Merseyrail and Giants event

M60lad said:

East Midlands Trains are putting additional carriages on their Nottingham-Liverpool services today as a result their not calling at Widnes or Hunts Cross and they are advising passenger to only travel if absolutely necessary.

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How ridiculous. You would think we were at war.

So is doing the Saturday shop or taking the kids to a party “absolutely necessary”?

trainophile said:

How ridiculous. You would think we were at war.

So is doing the Saturday shop or taking the kids to a party “absolutely necessary”?

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Depends if you think taking kids on crush loaded trains populated particularly later on by those somewhat in drink and not averse to the odd fight in a confined space is a pleasant leisure journey.

Forewarned is forearmed as they say. If it makes them think 'maybe we shall drive to the Saturday shop' then it's all for the best.

I won't take a train up there unless I'm contractually obliged to at present along with many of the rest of the crews which should say something. The last few weeks have seen fights, 20 plus minute dwell times due to overcrowding, assaults on crews implied and actual and so on.

EMT are making an effort - they're paying overtime to other grades like revenue protection and first class hosts to assist the guards on board today as well as sending managers along.

M60lad said:

East Midlands Trains are putting additional carriages on their Nottingham-Liverpool services today as a result their not calling at Widnes or Hunts Cross and they are advising passenger to only travel if absolutely necessary.

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Are they providing rail replacement buses for the folk of Widnes who might have wanted to travel?

LowLevel said:

sending managers along.

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I hadn't realised it was that bad!

Well i’m On my way to South Parkway later today, for onward travel to Southport. Hoping that boarding at the turn point may get me a seat, and that the train will empty and refill at Central or Moorfields (can’t remember which is which).

Thank goodness it will all be over by my return on Monday.

Does not wasting two Advance tickets count as absolutely necessary?

Pleased to say I was granted a taxi at Chester last night with my return half of my Milton Keynes to Capenhurst ticket.

An initial refusal and some blurb about it being advertised for two weeks but I told them they had an obligation as I had a ticket. Quick phone call and I was on my way.

I’ve always found the staff at Chester pretty fair though.

Bletchleyite said:

Merseyrail typically operates nowhere near capacity - there is no suppressed demand of the kind there is with seriously overcrowded Northern.

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Have you actually travelled on Northern Line services in the morning and evening peaks ? They seem pretty heavily used (even 6 car services) when I'm on them. Where are the Northern Rail services which are worse ?

B&I said:

Have you actually travelled on Northern Line services in the morning and evening peaks ? They seem pretty heavily used (even 6 car services) when I'm on them. Where are the Northern Rail services which are worse ?

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I've been on loads and not been on loads more because they are statistically more likely to be cancelled making the following ones more crowded.

Having spoken to a number of people trying to leave Lime Street last night, who ended up in drastic queues for.packed trains, and having travelled on a crowded (but not packed) Chester service, it sounds as if Merseyrail.may in fact have done a better job yesterday at least than the other TOCs 'serving' Liverpool. Still, in the absence of RRBs it reamins a case of 'could do better'

B&I said:

Having spoken to a number of people trying to leave Lime Street last night, who ended up in drastic queues for.packed trains, and having travelled on a crowded (but not packed) Chester service, it sounds as if Merseyrail.may in fact have done a better job yesterday at least than the other TOCs 'serving' Liverpool. Still, in the absence of RRBs it reamins a case of 'could do better'

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Seems like Northern (for a change) were the toc that really struggled over the weekend with reported short forming of services, Saturday's strike and the ongoing Sunday staffing problems leading to many cancellations

B&I said:

Having spoken to a number of people trying to leave Lime Street last night, who ended up in drastic queues for.packed trains, and having travelled on a crowded (but not packed) Chester service, it sounds as if Merseyrail.may in fact have done a better job yesterday at least than the other TOCs 'serving' Liverpool. Still, in the absence of RRBs it remains a case of 'could do better'

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Well it was a wonderful weekend. Estimated about a million people to have seen the event over the three days. So I think Merseyrail did splendidly. Long queues to get into Moorfields station on Saturday, but they were moving quickly and monitored efficiently (people for different northbound destinations asked to queue in the subways and allowed onto the platform at the appropriate time). My train was full but not uncomfortably crowded. Everybody (staff and punters alike) were good-humoured and co-operative. It's great for the city to host events like this (sadly it will be the last visit of the giants) and it is amazing how the infrastructure which is designed to cope with much smaller numbers and predictable traffic flows, actually copes.

LowLevel said:

it's all for the best.

I won't take a train up there unless I'm contractually obliged to at present along with many of the rest of the crews which should say something. The last few weeks have seen fights, 20 plus minute dwell times due to overcrowding, assaults on crews implied and actual and so on.

EMT are making an effort - they're paying overtime to other grades like revenue protection and first class hosts to assist the guards on board today as well as sending managers along.

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I don't think losing the Scarborough service from the South Parkway-Warrington-Piccadilly line into Yorkshire and Scarborough has helped. It's created more of a bottle neck on what was already a busy service.

gazzaa2 said:

I don't think losing the Scarborough service from the South Parkway-Warrington-Piccadilly line into Yorkshire and Scarborough has helped. It's created more of a bottle neck on what was already a busy service.

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But it removed the need for that service to cross the Manchester Piccadilly throat to reach platform 13/14, and onto the country's most unreliable line.

Which has since been replaced by services crossing Victoria to reach Manchester airport via Manchester Oxford road, which instead could have been routed more sensibly to Liverpool, if removing conflicts and introducing efficiency was the priority.

EMT are being slung off the route now too, with it being split into two. So Warrington may well end up with northern only services, since it can't be trusted that TPE would be told to keep running a Nottingham to Liverpool service, versus a Nottingham to Manchester airport one.

Merseyrail and their staff deserve a gold star. Got to Moorfields Saturday and there were queues down the street so thought I'd be shuffling along for ages. However everything was handled very efficiently so took 20 mins till I was on a train. Good humoured team and not a "jobsworth" in sight

Bletchleyite said:

Do we know who required said nannying - might it have been the BTP?

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Bache is normally unstaffed so I totally reject the notion that having one there is 'nannying'.

Of course, they should be a permenenent member of staff employed by the TOC and trained to assist, not a nameless contract security guard given no Railway specific training.

Starmill said:

Bache is normally unstaffed so I totally reject the notion that having one there is 'nannying'.

Of course, they should be a permenenent member of staff employed by the TOC and trained to assist, not a nameless contract security guard given no Railway specific training.

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There is no need for station staff of any kind at Capenhurst and Bache, they just aren't busy enough. No way would they be staffed in Northernland.

I wonder if someone did an RA (be that Merseyrail or BTP) and decided all stations must have at least two staff as there would be crowds, totally disregarding the fact that even if 10 times as many passengers travelled from Capenhurst, or Aughton Park, or Overpool. there would still be nothing approaching "crowds".

But what I do think is that Merseyrail were outrageously arrogant in not even attempting to explain why.

jamesst said:

Seems like Northern (for a change) were the toc that really struggled over the weekend with reported short forming of services, Saturday's strike and the ongoing Sunday staffing problems leading to many cancellations

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I travelled to Liverpool for the Giants on Sunday. Services packed to the roof or cancelled, nothing in between.

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Bletchleyite said:

There is no need for station staff of any kind at Capenhurst and Bache, they just aren't busy enough.

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Bache has close to 400,000 annual users so this is total nonsense in my opinion. There are a great many stations with fewer estimated annual users - do you promose de-staffing these stations of the grounds of lack of use?

• Liskeard*
• Hanwell*
• Portchester
• Giffnock
• Malvern Link
• Montrose
• Malton
• Skegness*
• East Midlands Parkway*
• Bridgwater
• Redruth*
• Bromborough Rake*
• Walton (Merseyside)*
• Haverfordwest
• Old Hill

*Staffed full time

No way would they be staffed in Northernland.

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I don't mean to be too rude, but I have to say that you have had this kind of thing pointed out to you many times before. Do you ever actually do any checking before you make these sort of sweeping claims? Many such stations which are managed by Northern are staffed:

• Gatley
• Alnmouth
• Buckshaw Parkway
• Redcar Central
• Congleton
• Hindley
• Hadfield
• Hexham
• Atherton
• Guide Bridge
• Buxton
• Romiley
• Mossley
• Roby*
• Mossley Hill*
• Eccles
• Workington
• Gorton
• Burnley Central

This would be a fairly long list.

Loop & Link said:

I don’t think you appreciate how busy Bache can be.

And Bache was certainly very crowded at times over the Giants weekend, hence the reason for platform staff, definitely justified.

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Justified for what? Are people not able to wait without being herded? Are they needed at peak times in the morning and evening?

Anyway, glad it was a successful weekend and the passengers got to/from the Giants.

However, I do hope that if another big event happens in Liverpool, Merseyrail thinks very carefully about neglecting passengers not going to the event.

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Bache has twice the number of users that Old Hill does too, and that's staffed 6 days a week. The ratio is even more in Bache's favour when you compare it to Eccles, Burnley Central or Gorton.

nedchester said:

Justified for what? Are people not able to wait without being herded? Are they needed at peak times in the morning and evening?

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I hope you realise that commuters - doing the same journey five times a week every week for many years - need less instruction than people going to an event who possibly have not used the railway in many years and are not familiar with the environment!

causton said:

I hope you realise that commuters - doing the same journey five times a week every week for many years - need less instruction than people going to an event who possibly have not used the railway in many years and are not familiar with the environment!

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Which says it all about what I said earlier about nannying..........allows the great British public to expect to not use an ounce of common sense.

nedchester said:

Which says it all about what I said earlier about nannying..........allows the great British public to expect to not use an ounce of common sense.

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.... or it gives people who might not have used a train before for years on end the reassurance about what ticket to buy and where from, where they need to change on their journey or which platfor and the best place on the platform to wait for the train is, or what help is available if they need it or....

A couple of my own experiences based on staying with family a short distance from Birkenhead North:

On Friday we headed for New Brighton at about 9.30; there was a queue of about 20-30 people however two or three Merseyrail staff with ticket machines were issuing tickets for those paying with cash and most of the delay was down to people using cards and needing to use the ticket window. As a result, we missed the first train we'd gone for and ended up on one 20 minutes later. Staff on the platform were encouraging passengers to use the full length of the platform, and it was needed as soon as an incoming train from West Kirby arrived- people from the second unit of the West Kirby train were held on the bridge to await the next train. Although we had seats, the number of prams and pushchairs meant that it was difficult for anybody else to board at the Wallasey stations. Due to the grey and drizzly weather, many people headed for home at the lunch break- the only problem with the return service was that a full train had to wait time in the station for 7-8 minutes while people were waiting in the drizzle although again we were on the next train, and at least the station manager was walking up and down encouraging people to fold pushchairs - fortunately New Brighton station was built to be able to deal with crowds.

On Sunday we set out for Liverpool at about 8.45- there was less of a queue at Birkenhead North and on arriving at Liverpool Central the barriers were already set out (one for Chester/Ellesmere Port and one for West Kirby/New Brighton). At the end of the event, however, the crush of people in the Canning Dock area was such that it actually took 10-15 minutes to leave the area (again not helped by people using prams, pushchairs and a shopping trolley like snowploughs in confined spaces!) and we decided to head for the ferry rather than walk back to Central- those ferries really can swallow a crowd and I honestly don't think that ours to Woodside left more than about half a dozen people behind- the train we boarded at Hamilton Square didn't seem to have any standing passengers and again waited time at Birkenhead North.

From a people side of things, the Merseyrail staff I saw entered into the spirit of thing and were a credit to their employer- as has been stated several times above, however, the main issue was the lack of official guidance for people who wanted to do something other than go to the Giants event and particularly the absence of any connection between the city centre stations.

I was one of those who had other business over the weekend. Spital station was closed as was Liverpool Lime Street Low level. So I got a bus through the tunnel. What wasn't made clear was that buses from Wirral were re-routed when leaving the tunnel to The Strand which is 0.7 miles from Lime Street. They weren't allowed to stop before The Strand even though there are other buss tops on the way. Later that evening I presumed that things would revert to normal but no, some buses ran as normal from Sir Thomas but other were still leaving from The Strand. Of course, mine was from the Strand which meant that I missed it. Coupled with Northern's strike which meant there were no trains from Lancaster to my destination in Morecambe it wasn't a good day for me transport wise. The icing(?) on the cake was that I's bought my train ticket in advance from Hamilton Square because I knew that Spital would be shut. I specifically asked for Saturday 6th and even explained why. On the day I was horrified to find that I'd been sold a ticket for the day of purchase, not the day of travel. I had to buy new tickets. I will be writing to Merseytravel seeking a refund and expressing my displeasure at the hassle caused.

Birkonian said:

Coupled with Northern's strike which meant there were no trains from Lancaster to my destination in Morecambe it wasn't a good day for me transport wise.

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If you were going for the Tranmere game it was a good day otherwise!

jamesst said:

Seems like Northern (for a change) were the toc that really struggled over the weekend with reported short forming of services, Saturday's strike and the ongoing Sunday staffing problems leading to many cancellations

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I assume 'just for a change' was a mite sarcastic