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buses remember to put your hand out

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jim453533

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I was reading a post from some one regarding putting your hand out posted by MK TOM.

He said the following

post by MK TOM

(I've always assumed that when you're waiting for a bus and your desired bus approaches, you hold your arm out to signal that you want it to stop. Here in Milton Keynes, regardless of how many routes serve your stop, if you don't do that the bus simply won't stop, and it's always been that way. Yet I've been seeing a friend living in Rugby lately, and there literally nobody does it. At first I thought it was just because most of the stops on service 4 are only served by that route, but it even applies to the town centre stops that are served by multiple routes. People just stand there staring into space and the bus dutifully pulls in for them. So if the entire town operates that policy, how do you indicate to the driver if it's not the bus you're waiting for? Are there any other towns that don't do it or was I right to assume it was the normal thing to hold out your arm?)



I am a bus driver and wanted to say some thing on this subject. I hope my opinion has merit on this subject. We as bus drivers get very angry when people will not put their hand out for the bus. It is stupidity people are told in school or by their parents that if you need to catch a bus you need to hold your hand out. I find it so ridiculous that children will put their arm out and yet adults and OAPs can not do this simple thing. both arriva and metro at various times have put up posters to remind people.

I am tired of being Mystic Meg trying to figure out if you want my bus or not. A oap told me once that she thought she did not have to do it any more which is stupid. Their is a page on arrivas website that tells you how to get a bus to stop. Even some arrivas buses do have posters on some of their buses.

Before any one says well I am stud at a bus stop so clearly I want the bus. I say to this some routes have multiple buses on that road. How am I supposed to know you need my bus ? remember most bus stops are at request. This means you need to request the bus by asking for it. You do this by using your hand.

We need to focus on the road for safety not focus on who wants the bus or not. If we suddenly stop because you want the bus because you decide to put your hand out at the last minute this becomes dangerous to other road users and passengers on the bus. I wanted to point out that I have stopped at many stops because some people are waiting their to be told they don't want the bus. They are playing a game on their mobile or talking on the phone or want to get out of the rain or are waiting for some one.

If you ever wondered why a bus driver has driven past you it means you did not try to tell him you want the bus. Most bus drivers will stop if you try to tell him you want the bus. Many bus drivers feel if you can not be bothered to put your hand out he will feel why should I be bothered to stop.

I also want to note that OAPs are the worst. I wish I never had to pick them up OAPS up because they cause more issues than drunken lads late at night cause.

Have you ever wondered why a bus turns up late when traffic is ok and their is no road works? OAPS make us late they take up so much time and never have good manors not all but many dont even know how to say thank you.

I have had arguments with OAP's over the fact they wont put their hand out. What people need to understand is if your horrible to a driver the next time he remembers you he will not want to pick you up and many drivers will drive past you. You might think this will never happen but one day when your running late and its snowing outside and cold he will drive past you.

We are human beings please treat us with respect.
 
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GusB

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Being in a fairly rural part of the world, my local route only has one service, so waiting at the bus stop is enough to alert the driver to the fact that you wish to board. There was an occasion a month or two ago when I was waiting for a bus to Inverness (from Nairn), and both the 11 (via Airport) and 10 services were due at roughly the same time. I wanted to catch the more direct 10, but it was running a little late, and it was clear from the Stagecoach app that the 11 would get to the stop first. All I did was retreated back into the shelter a little, shook my head and made a "move on" gesture to the driver. This was clearly appreciated by the driver who gave me a wave to say thanks as he passed. When the bus I did wish to catch followed on a few minutes later, I put my arm out to make it clear that that was the bus I wished to board. I'm used to travelling on routes that have multiple services serving stops, and I have also experienced the sharp-tongues of drivers who have stopped for me when I simply wasn't paying enough attention.

I do think it's a wee bit unfair that you're singling out OAPs as the problem. They are human beings - please treat them with respect! In the case I mentioned above, I had access to the real-time information provided by the smartphone app. I was also near the junction where the two services merge, and it was obvious to me which service was which. I also knew that that particular run would have a coach allocated, but had I gone for the half-hourly inbetween service, anything could turn up. The bus stop had up-to-date timetables, but no real-time information display. If you have one service running behind the other when there's supposed to be a 10 minute gap between them, how do you know until it actually gets to the stop. How clear is the destination screen on the bus itself (does it actually work? I remember the days when paper destination strips were used) and are route numbers actually clear and distinguishable enough (11a/11b etc - the origin and destinations may be the same, but the actual route may differ)? Does your company make it clear that customers should stick their arms out to indicate which service they wish to board?

Even if all this information is present, and the company has done their best to educate the travelling public, you're always going to have people who are unfamiliar with the route, or simply stuck in their ways and won't be told either way. That's human nature, unfortunately. I've worked in retail and call centres for the last 20-odd years, and some people will always make your life awkward no matter how clearly you spell it out. It's one of the pitfalls of doing a job that involves serving Joe Public.
 

Bletchleyite

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In London drivers are instructed to stop and open the doors if people are at the stop - this is the approach in mainland Europe. Often people do put their hand out but it is not required. Have a read of the Big Red Book (it's available online) for more info.

Elsewhere in the UK putting your hand out is convention, but drivers need to be sensible and pull in anyway if there could be people at the stop who couldn't see it is their bus, e.g. when the stop is very busy.

FWIW it hasn't always been the case in MK that they won't stop if you don't put your hand out - in the early 2000s when I first moved here it was more like London - they'd stop if people were waiting. Even on hail and ride routes without stops drivers would be used to where people stood and stop anyway.
 

Robertj21a

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I see no problem with intending passengers putting their arm out to stop the bus - wherever they are. It's always been standard practice for me, and most other people that I know.
 

oldman

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Not standard practice in Edinburgh - all this waving is so vulgar. People may shuffle forward to show interest, or look away disdainfully if they are waiting for another route. It's the same with one's butler, one expects him to anticipate one's needs.
 

Cowley

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Not standard practice in Edinburgh - all this waving is so vulgar. People may shuffle forward to show interest, or look away disdainfully if they are waiting for another route. It's the same with one's butler, one expects him to anticipate one's needs.
Ha brilliant. :smile:
 

stuartl

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I'm old enough to remember when here in Sheffield we had two types of bus stops. Normal and Request. At normal one's the bus would stop whenever someone was there, at request ones you had to put your hand out, there was a sign on top of the stop that said 'Request stop only'. This was in the days of conductors though. It seemed to change to always having to put you hand out when one man operation came in.
 
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In my area (Essex), most people are aware that they need to hail a bus to stop. I actually find the OAPs are usually the best at hailing a bus they want to catch.

As a driver, it comes down to common sense. If someone is waiting at a bus stop served by a single route, I would usually stop regardless of whether the bus was hailed or not. Where a stop serves multiple routes, I only stop if hailed.

Slowing down, stopping, opening and closing doors, waiting for traffic to let you out and accelerating out of the stop adds around a minute to the journey and some timetables simply do not allow time for unnecessary stops where the bus isn't required.

With busier stops, such as town or city centres or bus/rail stations, I would usually stop if a large number of people are waiting.

Some drivers do work 'to the book' and won't stop at a request stop unless hailed, but I would say that they are a minority.

So my advice would be hail a bus if someone else hasn't, as it makes the drivers job a lot easier and allows recourse with the operator if a bus fails to stop.
 

jim453533

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it is common knowledge to use your hand to tell drivers you need the bus. if a row of 3 buses come at once how is the driver supposed to know you need my bus. No we will not stop at every stop just because people are near it. I have all ready said that I have stopped at stops where people did not want the bus. We do not have time to stop at every stop either the time table is so tight if we did we would always be 10-20 minutes late all the time. Be informed that in a duty that we work we are forced to work up to 5 and a half hours with out a break. I bet you have a 15 minute break paid at work after working 4 hours in your office. Even truck drivers get a break after 4.5 hours of driving.

As for OAPs let me explain in a typical run if I get hammered by them they take 3-5 times longer to get on the bus and a lot of the time they mess about getting a metro paper and going to the back or even go up stairs which is just a waste of our time. their is dedicated seats for them.

Some are so slow I have been delayed by some who took 10 minutes to get on this is very frustrating especially when we are late.If they are so frail they need to get a taxi remember its called public transport not service for the disabled.

You have to understand a bus driver is under alot of pressure to keep to time as he wants to finish on time to get a break after 5.5 hours of driving. to go over makes us illegal.

Then we get the complaints why are you late what the hell are you doing this is a crap service i am just trying to do my job.

do you know how many drivers quit in a given month I see 8 drivers leave and 80% of new starters don't come back after 4 weeks. The shifts make us work all over the place and you find it hard to get enough sleep. Some times working 13 days in a row as you are begged or tricked into doing over time. I personally have come close to quitting many times. most drivers say sod this I will become a HGV driver instead and I don't blame them.

some drivers have been punched spate at and even attacked with a knife the union gives us £1000 if we get attacked to be honest I would rather leave than get the £1000.

If we get out of the cab and did stick up for our selves we would get fired as a driver the company stance is you are guilty until proven innocent. Drivers get suspended all the time. But I feel self respect is worth more than being treated like dirt. Passengers know the bus company does not support the driver if some thing happens and they use this to be horrible to drivers. If you wonder why a driver is in a mood he probably had a passenger who was abusive to him. The only thing we can do is call the police if some one becomes violent the company would do nothing. I think I will go down the HGV route myself as I am tired of being treated like this.

By the way if a bus driver is of work sick he is harassed to come back as soon as possble and after speaking to many drivers from many company's it seems to me all drivers feel they are treated badly by their employer.

A bus driver is expected to be a casher a driver a ticket inspector. All for the same wage remember many years ago bus drivers had a conductor and he felt safe because he had another person on board who could help him if he was in trouble and vice versa.

Also remember other drivers dont respect buses either and will do dangerous things so this job is some thing I would never recommend to another person looking for a job.
 
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philthetube

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There is so much stress in what you write, you are obviously in the wrong job and I seriously suggest that you move to something where you feel happier.
 

jim453533

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one last thing I have read peoples comments we are not mind readers we should not be focusing on weather people want or dont want the bus we should be looking at the road in front of us.

I slow down to see if people want the bus but I am sick and tired of having to do this. many times people just stand their like zombies some even are looking down the road not even looking at my bus. Then when we approach them they suddenly turn round and stick their hand out when I am level with them somes times doing 30 or 40 mph.

It is too late some times I will stop and make them walk 2 or 3 bus lengths to make a point. But we are told if it is not safe dont do it.
 

The_Train

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I don't use buses these days as I find them uncomfortable to travel on but when I was younger and had no choice, I would always stick my hand out as soon as I was in sight distance even if it was a bus stop where only one service called at. If I was at a stop where multiple services called and a bus I didn't want to catch approached, I would simply step back away from the curb which I always felt was enough for a driver to decide that I didn't want their service and they could bypass the stop
 
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jim453533

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I don't use buses these days as I find them uncomfortable to travel on but when I was younger and had no choice, I would always stick my hand out as soon as I was in sight distance even if it was a busy stop where only one service called at. If I was at a stop where multiple services called and a bus I didn't want to catch approached, I would simply step back away from the curb which I always felt was enough for a driver to decide that I didn't want their service and they could bypass the stop
well done thats what every one should do. If some one makes the effort I will thank them when going past. If some one makes the effort to tell me they need the bus I try my best to stop for them.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, I'm well versed in the "what to do when three different buses turn up at the same time" dilemma. The only thing that seems to work is running towards the correct one whilst waiving ones arm about frantically.
 

yorkie

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I was reading a post from some one regarding putting your hand out posted by MK TOM....
I cannot find this post. Can you edit your post to include a link please? (Normally when quoting someone, quote tags would be generated automatically by the forum software, and these would include a hyperlink).
 
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What are passengers supposed to do when one stop has multiple routes operating from it and three buses turn up at once? How are they supposed to indicate that they want the second or third bus and not the first?

Not that it’s really that relevant to me any more. I can’t read the destination/number until the bus is in front of me now. Tends to be luck that I get the right one...
 

PeterC

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Yes, I'm well versed in the "what to do when three different buses turn up at the same time" dilemma. The only thing that seems to work is running towards the correct one whilst waiving ones arm about frantically.
No good if the driver has already put his foot down and pulled out to overtake which was a regular issue on a commute early in my working life.

In a fairly long life I have seen everything from having to step into the road because the driver clearly intended to ignore the hand signal to drivers recognising me and stopping to pick me up between stops (embarrassing when I was actually out for a walk). It gets a bit difficult to generalise in the end.
 

Bletchleyite

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No good if the driver has already put his foot down and pulled out to overtake which was a regular issue on a commute early in my working life.

This is a big issue, and is caused by a combination of;
- Poor allocation of services to stops and timetabling meaning two or more buses invariably arrive at the same stop at the same time;
- Poor driver training, not emphasizing the need to ensure that anyone who might want the bus has seen it sufficiently in advance to flag it down without having to move from the stop (as a wheelchair user or other person of limited mobility may not be able to do this, if the driver cannot see that there definitely is not such a person waiting for the bus, they have to assume that there is).

I'd impose a rule, were I running a bus company, that if overtaking another bus at a stop you are down to serve and where you cannot be sure that everyone at the stop has seen you and your full destination display (and you have not seen the shelter and everyone waiting at it in case they are signalling to stop) you must, unless it would be unsafe or illegal to do so, first stop behind it and open your doors for at least 10 or maybe 20 seconds to allow people time to notice.

Another way to improve this might be to fit forward facing external CCTV above the front door so it is possible to see people at the stop when behind another bus. Then the driver can be sure nobody is looking puzzled or walking over. For safety reasons this could be displayed only when the bus is stationary and the handbrake on.
 

Robertj21a

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it is common knowledge to use your hand to tell drivers you need the bus. if a row of 3 buses come at once how is the driver supposed to know you need my bus. No we will not stop at every stop just because people are near it. I have all ready said that I have stopped at stops where people did not want the bus. We do not have time to stop at every stop either the time table is so tight if we did we would always be 10-20 minutes late all the time. Be informed that in a duty that we work we are forced to work up to 5 and a half hours with out a break. I bet you have a 15 minute break paid at work after working 4 hours in your office. Even truck drivers get a break after 4.5 hours of driving.

As for OAPs let me explain in a typical run if I get hammered by them they take 3-5 times longer to get on the bus and a lot of the time they mess about getting a metro paper and going to the back or even go up stairs which is just a waste of our time. their is dedicated seats for them.

Some are so slow I have been delayed by some who took 10 minutes to get on this is very frustrating especially when we are late.If they are so frail they need to get a taxi remember its called public transport not service for the disabled.

You have to understand a bus driver is under alot of pressure to keep to time as he wants to finish on time to get a break after 5.5 hours of driving. to go over makes us illegal.

Then we get the complaints why are you late what the hell are you doing this is a crap service i am just trying to do my job.

do you know how many drivers quit in a given month I see 8 drivers leave and 80% of new starters don't come back after 4 weeks. The shifts make us work all over the place and you find it hard to get enough sleep. Some times working 13 days in a row as you are begged or tricked into doing over time. I personally have come close to quitting many times. most drivers say sod this I will become a HGV driver instead and I don't blame them.

some drivers have been punched spate at and even attacked with a knife the union gives us £1000 if we get attacked to be honest I would rather leave than get the £1000.

If we get out of the cab and did stick up for our selves we would get fired as a driver the company stance is you are guilty until proven innocent. Drivers get suspended all the time. But I feel self respect is worth more than being treated like dirt. Passengers know the bus company does not support the driver if some thing happens and they use this to be horrible to drivers. If you wonder why a driver is in a mood he probably had a passenger who was abusive to him. The only thing we can do is call the police if some one becomes violent the company would do nothing. I think I will go down the HGV route myself as I am tired of being treated like this.

By the way if a bus driver is of work sick he is harassed to come back as soon as possble and after speaking to many drivers from many company's it seems to me all drivers feel they are treated badly by their employer.

A bus driver is expected to be a casher a driver a ticket inspector. All for the same wage remember many years ago bus drivers had a conductor and he felt safe because he had another person on board who could help him if he was in trouble and vice versa.

Also remember other drivers dont respect buses either and will do dangerous things so this job is some thing I would never recommend to another person looking for a job.

I think it's very clear that you don't have sufficient patience to deal with the public. You need to find a job where you can work on your own or have no dealings with the public.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think it's very clear that you don't have sufficient patience to deal with the public. You need to find a job where you can work on your own or have no dealings with the public.

From a railway point of view, it might be worth looking at driver jobs, either with a TOC that has no foreseeable plans for DOO or a freight job.
 

Gingerbus1991

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Not standard practice in Edinburgh - all this waving is so vulgar. People may shuffle forward to show interest, or look away disdainfully if they are waiting for another route. It's the same with one's butler, one expects him to anticipate one's needs.
Ha brilliant. :smile:
I drove a bus in edinburgh for only a short time but very happy I no longer do, Back in the good old heart land of glasgow again and couldnt be happier, edinburgh punters are muppets, you’ve to be a mind reader, glasgow has grown accustomed to clearly stepping forward or putting a hand out for the bus!!
 

NoOnesFool

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Not standard practice in Edinburgh - all this waving is so vulgar. People may shuffle forward to show interest, or look away disdainfully if they are waiting for another route. It's the same with one's butler, one expects him to anticipate one's needs.
Ahh a simple shuffle would not be sufficient down in Sheffield, one would find one's self waiting for the next bus if one relied on that.
 

Jordan Adam

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In Aberdeen it depends on operator.

With First just going to the side of the road at the stop is enough to alert the driver you want on. If you don't want that bus you stand back from the road/stay in the bus shelter (if there is) or you can signal that you don't want that bus.

With Stagecoach though you need to flag them down. A few years back when they had a go at a city service drivers became known for driving past bus stops because people didn't wave, also if a bus was already in the stop they'd often drive past even if people did wave, part of the reason the route inevitably failed!
 

OverSpeed

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I was reading a post from some one regarding putting your hand out posted by MK TOM.

He said the following

post by MK TOM

(I've always assumed that when you're waiting for a bus and your desired bus approaches, you hold your arm out to signal that you want it to stop. Here in Milton Keynes, regardless of how many routes serve your stop, if you don't do that the bus simply won't stop, and it's always been that way. Yet I've been seeing a friend living in Rugby lately, and there literally nobody does it. At first I thought it was just because most of the stops on service 4 are only served by that route, but it even applies to the town centre stops that are served by multiple routes. People just stand there staring into space and the bus dutifully pulls in for them. So if the entire town operates that policy, how do you indicate to the driver if it's not the bus you're waiting for? Are there any other towns that don't do it or was I right to assume it was the normal thing to hold out your arm?)



.

I'm from Rugby, and have been using the buses in the town and in Coventry and warwickshire too, for over 30 years and i can never remember seeing ANYONE waiving a bus down for the driver to stop, where as over in Leicester they seem to do so (Infact i saw a little old lady standing at stop in one of the suburbs in Leicester the other day, simply with a piece of card with the bus number on it,placed upon a walking stick-so there was no need to do any waiving what so ever!! lazy cow lol )

In regards to Rugby, all the stops/stands in the town center are for dedicated services, so all the buses pull upto them regardless of whether people need to get on or off the bus (They are scheduled to stop there),i guess it might be a case of drivers knowing their surroundings,and what the standard practice is of that town/city/region for the local operator (Rugby is 94% covered by Stagecoach) and also,dare i say a little bit of common sense too?
 
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(Infact i saw a little old lady standing at stop in one of the suburbs in Leicester the other day, simply with a piece of card with the bus number on it,placed upon a walking stick-so there was no need to do any waiving what so ever!! lazy cow lol )

I hope you never get arthritis and/or poor vision to make something like that a necessity.
 

3141

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When I was young we lived in London, where there were two types of stop: compulsory and request. The colours were different, so you knew which was which, and in addition the word "request" appeared on a request stop. People understood how things were and acted accordingly. You also knew that if you wanted to get off at a request stop, you had to press the bell once or else the bus wouldn't stop there, but you didn't need to ring the bell for a compulsory stop.

When I lived in Manchester during 1958-62 I discovered that in practice all stops there were request stops. If you wanted the bus to stop you'd better raise your hand.

The situation in London has changed since then, and in most places it's now the case that you need to hail the bus. I can see a good reason for that, since very few conductors now exist, and even if every passenger has some kind of pass it takes longer for them to board than in the days when they got straight on and a conductor collected the fares. Also, boarding and alighting takes longer than it did when double deckers had a platform at the rear.

It would be sensible for a bus driver to stop if there is someone waiting at a stop that's served by only one route, even if the person doesn't hold out an arm. And yes, there is a certain difficulty at a stop served by several routes, if buses on more than one route arrive at the same time. That's always been the case. Sometimes, as a result, the bus you want goes past. Annoying, but there we are. There's no need for the degree of spleen and rage shown by one or two posters.
 

90019

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Not standard practice in Edinburgh - all this waving is so vulgar. People may shuffle forward to show interest, or look away disdainfully if they are waiting for another route. It's the same with one's butler, one expects him to anticipate one's needs.
Most people in Edinburgh will put their hand out or make it obvious in some other way that they want the bus.
If you don't, the bus probably won't stop.
 

Bookd

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In London there used to be a distinction between compulsory bus stops and request stops - at the former buses were meant to stop regardless of if anyone wanted them to. As I understand it they are all now request although drivers should stop if they see someone waiting ; to be safe I put a hand out and ring the bell when I want to get off.
 
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