Airline seating is a terrible idea for Merseyrail, I get the feeling people will feel 'trapped' against the window by someone sitting next to them. The new trains have only a small amount of extra seating, so they will be fairly busy. Currently most peak services get every seat taken with people standing around the doors. At least the 2+2 is still in sections of the new units, I think around the join between units.
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Merseyrail Class 777 mock-up pictures revealed.
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I suspect the variety may make matters even worse, with some people faffing around trying to get a particular seat set up holding up everyone else trying to get on. You see that a lot on the longer distance trains that have a mix, but they have longer dwell times.
I get the impression with what they've turned out is an attempt to please perhaps even designed by people who don't know the area or system, rather than a thought through plan to deliver what's needed. People would have quickly got used to an overground style seating set up, and been able to travel much more comfortably and reliably as a result.
As and when I'm proved right, I hope they've got the money and sense to reconfigure the seats accordingly.
I get the impression with what they've turned out is an attempt to please perhaps even designed by people who don't know the area or system, rather than a thought through plan to deliver what's needed. People would have quickly got used to an overground style seating set up, and been able to travel much more comfortably and reliably as a result.
As and when I'm proved right, I hope they've got the money and sense to reconfigure the seats accordingly.
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Mikey C
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Surely that's what people are used to on buses, coaches and indeed airlines it's hardly that unusual?
That, coupled with the silly door layout on the first and last carriages could spell disaster IMO.
But it is unusual on Merseyrail.
The current seating layout is perfect IMO, I wouldn’t have agreed with them going for LO/LU Style longitudinal seating either, but for different reasons.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This is well overtalking it. No seat layout would “spell disaster”. Some might be better than others though.
I prefer airline seating so like it.
As for the door layout it’s quite deliberate, allowing a longer 8 car train without the cost of platform extensions.
Except they don’t appear to have ordered enough of them to run many 8 car trains.
It is absolutely not overtalking it. If the seating layout, coupled with the door layout results in longer dwell times then you can kiss goodbye to the ‘enhanced service’ they’ve promised. So then all you end up with is the current timetable, with not enough trains to operate it. That sounds pretty disastrous to me!
causton
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Thanks. The seats look narrow and hard, but what's new?
61653 HTAFC
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Those seats don't look any worse than what's on the current fleet. Admittedly that isn't saying much, mind.
Bletchleyite
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They are closer together than the existing ones - no centre "armrest" space.
paddyb6
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when can the public see the mock up?
And where is it going to be
Thanks
And where is it going to be
Thanks
joshy.fre_2003
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Heard it’d be in Lime Street around November, but don’t quote me
Nomad8459
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Not really sure that the interiors are an upgrade at all - they need work - i actually like travelling on the 508s after they became my local services a few years ago, they are remarkably good, quick and usually on time - the replacements need to be Great!
185
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May as well be 3+2 seating, that is narrow. The ridiculously wide aisle is the giveaway. Someone at Stadler needs to be told that these are not an Urban metro train - they are often used by passengers making 50 minute journeys. Making an aisle that wide gives a little more standing room for say 10 people per coach, but for 95% of the day, the train does not need an aisle that wide. I can see kids riding bikes the full length of the train with that width.
Totally agree. The seats look too narrow (& hard) & the aisle looks very wide. For most of the day what is needed is wide, comfortable seats with plenty of leg space. Many passengers are making 30 to 50 minute journeys.
To design the trains around the relatively short peak time periods when standing occurs is mis-placed.
To quote Rail magazine ( Issue 861 ) " the class 777 mock-up is currently at the Make. North Docks venue until October. It will then be moved to Pacific Road Business Hub in Birkenhead and then Lime Street station in November "
Not sure if there is public access at the first two venues?
I understand capacity is an issue but companies and the DfT (in other cases) need to comprehend the fact that people are getting bigger, broader and taller. 3+2 is no longer welcomed by most and seats so close to each other aren't an improvement. Seats on some of Londons buses look more spacious. that's not even mentioning the actual comfort of the seats in terms of cushioning and padding which is another issue within itself. We basically sabotaged ourselves from the beginning with our narrower guage and although I understand there's not really any other affordable options, high capacity trains won't last us forever. By the next couple of generations of trains across our whole rail network, high capacity trains will no longer be the answer. Big money should be spent and big changes need to be made but there's unfortunately no money there, I do wonder how we will tackle overcrowding in future, we've already done all the 'quick fix' options.
The trains do look good though, I actually don't mind their front although I think all the different coloured lights inside feels a bit too colourful.
The trains do look good though, I actually don't mind their front although I think all the different coloured lights inside feels a bit too colourful.
Mikey C
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I assume the seat and aisle width are as per the specification Stadler were given, rather than something they decided on
paddyb6
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F Great Eastern
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Those head rests are pathetically narrow, and are probably exceptionally uncomfortable.
Were they that anxious to just save a bit of money by having a small amount more material?
Were they that anxious to just save a bit of money by having a small amount more material?
The headrests are partly there because back when a passenger survey was done people complained that the seats that replaced the original 507/8 seats were huge and made the trains feel cramped. So they've slimmed the headrests down a bit in response.
I've not seen anything yet that indicates the footspace for anyone in a window seat wont be limited. Seems like lots of people like wandering around the mockup but not sitting in them properly :/
I've not seen anything yet that indicates the footspace for anyone in a window seat wont be limited. Seems like lots of people like wandering around the mockup but not sitting in them properly :/
Public Viewing of Merseyrail Class 777 Mock-Up.
Copy of email I received from Make. North Docks
Hi Peter
Apologies for the time taken to get back to you, i wanted to check in with Merseytravel before responding.
Unfotunately the train was only for private consultation whilst at Make North Docks, however it will be open to the public over at Pacific Road, Woodside from 1st – 14th October and then at Lime Street from 5th November through to 19th November where the staff on the mock up will be happy to show everyone the features of the new trains.
Thanks for your time,
K.
Copy of email I received from Make. North Docks
Hi Peter
Apologies for the time taken to get back to you, i wanted to check in with Merseytravel before responding.
Unfotunately the train was only for private consultation whilst at Make North Docks, however it will be open to the public over at Pacific Road, Woodside from 1st – 14th October and then at Lime Street from 5th November through to 19th November where the staff on the mock up will be happy to show everyone the features of the new trains.
Thanks for your time,
K.
davegore2005
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That's a fine point, the new trains after all the talk need to actually exceed people's expectations...they have been a long time coming, and this is from someone who can remember the current fleet being introduced back in 1977/1978
Dave
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