Unscheduled stops to swop train staff

When helping out by taking a short notice train to Ilford for tyre turning it wasn't uncommon for Control to authorise the next available IC service to stop & pick us up at the London end ramp so we could get back sooner.

From the old days. The Scandinavian back in the late 70s used to be diagrammed for a Parkeston crew from Harwich up to Liverpool St and back again. However if the ship was late (not uncommon) a Stratford crew would be scrambled to work the down train on time from Liverpool St, and change over with the Parkeston crew at Shenfield / Chelmsford / Witham or wherever appropriate.

Sleeper drivers change over at Warrington from time to time as well as Wigan. Not a regular thing though.

tsr said:

Staff stops at Selhurst or Norwood Junction (depending on the route an overnight train uses) are still very much alive and well. The stops on TL trains have historically been a much more closely-guarded secret for many years, but have become somewhat more necessary since the overnight Southern services were slashed for whatever actual reason (a sorry situation which allegedly was only temporarily, but in reality has become a near enough permanent absence on weeknights now).

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WE quite often changed drivers at Norwood with a couple of London Bridge to Uckfields, although since the new timetable arrived in May this practice doesnt seem to happen. The driver or the guard would sometimes make an announcement advising the doors will not open and this stop is for operational reasons.

I recall this happening whenever GWR Paddington services have to go via Greenford (or even start from Marylebone), Bicester and Oxford to get onto the GWML due to engineering work.

They're booked as fast from London to Swindon, but make an un-advertised stop at Oxford to allow the Chiltern driver to swap onto an Up service (as GWR drivers don't sign the route).

One night I was coming home from Vic to East Croydon, train made an unannounced top at Selhurst to let some depot workers on/off. Can't remember which way round it was but a passenger either boarded or alighted and was challenged by a staff member who said he wasn't allowed to do so. Whereupon the passenger threatened to report the driver for stopping when (in the words of the passenger) they shouldn't have done!

physics34 said:

WE quite often changed drivers at Norwood with a couple of London Bridge to Uckfields, although since the new timetable arrived in May this practice doesnt seem to happen. The driver or the guard would sometimes make an announcement advising the doors will not open and this stop is for operational reasons.

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Yep, no crew stops seem to exist on any of the diagrams now. IMO it's a good thing - it's more inconvenient for some drivers to change at East Croydon (since there are so few trains between ECR and Norwood Jn now) but there was always a considerable PTI risk due to passengers hammering on the doors as soon as any train stops at Norwood Junction, regardless of whether or not it's advertised or indeed in service! I have witnessed more than a couple of passengers attempt to board ECS moves to Epsom / Lovers Walk / Uckfield / wherever at 0400 ish - all doors closed, "Not in service" displayed, not a soul around... "are you going to Gatwick?" Not really, my friend! Ten times worse in the middle of the afternoon, when the crew stops used to happen!

londonbridge said:

One night I was coming home from Vic to East Croydon, train made an unannounced top at Selhurst to let some depot workers on/off. Can't remember which way round it was but a passenger either boarded or alighted and was challenged by a staff member who said he wasn't allowed to do so. Whereupon the passenger threatened to report the driver for stopping when (in the words of the passenger) they shouldn't have done!

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I'm a bit surprised that anyone took exception to someone boarding at a staff stop on a passenger service - Selhurst station is usually open at night (although it has been known to close completely - I've experienced it at least two or three times) and if you release the doors, it's just one of those things. The only real reason the staff stops aren't advertised is because the train may take the alternative route out of the Norwood Jn / Selhurst pair. If you don't advertise it, you don't have any obligation to get passengers home from the wrong station (not that many care anyway - they're just happy that they're on a train stopping near South Norwood or Selhurst Road!).

And they're certainly official stops, for the most part - and in such cases, the driver wouldn't even be asked to explain themselves.

There have, of course, been the odd empty coaching stock trains here and there which, again by custom and practice, have had all doors released. There are various obscure reasons for this to have happened, although it's a lot less common now. Passengers would not be permitted on those, and have needed to be turfed off in the past. There was once an individual who did actually like to try to board such a service and commute to Victoria - it was an ECS which used to have its doors opened at Selhurst station after arriving ECS from the depot and then picking up a lot of staff on one of the platforms. He ended up being challenged a few times, and when the ECS working was amended to stop at Clapham Jn for whatever reason, he tended to get removed there.

ArchieWoodbine said:

I recall this happening whenever GWR Paddington services have to go via Greenford (or even start from Marylebone), Bicester and Oxford to get onto the GWML due to engineering work.

They're booked as fast from London to Swindon, but make an un-advertised stop at Oxford to allow the Chiltern driver to swap onto an Up service (as GWR drivers don't sign the route).

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Not quite correct - Chiltern don’t sign the traction; and correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think they supply conductor drivers at all to any operator.

No GWR drivers sign the route, so a route conductor is provided by Freightliner Heavy Haul for the journey to Marylebone/Paddington via the Joint.

GWR Train Managers do (did) sign the route, but only Paddington-based TMs.

The stop at Oxford was to pick up the route conductor for the driver; and to change to a Paddington Train Manager who signs the joint line. Most traincrew treated it as an open stop however.

FCC and GN used to do it all the time on the late night terminators to Peterborough just outside the station.

Does anyone remember the East London Line when it was a proper tube line? Those staff swaps at the halt just before New Cross were brilliant fun for a 5 year old me.

Did one myself on a West Coast way a few years ago, worked a west bound from Brighton to Shoreham where we swapped crew with a very much delayed east bound heading towards Brighton. It used to be done often in the days of having spare crews available as a way of getting delayed services back on time

TUC said:

I'm currently on Grand Central's 1627 Kings Cross-Bradford Interchange. It has made an unscheduled stop at Newark Northgate to swop drivers with a southbound service. It made me wonder how common it is for unscheduled stops for staff swops to take place. Has anyone else experienced it?

(Incidentally, top marks to the guard who has explained to passengers at each stage what is hapoening,)

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It looks like the driver swap was with a Sunderland driver with a further long wait at Doncaster, presumably waiting for another driver who could sign the route to Bradford

JN114 said:

Not quite correct - Chiltern don’t sign the traction; and correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think they supply conductor drivers at all to any operator.

No GWR drivers sign the route, so a route conductor is provided by Freightliner Heavy Haul for the journey to Marylebone/Paddington via the Joint.

GWR Train Managers do (did) sign the route, but only Paddington-based TMs.

The stop at Oxford was to pick up the route conductor for the driver; and to change to a Paddington Train Manager who signs the joint line. Most traincrew treated it as an open stop however.

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Ah, fair enough, I forgot about the traction. That makes sense.