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Semi-fast overground Cheshunt services

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Mikey C

Mikey C

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This evening (Thursday) I got the train back from Turkey Street (18:15), and was surprised for a London Overground service that it operated semi-fast, missing out several stops. Is this rush hour practice going to continue. as it doesn't really fit in with the other Overground services, and will look even more out of place when operated with longitudinally seated 710s?

I was also surprised that I was on a Greater Anglia 317 too, 317342 I think, is this on loan to TfL? Nice to sit in first class with antimacassars on an Overground service!
 
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sjoh

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GA have leased one 317 to LO during peak hours only since LO took over these routes. The train you traveled on arrived into Liverpool St platform 4 and departed 12 minutes later as a GA service to Hertford East. This should cease once the 710s are introduced (or so we're told, despite the numbers not quite adding up...).

There actually still are a number of 1st class compartments in 317s that have been Overground-ified. If you can find one you'll still get a nice first class style seat!

From what I can ascertain, the reason for the skip-stopping in the contra-peak direction is to get trains back into LST to form outbound services. The LO West Anglia fleet is clearly already stretched, so it makes sense to try to use the trains efficiently. The stations skipped still have 4tph towards London during the peak, except they're all from Enfield Town. If this is the case then hopefully this should be solved by the 710's (but as mentioned, still not sure about the numbers working out!).
This could be a further reason for missing stops: the Cheshunt trains during the peak are off-pattern to the usual 15 min service down this route from Edmonton Green to LST. Essentially the usual quarter-hourly pattern alternating between Cheshunt and Enfield shifts to all Enfields with two 'extra' Cheshunts thrown into the mix at xx22/52 It's possible that the path works in the down direction but doesn't work with all stops included in the up direction.

I don't know absolutely, but those are my best guesses.
 
306024

306024

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Good guesses nevertheless.

When the LO service was split from GA it wasn’t possible to completely untangle the units as they were diagrammed rather efficiently, having to take into account Liverpool St platform working amongst pathing constraints too. You lose some if that efficiency when you ‘sectorise’, hence LO still have a couple if workings provided by GA units.
 
Mikey C

Mikey C

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sjoh said:
GA have leased one 317 to LO during peak hours only since LO took over these routes. The train you traveled on arrived into Liverpool St platform 4 and departed 12 minutes later as a GA service to Hertford East. This should cease once the 710s are introduced (or so we're told, despite the numbers not quite adding up...).

There actually still are a number of 1st class compartments in 317s that have been Overground-ified. If you can find one you'll still get a nice first class style seat!

From what I can ascertain, the reason for the skip-stopping in the contra-peak direction is to get trains back into LST to form outbound services. The LO West Anglia fleet is clearly already stretched, so it makes sense to try to use the trains efficiently. The stations skipped still have 4tph towards London during the peak, except they're all from Enfield Town. If this is the case then hopefully this should be solved by the 710's (but as mentioned, still not sure about the numbers working out!).
This could be a further reason for missing stops: the Cheshunt trains during the peak are off-pattern to the usual 15 min service down this route from Edmonton Green to LST. Essentially the usual quarter-hourly pattern alternating between Cheshunt and Enfield shifts to all Enfields with two 'extra' Cheshunts thrown into the mix at xx22/52 It's possible that the path works in the down direction but doesn't work with all stops included in the up direction.

I don't know absolutely, but those are my best guesses.
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Thanks, it all seemed a bit odd, for an Overgrounded service to be operated by another operator, and to run fast in this way! It'll be interesting to see how the services change once the 710s arrive, and they are presumably fully split

There will quite a contrast between the Overground 710s and GA 720s, I wonder if passengers who can access both will gravitate towards the services via Tottenham Hale to get the more comfy trains?
 
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OvergroundMatt

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Passengers traveling all the way from Liverpool Street / Hackney Downs to Cheshunt are highly unlikely to use the LO service now, as it is significantly slower than the GA route via Tottenham Hale.
 
Mikey C

Mikey C

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OvergroundMatt said:
Passengers traveling all the way from Liverpool Street / Hackney Downs to Cheshunt are highly unlikely to use the LO service now, as it is significantly slower than the GA route via Tottenham Hale.
Click to expand...

I was thinking more about people using the intermediate stations, as the lines from Cheshunt via Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale are only a short distance apart, so many people will have a choice of using either line (Turkey Street or Enfield Lock, White Hart Lane or Northumberland Park etc)
 
Be3G

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I always used to find that there was a greater chance of getting a seat at Turkey Street than there was at Enfield Lock, so even considering the reduced seating on the new LO trains they might still be easier to sit down on than the GA service. Having said that, I moved out of the area at about the same time that LO moved in, so maybe the line is a bit more popular now?

Speaking of which, it always used to frustrate me how at times of – frequent! – service disruption the Southbury loop was always the first to lose/sacrifice its services, which in turn meant I was more likely to just go straight to ENL despite it being slightly further away. It'd be interesting to know if others felt the same way and therefore perhaps created a bit of a suppressed demand effect.
 
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700007

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Yes there's a few scheduled fast runs in the morning that go London Liverpool Street, Hackney Downs, Seven Sisters, Edmonton Green, Southbury, Turkey Street, Theobalds Grove and Cheshunt. In the evening it returns as Theobalds Grove, Turkey Street, Southbury, Edmonton Green, Seven Sisters, Stoke Newington, Hackney Downs and London Liverpool Street.
 
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