency to 20 minutes to allow more 6-car trains to run and running Hooton-Ellesmere Port as a self-contained shuttle. James Street was closed and some services skipped either Moorfields or Central to help split crowds evenly between the two stations, but with alternative stations within walking distance, it seemed to work reasonably well. Not sure why this large-scale disruption is necessary.

Does seem typical of recent Merseyrail attitude. "We can close stations and provide no alternative - what are you going to do?" No real need to engender customer loyalty - the alternative to the train is sitting in a traffic jam every morning. And the big fat Merseytravel subsidy cheque arrives whatever happens. :frown:

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

M28361M said:
Would be interesting to know if Merseytravel, Joe Anderson or Steve Rotheram has been briefed on this plan and signed it off.

One assumes they must have done, as surely otherwise it is a breach of their franchise agreement? Or does the concession work differently in this regard?

I can understand why they are doing it, but to me a failure to provide replacement bus services at the unserved stations is totally unacceptable, and breaking the Northern Line to Lime St connection for through journeys is also not on.

stuart100100 · 20 Sep 2018

No alternative out of Hightown apart from driving or a very infrequent bus as far as Crosby. And not really walkable anywhere else unless you fancy a long stroll on the footpath to Formby next to the MOD firing range

6Gman · 20 Sep 2018

That. Is. Extraordinary.

They've also not exactly given much notice have they?

DarloRich · 20 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
So, I hear from family that for a major event in Liverpool Merseyrail are running a special timetable...including closure, without replacement service of any kind, of quite a number of stations for several days, including no service on any part of the Ellesmere Port line and closure of a large number of Wirral Line stations plus Aughton Park and Town Green.

https://www.merseyrail.org/seasonal/giants-spectacular.aspx

Given that people have normal journeys to make, why is this considered acceptable without even operating a replacement bus service at those stations?

is this not similar to the Lewes fireworks situation?

Fawkes Cat · 20 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
is this not similar to the Lewes fireworks situation?

Lewes fireworks don't last four days - and Lewes doesn't have a population of 1.4 million.

DarloRich · 20 Sep 2018

Fawkes Cat said:
Lewes fireworks don't last four days - and Lewes doesn't have a population of 1.4 million.

gee whizz - I meant the perceived safety issues.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
gee whizz - I meant the perceived safety issues.

The central Liverpool stations are (and that would be a minor part of it if they would provide a shuttle bus Moorfields-Lime St/Central available only to those with tickets beyond Liverpool), but the other local stations clearly aren't; the reason is quite evidently to reduce the number of diagrams so as to double them all up.

Unlike Lewes there is also not an intention to reduce the number of people able to attend - quite the opposite.

6Gman · 20 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
is this not similar to the Lewes fireworks situation?

Not really. Notably because places like Ellesmere Port and Chester are being messed about because of an event miles away. The Lewes changes basically affect Lewes; these changes affect people travelling into Southport and Chester from the likes of Freshfield or Ellesmere Port.

6Gman · 20 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
gee whizz - I meant the perceived safety issues.

There's a safety issue in Liverpool itself but not in Ellesmere Port, or Freshfield, or Chester all of which are affected - in some cases by having no service! At all!

61653 HTAFC · 20 Sep 2018

It is a surprise that no RRB is being provided. Liverpool sees a lot of major events and in the past the Merseyrail system has coped well, having a well rehearsed set of alterations in place.

To leave places completely unserved is a negative change, and I can't get my head around how this was thought of as a good idea.

DarloRich · 20 Sep 2018

6Gman said:
There's a safety issue in Liverpool itself but not in Ellesmere Port, or Freshfield, or Chester all of which are affected - in some cases by having no service! At all!

apologies - i misread that timetable - you are right: it seems odd

Mag_seven · 20 Sep 2018

6Gman said:
They've also not exactly given much notice have they?

Presumably there is enough notice for people to create a stink and at least get a RRB service put in?

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

Mag_seven said:
Presumably there is enough notice for people to create a stink and at least get a RRB service put in?

I'm sure the Echo at least are on the case; they never shied away from a "Miseryrail" story in the past, anyway.

Camden · 20 Sep 2018

61653 HTAFC said:
It is a surprise that no RRB is being provided. Liverpool sees a lot of major events and in the past the Merseyrail system has coped well, having a well rehearsed set of alterations in place.

To leave places completely unserved is a negative change, and I can't get my head around how this was thought of as a good idea.

I agree, it's odd. I'm normally quite a fan of the Merseyrail system, but the answer to being busy seems to be to close the system!

How is Lime Street being closed, and funnelling everyone into the pokey hole (and two long sets of escalators as I recall) that is Liverpool Central supposed to help? Even with James Street and Conway Park. If they happened to be getting too busy, just temporarily close them for a half hour until the crowding clears.

The politicians will just sign off on whatever they are told to. They'd be better off posting their officer's reports on here for comment first of all. What an own goal. It will serve them right if the trains run empty. I certainly wouldn't bother making the trip up for the event with travel sounding so problematic.

Starmill · 20 Sep 2018

According to the timetable data these trains are all running. It's only a couple of weeks until the day if travel too. If someone were to book a ticket e.g. London to Overpool via Liverpool Lime Street now they'd get a through Advance. If they then find their train to Overpool cancelled I'd certainly hope Merseyrail would get them a taxi rather than breach their contract...

Intermodal · 20 Sep 2018

Starmill said:
According to the timetable data these trains are all running. It's only a couple of weeks until the day if travel too. If someone were to book a ticket e.g. London to Overpool via Liverpool Lime Street now they'd get a through Advance. If they then find their train to Overpool cancelled I'd certainly hope Merseyrail would get them a taxi rather than breach their contract...

Seems very unlikely to me. I've been told several times by Merseyrail station staff that if I want to buy a through ticket I must go to a "network rail" station. Admittedly, I've purchased it without problems on a number of occasions also.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

Intermodal said:
Seems very unlikely to me. I've been told several times by Merseyrail station staff that if I want to buy a through ticket I must go to a "network rail" station. Admittedly, I've purchased it without problems on a number of occasions also.

This is caused by there being a significant minority of lazy and incompetent ticket office staff on Merseyrail (and this is nothing new). If this happens, get it reported.

61653 HTAFC · 20 Sep 2018

Camden said:
I agree, it's odd. I'm normally quite a fan of the Merseyrail system, but the answer to being busy seems to be to close the system!

How is Lime Street being closed, and funnelling everyone into the pokey hole (and two long sets of escalators as I recall) that is Liverpool Central supposed to help? Even with James Street and Conway Park. If they happened to be getting too busy, just temporarily close them for a half hour until the crowding clears.

The politicians will just sign off on whatever they are told to. They'd be better off posting their officer's reports on here for comment first of all. What an own goal. It will serve them right if the trains run empty. I certainly wouldn't bother making the trip up for the event with travel sounding so problematic.

Surely a better way of managing crowds at the stations in Liverpool would be to make Lime Street exit only for Merseyrail, with Central being entrance/interchange only. With Northern Line services tipping out at Moorfields for the city centre and transfer to Wirral line services to Lime Street.

Fawkes Cat · 20 Sep 2018

I assume that the problem is lack of resources - either stock or crew, and stock seems most likely. If that's the case, I can understand the need to skip stops. But leaving areas without any service at all (for example and as someone pointed out upthread, in practice the train is the public transport in Hightown) isn't acceptable: some sort of alternative should be put in place, and the most obvious would be RRBs for anywhere that is really missing out (so RRB to Hightown, but a sign encouraging people to walk to New Strand at Oriel Road).

Camden · 20 Sep 2018

TBH if they were sending a train round the loop every couple of minutes, I don't really see that they'd need to do much more than just manage crowds at Liverpool Central. Many visitors don't know Liverpool well enough to head down into the underground in full trainload numbers, so while it would be very busy I can only imagine this making things far worse at Liverpool Central rather than better.

Looks to me like a hammer to crack a "safety" nut and simply making a mess everywhere, rather than being well-versed in high capacity events.

stuart100100 · 20 Sep 2018

From the Twitter feed....

"Further to our @GiantSpectacle announcement: following feedback from our customers, we are pleased to announce that we will be running a rail replacement bus service between Ellesmere Port and Hooton during the event. Full information on this will be available in the coming days"

johnnychips · 20 Sep 2018

Just in case anybody assumed it was an American Football team, like I did, here's what it actually is:

https://www.visitliverpool.com/blog...pectacular-route-revealed-liverpool-2018-b327

peter166 · 20 Sep 2018

Hightown on the Northern Line has no real public transport alternative to the train.
The only bus is the 206 to Crosby every hour or so between 9am & 5pm. No service on Sundays.
This decision to have no trains at all for 3 days is a nonsense & totally unjustifiable.
No consultation & very short notice too.
If I have booked a through ticket to London from Hightown, how do I get to Liverpool Lime Street?

peter166 · 20 Sep 2018

Full list of Merseyrail Closed Stations on 5, 6 & 7th October.

Friday, Saturday & Sunday

Trains will not call at the following stations:

Wirral line

Bache, Birkenhead Park, Bromborough Rake, Capenhurst, Conway Park, Eastham Rake, Ellesmere Port (open on Sunday), Green Lane, James Street, Lime Street low level, Little Sutton, Manor Road, Meols, Moorfields (open for Northern line services), Overpool, Port Sunlight & Spital.

Northern line

Aughton Park, Bank Hall, Bootle Oriel Road, Freshfield, Hightown, Hillside, Hunts Cross (open on Sunday), Liverpool Central (open for Wirral line services), Rice Lane, Sandhills & Town Green.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

stuart100100 said:
From the Twitter feed....

"Further to our @GiantSpectacle announcement: following feedback from our customers, we are pleased to announce that we will be running a rail replacement bus service between Ellesmere Port and Hooton during the event. Full information on this will be available in the coming days"

That's a start. Now how about the rest of the closed stations?

This stinks.

nedchester · 20 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
That's a start. Now how about the rest of the closed stations?

This stinks.

Well I use Capenhurst station and intend to use it to get to Chester and back that day.

They are breaching their franchise by withdrawing the service and these stations.

M28361M · 20 Sep 2018

stuart100100 said:
From the Twitter feed....

"Further to our @GiantSpectacle announcement: following feedback from our customers, we are pleased to announce that we will be running a rail replacement bus service between Ellesmere Port and Hooton during the event. Full information on this will be available in the coming days"

Because of feedback from customers, or because the MP for Ellesmere Port kicked up a fuss?

@justinmadders said:
How dare you decide at two weeks notice to shut the Ellesmere Port line @merseyrail -are you going to be putting on a rail replacement service?

nedchester · 20 Sep 2018

M28361M said:
Because of feedback from customers, or because the MP for Ellesmere Port kicked up a fuss?

Probably because the MP has kicked up a fuss. I’ve contacted him about Capenhurst. He’s actually a good local MP so might get something done.

Merseyrail and Giants event

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