First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

carlberry · 9 Oct 2018

Dai Corner said:
Though older customers will probably recognise 376 as a 'country' service

They will for this one, however the drivers don't have the same contempt for short riders as they used to! (And that included waiting whilst an OAP clambered onto something like a Bristol MW before telling them that they were a 'country' service and making them clamber off again!)

RailUK Forums

CD · 9 Oct 2018

Back in the days of Badgerline and City Line, fares for internal Bristol journeys on 376 were higher than City Line to deter local short distance trips. I`m not saying this could be done now days but it worked then. People would see a 376 and stand back from the kerb.

freetoview33 · 9 Oct 2018

CD said:
Back in the days of Badgerline and City Line, fares for internal Bristol journeys on 376 were higher than City Line to deter local short distance trips. I`m not saying this could be done now days but it worked then. People would see a 376 and stand back from the kerb.

I'm getting the 376 tomorrow so will have another look at the distribution of passengers

Private Baxter · 9 Oct 2018

CD said:
Back in the days of Badgerline and City Line, fares for internal Bristol journeys on 376 were higher than City Line to deter local short distance trips. I`m not saying this could be done now days but it worked then. People would see a 376 and stand back from the kerb.

Regretfully I can't see that working nowadays. Good idea though!

I too am impressed with how much the 376 has grown over the last few years. Until 2004 it was an hourly service run with single deck B10BLEs. And whilst I don't see a 20 minute frequency happening in the next couple of years, there's no reason to think it won't happen in the future, perhaps with, as GW suggests, a different choice of vehicle, though what might be preferred in the next few years remains to be seen.

LeylandLynx · 9 Oct 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
Put deckers on the 2A

There were two on there today. Guess which one I had? 32229. First like putting Plaxton Presidents on the 2A. Unfortunately the 376 AND the 2 got in front on the Wells Road.

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Oct 2018

Private Baxter said:
Regretfully I can't see that working nowadays. Good idea though!

I too am impressed with how much the 376 has grown over the last few years. Until 2004 it was an hourly service run with single deck B10BLEs. And whilst I don't see a 20 minute frequency happening in the next couple of years, there's no reason to think it won't happen in the future, perhaps with, as GW suggests, a different choice of vehicle, though what might be preferred in the next few years remains to be seen.

This is a bit of a pattern across the country (to an extent). Local services (such as those in South or East Bristol) are under increasing pressure from traffic congestion and also the decline of local town centres (such as Kingswood or the Broadwalk in Knowle). Also, you're seeing fewer fare payers as a percentage, and we all know the issue of ENCTS remuneration.

Conversely, the inter-urban services such as the 376 are enjoying strong growth from commuters but also leisure passengers. Same goes for the Wells to Bath corridor, necessitating the conversion to deckers. Seem to recall that Express Yourself had a similar impact on the North Somerset routes and would be interesting to see if that has continued with Excel.

freetoview33 · 10 Oct 2018

If there was a park and ride on the A37 who would use it?

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Oct 2018

freetoview33 said:
If there was a park and ride on the A37 who would use it?

The A37 road traffic is naturally a mix of long distance traffic, and more local journeys. Those local ones tend to come from

Villages en route like Farrington and Clutton
The Norton Radstock area (joining at Hallatrow and Farrington)
Some Eastern parts of the Chew Valley
Wells et al (from the A39)
Shepton

However, the problem would be where to locate it. You'd have to use green belt land so let's say you put it near the Garden Centre outside Whitchurch. Aside from the planning issues, you'd be onto the A37 and suffering the same traffic issues through Whitchurch Village and past Gilda Square. There is some scope for additional bus lanes from there to just before Happy Landings but then it would have to stop to allow the traffic to access the left turn on the Airport Road. There is a bit of bus lane up into and from the Broadwalk and then a bit more to the Three Lamps but it's a bit hit and miss so don't know how it will work. That said, better bus priority on the Wells Road would be better especially in terms of enforcement on those bits that do exist.

wiltshirebloke · 10 Oct 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
The A37 road traffic is naturally a mix of long distance traffic, and more local journeys. Those local ones tend to come from

Villages en route like Farrington and Clutton

The Norton Radstock area (joining at Hallatrow and Farrington)

Some Eastern parts of the Chew Valley

Wells et al (from the A39)

Shepton

However, the problem would be where to locate it. You'd have to use green belt land so let's say you put it near the Garden Centre outside Whitchurch. Aside from the planning issues, you'd be onto the A37 and suffering the same traffic issues through Whitchurch Village and past Gilda Square. There is some scope for additional bus lanes from there to just before Happy Landings but then it would have to stop to allow the traffic to access the left turn on the Airport Road. There is a bit of bus lane up into and from the Broadwalk and then a bit more to the Three Lamps but it's a bit hit and miss so don't know how it will work. That said, better bus priority on the Wells Road would be better especially in terms of enforcement on those bits that do exist.

I'll never understand why the old railway line that runs between Callington Road and St Philips wasn't sought to be some sort of expressway - This could have been handy for both the Brislington P&R and any potential A37 scheme could turn right at the Airport Rd lights and access down the side of Tesco. Looking at Google maps most of it is tarmac'd in some state, but obviously some bits used as access,carparking for various adjoining buildings now.

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Oct 2018

wiltshirebloke said:
I'll never understand why the old railway line that runs between Callington Road and St Philips wasn't sought to be some sort of expressway - This could have been handy for both the Brislington P&R and any potential A37 scheme could turn right at the Airport Rd lights and access down the side of Tesco. Looking at Google maps most of it is tarmac'd in some state, but obviously some bits used as access,carparking for various adjoining buildings now.

It has - http://www.westofengland.org/media/190260/callington link options assessment v2.pdf

Were it to happen, that would certainly relieve congestion and better to do that and increase the amount of bus lanes on the A4 and A37 that should, IMHO, be 24 hour bus lanes anyway.

As for locations for additional park and ride sites, the A37 wouldn't be my first choice given the relatively limited scope as it serves a relatively rural hinterland. Instead, perhaps a Northern location would be best such as Hambrook? Similarly, should a new junction (18a?) be built, something there would also be handy.

ooo · 10 Oct 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
Instead, perhaps a Northern location would be best such as Hambrook? Similarly, should a new junction (18a?) be built, something there would also be handy.

How busy does the Lyde Green Park and Ride get?

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Oct 2018

ooo said:
How busy does the Lyde Green Park and Ride get?

Very - was fully yesterday lunchtime but it is tiny! Others concerns are how many are park and riders, how many are local residents, and how many are actually workers in the science park who park there and walk?

carlberry · 10 Oct 2018

A quick visit to Bath today. Lots of traffic and road works! A nice time warp with NBC 'Venetian blind' livery on a double decker from Dekkabus on the U1 plus a Snowdonia Travel Optare on the U1. One of the ex Aberdeen artics out plus two of the ex Kernow Tridents (one on the X39 - surely this deserves better!) and one of the P&R hybrids working on the (flat!) Newbridge route.

Jordan Adam · 11 Oct 2018

Tommy Walters said:
Another video showing a U1 queue today (remarkably) shows 10037 operating, so evidently my theory that the Aberdeen vehicles would replace the 2 W-reg ones was wrong!!

The 2 W Reg Aritcs being replaced by the Aberdeen cascades was the plan, but as with many things these days the plans may have changed!

WelshBluebird · 11 Oct 2018

Already mentioned in the Cityfox thread, but incase anyone here hasn't seen it, at least one of their buses is helping out with the U1 in Bath still (saw it yesterday evening).
I wonder how long First will be using third parties to help support the service - can't be a long term thing surely? Presumably they are hoping once the start of term becomes a distant memory and the road works on Lower Bristol Road / Brougham Hayes are over, the normal service level will be able to satisfy demand?

Whiteway215 · 11 Oct 2018

WelshBluebird said:
Already mentioned in the Cityfox thread, but incase anyone here hasn't seen it, at least one of their buses is helping out with the U1 in Bath still (saw it yesterday evening).
I wonder how long First will be using third parties to help support the service - can't be a long term thing surely? Presumably they are hoping once the start of term becomes a distant memory and the road works on Lower Bristol Road / Brougham Hayes are over, the normal service level will be able to satisfy demand?

According to B&NES Council the roadworks at Brougham Hayes were scheduled for five weeks from 10 September so that should take them up to the end of this week, although I don't know if they are on schedule.
The gas pipe roadworks that caused so much chaos to the U2 and Ralph Allen School transport were not finished. These roadworks are scheduled to start again from 27 October for ten days until 4 November but this time there is a road closure order in place between Combe Road and Hadley Road. At least before there were traffic signals so the traffic got through (eventually!) Of course this is half-term week for the schools but I dread to think which way the Uni students will end up going on the U2.

BBC · 13 Oct 2018

LeylandLynx said:
The problem is though, that the 2 and the 2A are really struggling at the moment in the afternoon rush hour. Any cuts to the 376 would just make it worse, unless you plan a frequency increase of the 2 and 2A.

Struggling is an understatement, been driving the 2 this week and it’s been terrible.

freetoview33 · 13 Oct 2018

When I was at Temple Meads the other day I had a look at the tt and looks like the 50 and 2a are timed to leave almost at the same time. Loads of other examples of services that should interwork but the timetables don't work. Which I do think exasibates issues in certain areas.

LeylandLynx · 13 Oct 2018

BBC said:
Struggling is an understatement, been driving the 2 this week and it’s been terrible.

Damn. I heard that the 2 has been pretty bad. A week or two ago, on a Tuesday evening, the city centre was gridlocked due to emergency roadworks, and there was no 2, 2a, 50 or 50a going through the Horsefair for ages and big crowds of people at bus stops formed. And then they all showed up at the same time. Of course, the 2a was a saloon which had standing room only after the first two stops, but by the time we got to Temple Meads, I looked over at the 2 and it looked so full that there were people standing in the doorway. Is that even legal?

freetoview33 · 13 Oct 2018

Think about the days not too long ago when Stockwood had 10bph

LeylandLynx · 13 Oct 2018

freetoview33 said:
When I was at Temple Meads the other day I had a look at the tt and looks like the 50 and 2a are timed to leave almost at the same time.

The 50a and the 2a outbound journeys are timed to leave at the same time, as they're both timed to run every 15 minutes with the 50. But the morning peak 50 runs every 15 minutes with no 50a, so that might be why.

freetoview33 said:
Think about the days not too long ago when Stockwood had 10bph

Whitchurch used to have 12bph at Belland Drive duing peak times. But I used to live in Stockwood when it had more buses too during my childhood. There was the 54, 55 and 57.

TheGrandWazoo · 13 Oct 2018

LeylandLynx said:
The 50a and the 2a outbound journeys are timed to leave at the same time, as they're both timed to run every 15 minutes with the 50. But the morning peak 50 runs every 15 minutes with no 50a, so that might be why.

Whitchurch used to have 12bph at Belland Drive duing peak times. But I used to live in Stockwood when it had more buses too during my childhood. There was the 54, 55 and 57.

You are right, of course, though things have changed in that time. Car ownership has gone up whilst, and I know I'm repeating myself

, the demographics of the area have changed. Whitchurch in the 1970s was full of young first time buyers, growing families and the like. When you're there now, it's like Cocoon with that many pensioners. Whilst there's good loads in the peak on the 2/2A, it certainly is a lot thinner off peak and naturally dominated by pensioners.

As for the decline of the Stockwood routes, even Abus couldn't keep the 57 going though you also have to look at how the X39 has grown and how that overshadowed the 349 and 57 taking the traffic out of Brislington.

Whilst Bristol is enjoying good growth of bus patronage, it does vary markedly across the city

LeylandLynx · 13 Oct 2018

One more thing I would like to add, was back in those days, all of those routes were single-decker operated. Now they're virtually all decker operated.

Marcus Fryer · 13 Oct 2018

On 35163. We've ground to a halt on the climb out of Wells (Bristol Hill).

BBC · 13 Oct 2018

LeylandLynx said:
Damn. I heard that the 2 has been pretty bad. A week or two ago, on a Tuesday evening, the city centre was gridlocked due to emergency roadworks, and there was no 2, 2a, 50 or 50a going through the Horsefair for ages and big crowds of people at bus stops formed. And then they all showed up at the same time. Of course, the 2a was a saloon which had standing room only after the first two stops, but by the time we got to Temple Meads, I looked over at the 2 and it looked so full that there were people standing in the doorway. Is that even legal?

The 2 needs a serious rethink in my opinion, it needs to go back to two separate routes. It’s not workable I’m rush hour and the customers are suffering. And no it’s not, but what can we do as drivers if someone has been waiting 50 minutes for a bus service that should be every 12 ?

LeylandLynx · 13 Oct 2018

BBC said:
The 2 needs a serious rethink in my opinion, it needs to go back to two separate routes. It’s not workable I’m rush hour and the customers are suffering. And no it’s not, but what can we do as drivers if someone has been waiting 50 minutes for a bus service that should be every 12 ?

The 75 has the same problem. That one has been especially bad, I've heard. I think it's too long, it's basically two routes stitched together, and loads of vehicles always got bunched together. Though the M1 Metrobus should be starting in January, and should help take pressure off the 75. But didn't the 2 and 75 both used to be every 10 minutes, but got reduced to 12? I didn't know though that the 54 used to be two routes, for as long as I can remember during the City Line days the 54 used to always go at least as far as Southmead.

-Colly405- · 13 Oct 2018

I can't see the M1 having much impact on the 75. Looking at the M1 map, it looks more like it will impact the 90. It doesn't serve Bishopsworth, Withywood or Hartcliffe.

freetoview33 · 13 Oct 2018

In 2008 there were very detailed plans for 75/75A/76/77 to become the 75/76/95/96

freetoview33 · 13 Oct 2018

The proposals were basically

Extend the all the 75's from Filton to Cribbs Causeway (As a few still terminated at Royal Mail) - Which happened
Withdraw the 75A, which ran directly along Hartcliffe Way to Somerfield HQ - Which happened (Ironically rather similar to the M1)
Merge the 76 and 77, so all buses served Southmead and Henbury - Which happened.

Then what didn't happen.

Split the 75/76 in two so there would have been

75: Centre (Broad Quay) - Cribbs Causeway (Via Filton)
76: Centre (Broad Quay) - Henbury (Via Southmead)

Then the 95 and 96 would have been the South Bristol sections but in the Centre would have done a loop to additionally served Temple Meads.

From comments on the Bristol Post at the time had more comments for it than against.

freetoview33 · 13 Oct 2018

Also the A2 will be called "Air Connect" - Bristol Tickets will be valid in the Inner Zone and West of England tickets to the Airport.

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