National Express - Joining one stop Late

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Has anyone ever successfully boarded a service the stop after they are supposed to ?

I am due to travel from Cardiff to Birmingham on Friday but was wondering if I would get away with getting on at the next stop (Newport) where I actually live. I regularly get off in Newport on the Birmingham - Cardiff journey having booked a Cardiff ticket.

As each seat is sold separately there should still be my seat available even if it is otherwise full (unlikely).

Thought of saying I woke up late or some other bull.

The reason I always book Cardiff to Birmingham and back is that it's a lot cheaper than booking Newport for some obscure reason.

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yorkie · 10 Oct 2018

I think that's the biggest risk.

However the driver might legitimately refuse you entry even if not full because of condition 4.13:
https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage

You may not board or leave any service except at the starting, or finishing, point of your journey, save for any mid journey refreshment break permitted in Clause 4.11 above.

Butts said:
The reason I always book Cardiff to Birmingham and back is that it's a lot cheaper than booking Newport for some obscure reason.

I assume this is to be consistent with the aviation and railway industries

Perhaps a higher proportion of people travelling from Cardiff will consider plane travel, and therefore the price has to be lower to attract them. Newport people are less likely to go west to the airport maybe, so are less price sensitive? Or maybe it's a mistake and the fare from Cardiff is too cheap? I don't know, but anything is possible.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2018

Nat Ex take walk-up passengers so you could be considered a no-show and your seat sold from under you, as it were.

Starmill · 10 Oct 2018

I might have tried it on, in a parallel universe, by asking very politely and acting dumb if necessary.

However, I would not have posted publicly to say that I'm deliberately ignoring the conditions, admitting that that was for no reason but my own monetary advantage and that I'd be lying about my reasons for it, before then then trying it!

Of course as Bletchleyite notes, the coach may be fully booked. So you'd be stuck in that case.

radamfi · 10 Oct 2018

Butts said:
it's a lot cheaper than booking Newport for some obscure reason.

Megabus operate Cardiff to Birmingham but not Newport to Birmingham. So cheaper from Cardiff as more competition.

talltim · 10 Oct 2018

You may not board or leave any service except at the starting, or finishing, point of your journey, save for any mid journey refreshment break permitted in Clause 4.11 above.

That’s ok. You board at Newport, the starting point of your journey... Doesn’t say anything about ticket validity though.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

yorkie said:
I think that's the biggest risk.

However the driver might legitimately refuse you entry even if not full because of condition 4.13:
https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/conditions-of-carriage

I assume this is to be consistent with the aviation and railway industries

Perhaps a higher proportion of people travelling from Cardiff will consider plane travel, and therefore the price has to be lower to attract them. Newport people are less likely to go west to the airport maybe, so are less price sensitive? Or maybe it's a mistake and the fare from Cardiff is too cheap? I don't know, but anything is possible.

From Cardiff to Birmingham !!!! - is that a new service.

With regard to condition 4.13 - I have always stopped short - ie got off in Newport on a Cardiff Ticket. No one has said a dickie bird even when I have been the only person to get off and no one has got on. Perhaps I could offer to pay a surcharge on boarding. I have never seen a walk up in all the journeys I have made.

The reason I get the coach rather than the train is the fares between Cardiff/Newport and Birmingham are expensive - particularly my favoured 1st Class. when I lived in Falkirk you could get to Newcastle for a lot less for a similar journey length and I wouldn't have dreamed of using a coach.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
Nat Ex take walk-up passengers so you could be considered a no-show and your seat sold from under you, as it were.

Highly unlikely - normally half full at best and walk up's are rare as hens teeth.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Starmill said:
I might have tried it on, in a parallel universe, by asking very politely and acting dumb if necessary.

However, I would not have posted publicly to say that I'm deliberately ignoring the conditions, admitting that that was for no reason but my own monetary advantage and that I'd be lying about my reasons for it, before then then trying it!

Of course as Bletchleyite notes, the coach may be fully booked. So you'd be stuck in that case.

Normally I get the Bus from Newport to Cardiff and walk down to Sophia Gardens and have a coffee before crossing the bridge to the Coach Station. Friday is forecast to be peeing with rain.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2018

Butts said:
Highly unlikely - normally half full at best and walk up's are rare as hens teeth.

You get them at MK Coachway as due to delays people just want to take the next coach to London rather than risk booking one that ends up late. I suspect it's very rare for long distance journeys, though. Particularly as it's cash only and some drivers don't like doing it.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
You get them at MK Coachway as due to delays people just want to take the next coach to London rather than risk booking one that ends up late. I suspect it's very rare for long distance journeys, though. Particularly as it's cash only and some drivers don't like doing it.

In theory I can board the Coach anytime up until it leaves Cardiff. How can they sell someone a ticket on the basis that someone might not turn up ?

The Services are every few hours not 30 min intervals !!!

Starmill · 10 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
You get them at MK Coachway as due to delays people just want to take the next coach to London rather than risk booking one that ends up late. I suspect it's very rare for long distance journeys, though. Particularly as it's cash only and some drivers don't like doing it.

Walk-up NX fares can be booked on ticket machines in some bus terminals. I think London Victoria even has a ticket desk? Likely to be a booking fee by this method, though.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2018

Starmill said:
Walk-up NX fares can be booked on ticket machines in some bus terminals. I think London Victoria even has a ticket desk? Likely to be a booking fee by this method, though.

Those aren't unreserved walk-ups in that sense, though, they are last minute bookings with reservation. I've done it...then 5 minutes later the coach I'd booked showed an hour's delay. Fortunately the driver of the next one (which got there first) agreed to take me, which is the other way a no-show seat can be filled.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2018

Butts said:
In theory I can board the Coach anytime up until it leaves Cardiff. How can they sell someone a ticket on the basis that someone might not turn up ?

They would be asked to wait until the driver was going to close up at departure time, then sold one at that point.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Starmill said:
Walk-up NX fares can be booked on ticket machines in some bus terminals. I think London Victoria even has a ticket desk? Likely to be a booking fee by this method, though.

This is South Wales not London - no such machines !!!

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
They would be asked to wait until the driver was going to close up at departure time, then sold one at that point.

That would be useful were it not for the fact the office is far away and not visible from where the coaches depart.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2018

Butts said:
That would be useful were it not for the fact the office is far away and not visible from where the coaches depart.

I think you are misunderstanding. This kind of ticket is sold by the driver, written out by hand and paid for by exact amount cash only.

You can buy from the TVM or office, but only if there are bookable seats available.

Butts · 10 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
I think you are misunderstanding. This kind of ticket is sold by the driver, written out by hand and paid for by exact amount cash only.

You can buy from the TVM or office, but only if there are bookable seats available.

Ah sorry I understand what you mean. I can honestly say in my many journeys between Cardiff and Birmingham I have never witnessed this happen.

peterblue · 10 Oct 2018

Why not take the bus/train to Cardiff if it offers a large monetary saving? It saves the unnecessary confrontation with a NX driver who might not necessarily allow you on board at Newport. If you get an unlucky "jobsworth" type driver you'll be waiting a long time for your next coach if you are refused entry.

atraindriver · 11 Oct 2018

Butts · 11 Oct 2018

peterblue said:
Why not take the bus/train to Cardiff if it offers a large monetary saving? It saves the unnecessary confrontation with a NX driver who might not necessarily allow you on board at Newport. If you get an unlucky "jobsworth" type driver you'll be waiting a long time for your next coach if you are refused entry.

As I alluded to in an earlier post that's what I normally do, the weather is against me this week for a "T in the Park"

I'm tempted to try just to see the reaction - nothing ventured nothing gained.

If all else fails there is a convoluted bus to Hereford on a Network Rider and Train from there to Birmingham that is better than a direct fare.

Bungle965 · 11 Oct 2018

Starmill said:
Walk-up NX fares can be booked on ticket machines in some bus terminals. I think London Victoria even has a ticket desk? Likely to be a booking fee by this method, though.

Both Birmingham and Manchester have ticket desks as well as machines.
If I had time I used to go to the ticket office on account of not having to pay the booking fee and getting an actual ticket instead of one which you just print off.
Unfortunately they stopped that when they slapped a £4 charge on using the ticket desk.
Sam

goblinuser · 11 Oct 2018

I wouldn't risk it. I'm pretty sure NatEx skip stops if no tickets have been bought.

radamfi · 11 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
I think you are misunderstanding. This kind of ticket is sold by the driver, written out by hand and paid for by exact amount cash only.

Last time I got National Express, about 2 months ago, the driver had a handheld ticket machine and accepted contactless. Don't know if that can be done on all routes.

Bletchleyite · 11 Oct 2018

radamfi said:
Last time I got National Express, about 2 months ago, the driver had a handheld ticket machine and accepted contactless. Don't know if that can be done on all routes.

That I think is only on airport coaches.

radamfi · 11 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
That I think is only on airport coaches.

This was on the 540 Rochdale to London service. Someone got a ticket from Rochdale to Manchester and someone else got a ticket from Manchester Airport to London.

radamfi · 11 Oct 2018

Bungle965 said:
Unfortunately they stopped that when they slapped a £4 charge on using the ticket desk.
Sam

Are the machines still booking fee free?

Butts · 11 Oct 2018

goblinuser said:
I wouldn't risk it. I'm pretty sure NatEx skip stops if no tickets have been bought.

I've often wished this would happen when I've travelled to Cardiff to join the service as it is quite a diversion into Newport - not the mileage involved but often the traffic levels.

Ironically my buying a ticket to Cardiff planning to get off in Newport did once backfire when the service bypassed Newport as it was running late and presumeably no one had booked a ticket to Newport or was joining there.

Counter to that as I have mentioned earlier I have been the only person to alight in Newport having booked a ticket to Cardiff with no one joining the service.

As a matter of interest if I do not complete the outward leg between Cardiff and Birmingham is the return leg from Birmingham to Cardiff still valid ? My ticket is not an open return.

Bletchleyite · 11 Oct 2018

It would seem unlikely that Cardiff would be skipped, as it would be unlikely that no ticket would be sold from there. Though there is a risk that a relief coach would be put on, but it's more likely that the service car will do all stops and any relief be an express.

Bungle965 · 11 Oct 2018

goblinuser said:
I wouldn't risk it. I'm pretty sure NatEx skip stops if no tickets have been bought.

Drivers aren't meant to, however what happens in the real world is slightly different.
As if a customer let's say buys a ticket from Motherwell to Glasgow half an hour before the coach is due to arrive the driver would not be aware of this, and him trying to make up time by skipping the stop ends up with him in trouble and a not very happy passenger.

radamfi said:
Last time I got National Express, about 2 months ago, the driver had a handheld ticket machine and accepted contactless. Don't know if that can be done on all routes.

Bletchleyite said:
That I think is only on airport coaches.

No, not just the airport coaches .I believe they were meant to implement them on all coaches, they have the ability to issue and checks tickets.
Probably save allot of paper instead of drivers having to pick up a loading sheet at the start of every journey.
However the implementation of them hasn't gone great and you should find them on the vast majority of coaches, whether or not the drivers uses it is another matter.

radamfi said:
Are the machines still booking fee free?

No, they still stick a charge on.

National Express - Joining one stop Late

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