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Amsterdam Eurostar

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BahrainLad

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My trip was also late coming into Amsterdam, but dear me did that bit after Brussels feel like a crawl until we hit the high speed line. I don't have a track map but would be interested to know what route it takes.
Sam

As I understand it it's the standard 'classic' mainline from Brussels to Antwerp, the Belgians didn't see any point in building an HSL between the two as they are so close together. It is apparently a 160 km/h railway (99mph) but has some areas of 120 km/h. It is also very busy. We crawled through Antwerp at walking pace.
 
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MarcVD

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Liège to Aachen is through an area not very densely populated, opposite to Brussels Antwerp which is almost continuously built up. An High speed Line through this would bring unaffordable land acquisition Costs... and a defeat at the next elections.
 

AlexNL

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I don't have a track map but would be interested to know what route it takes.
Here you go, thanks to Google Maps:
uDiE447.png


The route is as follows (indicates speeds are the maximum permitted on the infrastructure):
- Brussels - Mechelen: line 25N (160 km/h)
- Mechelen - Antwerp-Centraal: line 25 (160 km/h)
- Antwerp - Barendrecht: HSL4/HSL-Zuid (300 km/h)
- Barendrecht - Rotterdam-Noord: conventional route (140 km/h)
- Rotterdam-Noord - Hoofddorp: HSL-Zuid (300 km/h)
- Hoofddorp - Schiphol: conventional route (140 km/h)
- Schiphol - Amsterdam: conventional route (80 km/h)
 

Bungle965

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Here you go, thanks to Google Maps:
uDiE447.png


The route is as follows (indicates speeds are the maximum permitted on the infrastructure):
- Brussels - Mechelen: line 25N (160 km/h)
- Mechelen - Antwerp-Centraal: line 25 (160 km/h)
- Antwerp - Barendrecht: HSL4/HSL-Zuid (300 km/h)
- Barendrecht - Rotterdam-Noord: conventional route (140 km/h)
- Rotterdam-Noord - Hoofddorp: HSL-Zuid (300 km/h)
- Hoofddorp - Schiphol: conventional route (140 km/h)
- Schiphol - Amsterdam: conventional route (80 km/h)
Cheers for that!
Sam
 

Goldfish62

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As I understand it it's the standard 'classic' mainline from Brussels to Antwerp, the Belgians didn't see any point in building an HSL between the two as they are so close together. It is apparently a 160 km/h railway (99mph) but has some areas of 120 km/h. It is also very busy. We crawled through Antwerp at walking pace.
160kph is pretty much the maximum for most "classic" main lines on the continent. Anything faster than that will usually be on an HSL.
 

MarcVD

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There are a few 200 km/h lines in France (220 even for TGVs). Brussels North to Leuven is also 200 km/h and works are in progress to bring the line Brussels Midi to Brugge to 200 km/h too. Also lots of 200 km/h ABS lines in Germany. And at least one in Austria (Innsbruck to Wien?) where railjets cruise at 220 km/h. And I tend to remember about some lines for 180 km/h in Italy, also...
 

Goldfish62

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There are a few 200 km/h lines in France (220 even for TGVs). Brussels North to Leuven is also 200 km/h and works are in progress to bring the line Brussels Midi to Brugge to 200 km/h too. Also lots of 200 km/h ABS lines in Germany. And at least one in Austria (Innsbruck to Wien?) where railjets cruise at 220 km/h. And I tend to remember about some lines for 180 km/h in Italy, also...
OK, you've got me there. However, don't most of the lines you mention require cab signalling the same as HSLs? Certainly in Germany conventional lineside signalling is not designed for speeds greater than 160kmh, and LZB has to be used.
 

DavidGrain

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There are a few 200 km/h lines in France (220 even for TGVs). Brussels North to Leuven is also 200 km/h and works are in progress to bring the line Brussels Midi to Brugge to 200 km/h too. Also lots of 200 km/h ABS lines in Germany. And at least one in Austria (Innsbruck to Wien?) where railjets cruise at 220 km/h. And I tend to remember about some lines for 180 km/h in Italy, also...

Railjets in Austria are tilting trains so will be running on 220km/h tracks
 

AlexNL

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Railjets do not tilt.

Sweden and Denmark also have higher speed running (DK 180 km/h, SE 200 km/h) with in-cab signalling (DK: ZUB 123, SE: ATC/EBICAB).
 

AlexNL

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Those are most likely to stabilise everything to ensure a smooth journey at 230 km/h.
 

MarcVD

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OK, you've got me there. However, don't most of the lines you mention require cab signalling the same as HSLs? Certainly in Germany conventional lineside signalling is not designed for speeds greater than 160kmh, and LZB has to be used.

Right for Belgium, 200 km/h running requires ETCS. In France, 200 km/h running existed way before cab signals, which are still not required today. They only add one aspect to the BAL signals, flashing green, which informs of a signal at danger two sections ahead, and imposes a speed drop to 160 km/h at the next signal.
 

Groningen

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High speed in Austria is only Linz - Wien/Vienna.

On Monday there are 10 trains (Thalys/ICE) between Aachen and Luik/Liege.
 
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Goldfish62

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Right for Belgium, 200 km/h running requires ETCS. In France, 200 km/h running existed way before cab signals, which are still not required today. They only add one aspect to the BAL signals, flashing green, which informs of a signal at danger two sections ahead, and imposes a speed drop to 160 km/h at the next signal.
Thanks for the detail. Interesting stuff.
 

AlexNL

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The Swiss and Italian railways have trains which tilt: the Pendolino (ETR.460) and New Pendolino (ETR 600 / 610, RABe 503) series, but those aren't used for Railjet services.

Trivia: the longest route served by a Pendolino is probably the Frankfurt - Milan ECE. It leaves Milan and 11:23 in the morning, arriving in Frankfurt at 18:59 (7h36 total journey time). In the opposite direction it leaves Frankfurt at 8:01, arrives in Milan at 15:35 (total journey time 7h34).
 

InterCity:125

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Trivia: the longest route served by a Pendolino is probably the Frankfurt - Milan ECE. It leaves Milan and 11:23 in the morning, arriving in Frankfurt at 18:59 (7h36 total journey time). In the opposite direction it leaves Frankfurt at 8:01, arrives in Milan at 15:35 (total journey time 7h34).
The longest route served by a passenger train is the Pyongyang to Moscow service, the sleeper from Pyongyang to Vladivostok is attached to the end of the trans Siberian and continues to Moscow!
 
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The longest route served by a passenger train is the Pyongyang to Moscow service, the sleeper from Pyongyang to Vladivostok is attached to the end of the trans Siberian and continues to Moscow!

It indeed is, just a single DPRK sleeping car, runs twice a month. Its detached/attached to train 99/100 at Ussurijsk, where it runs down to Khasan/Tumangang with the local train and then after the long border formalities is attached to a domestic DPRK overnight train to Pyongyang. Eight days in total.

Second longest would be the four times each month direct RZhD cars on Moskva-Tumangang. But thats not what this thread is about..

I take it you read Helmut's excellent blog about this trip in 2008?
http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.comIMG_20180712_102146.jpg
 

BahrainLad

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Any insight into how this new route is doing, now that it has been up and running over the last few months? Hopefully the summer months have been busy!
 

Goldfish62

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Any insight into how this new route is doing, now that it has been up and running over the last few months? Hopefully the summer months have been busy!
I know a couple of people who have used it and wouldn't have previously considered going by train to Amsterdam.
 

DavidGrain

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I would have used it had it been operating when I went to Amsterdam last year. Because I am so used to changing flights at Amsterdam. I never though that I could have got the Eurostar & Thalys just to go to Amsterdam
 

gord

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Used the 08:31 Amsterdam service from London on Monday last week in Standard Premier.

Was very impressed, and found it very convenient. Check in at St Pancras was very straight forward. The only issue was a 15 minute hold at Rotterdam due to someone pulling an emergency handle. Standard Premier was fairly full until Brussels, then filled up again with new passengers between Brussels and Amsterdam. About 10 of us in my coach did the full journey.

The service from the staff in Standard Premier was superb on this route too. Hope they introduce more trains on this route as it was very well used. It's obviously a desirable train for people wanting to travel from Brussels to Amsterdam as well as those going from London.
 

Birkonian

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I see that the Eurostar website is now offering three direct trains a day to Amsterdam from 01/04/19. Someone may well tell me otherwise but I'd not seen any publicity for this.
 

BahrainLad

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Excellent news - but the schedules seem to have padded out from 3h40 to 3h55. Why's that?
 

Groningen

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Let us first see how the Brexit affects traintravel to Paris and Brussel/Amsterdam.
 

notadriver

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Right for Belgium, 200 km/h running requires ETCS. In France, 200 km/h running existed way before cab signals, which are still not required today. They only add one aspect to the BAL signals, flashing green, which informs of a signal at danger two sections ahead, and imposes a speed drop to 160 km/h at the next signal.

I thought France requires KVB which continuously monitors the maximum speed and will apply the brakes if speeds aren’t reduced to for speed reductions and adverse signals?
In sharp contrast to the UK where proper ATP is only fitted to GWR at present but trains not equipped cab still use the lines at up to 110 mph ? On other UK 125 mph lines control of speed is down to the driver, their route knowledge and good old AWS/TPWS.
 
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