Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

TT-ONR-NRN · 18 Oct 2018

anamyd said:
The second new livery 175 is definitely 003, not 103. I've just watched a YouTube video confirming that. Your list should say 175107 and 175003. In case you don't know, 175001-011 are the 2-car units and 175101-116 are the 3-car units (27 total Class 175 DMUs).

Yes thanks. I’ve been told that and shall amend the list in the next update. I’m just waiting for all the corrections to come in, then I will reproduce the list.

I did know that, but thanks.

RailUK Forums

sw1ller · 19 Oct 2018

anamyd said:
The second new livery 175 is definitely 003, not 103. I've just watched a YouTube video confirming that. Your list should say 175107 and 175003. In case you don't know, 175001-011 are the 2-car units and 175101-116 are the 3-car units (27 total Class 175 DMUs).

Also, I was on 103 for a large portion of Tuesday and it’s still Arriva. I’ve yet to see 003 in the new paint,

anamyd · 19 Oct 2018

sw1ller said:
Also, I was on 103 for a large portion of Tuesday and it’s still Arriva. I’ve yet to see 003 in the new paint,

There's a YouTube video of 003 in TfW livery if you don't mind it not being in person!

THC · 20 Oct 2018

Any word on TOPS class numbers for the new stock?

THC

grumpyoldman01 · 20 Oct 2018

Does anyone know why the Flirts which aren't being used on Rhymney services are DMUs and not BMUs, please?

Kyle1 · 20 Oct 2018

Deleted, misread previous post

craigybagel · 20 Oct 2018

grumpyoldman01 said:
Does anyone know why the Flirts which aren't being used on Rhymney services are DMUs and not BMUs, please?

Presumably because there isn't a whole lot of electrification on the routes they're being planned on being used on to justify the expense and weight of all the electrical gear?

Dai Corner · 20 Oct 2018

craigybagel said:
Presumably because there isn't a whole lot of electrification on the routes they're being planned on being used on to justify the expense and weight of all the electrical gear?

Also, the electricity purchased by Network Rail for the SWML is the wrong sort. NR have a deal with EDF for nuclear, whereas TfW have chosen 100% renewable for the Valleys.

grumpyoldman01 · 20 Oct 2018

craigybagel said:
Presumably because there isn't a whole lot of electrification on the routes they're being planned on being used on to justify the expense and weight of all the electrical gear?

Ok; thanks.

I guess I'd been influenced by the images published which basically show a variation of the class 755s, and having seen them described as DEMUs; therefore, I'd assumed they were (in simple terms) EMUs with 3-phase drives and their own mobile power stations - like Greater Anglia's Bi-mode Flirts - and I wondered why the extra bits needed for operation under the wires - say if working Cardiff - Ebbw Vale - weren't being added

samuelmorris · 20 Oct 2018

As far as I know they will still be DEMUs even without the Bimode kit.

pt_mad · 20 Oct 2018

Do we know for sure which loco class are likely to be hauling the sets made up from the 12 MK4 coaches TfW are taking on?

Is it likely to be class 67s and mk3 DVTs?

When are the MK4 s planned to enter service with TfW?

craigybagel · 20 Oct 2018

pt_mad said:
Do we know for sure which loco class are likely to be hauling the sets made up from the 12 MK4 coaches TfW are taking on?

Is it likely to be class 67s and mk3 DVTs?

When are the MK4 s planned to enter service with TfW?

Class 67s will be staying on, that much is certain. According to another poster, I can't remember who, MKIII DVTs aren't compatible with MKIVs so they'll need to use MKIV DVTs if that is the case (and modify them to work with 67s).

2019 is the planned date for introduction.

Envoy · 21 Oct 2018

Dai Corner said:
Also, the electricity purchased by Network Rail for the SWML is the wrong sort. NR have a deal with EDF for nuclear, whereas TfW have chosen 100% renewable for the Valleys.

Is this really true? I thought all electricity went into the National Grid and the various methods of generation were selected as and when available. If TfW have selected 100% renewable, how will they get power at night (when solar is not available) and if the wind is not blowing? Surely, it cannot all be transported from hydro schemes further north to the valleys in the south and be kept isolated from ‘contamination’ by nuclear power in the system? Surely in saying 100% renewable is PR spin and could never happen in reality?

krus_aragon · 21 Oct 2018

Envoy said:
Is this really true? I thought all electricity went into the National Grid and the various methods of generation were selected as and when available. If TfW have selected 100% renewable, how will they get power at night (when solar is not available) and if the wind is not blowing? Surely, it cannot all be transported from hydro schemes further north to the valleys in the south and be kept isolated from ‘contamination’ by nuclear power in the system? Surely in saying 100% renewable is PR spin and could never happen in reality?

It's a paper exercise. If you use 250MWh, you pay the energy supplier, and they earmark 250MWh of the renewable energy they generated over that period as having been "sold" to you. (Naturally the system assumes they don't "sell" the same green energy to more than one customer.) Non-renewables may still be needed to meet demand at certain times of the day.

Dai Corner · 21 Oct 2018

krus_aragon said:
It's a paper exercise. If you use 250MWh, you pay the energy supplier, and they earmark 250MWh of the renewable energy they generated over that period as having been "sold" to you. (Naturally the system assumes they don't "sell" the same green energy to more than one customer.) Non-renewables may still be needed to meet demand at certain times of the day.

Yes. I was being humurous/satirical. In reality, i believe the electricity for the Valleys and the main line will come though the same feeder station from the National Grid. In so far as it's possible to identify a unit of electricity consumed with one generated a fair chunk will probably come from coal-burning Aberthaw power station in the Vale of Glamorgan, especially when it's dark or the wind isn't blowing within the right speed range.

The_Engineer · 21 Oct 2018

Dai Corner said:
Yes. I was being humurous/satirical. In reality, i believe the electricity for the Valleys and the main line will come though the same feeder station from the National Grid. In so far as it's possible to identify a unit of electricity consumed with one generated a fair chunk will probably come from coal-burning Aberthaw power station in the Vale of Glamorgan, especially when it's dark or the wind isn't blowing within the right speed range.

Indeed! This kind of power allocation by a customer does allow that generation source to be allocated more input power to the grid. In practice, as you say unless you obtain a direct connection from power generator to customer no one knows where the power comes from at a customers extraction point.

The best analogy I often use to people is it's like a big water reservoir (the grid) being fed by water from multiple sources (the generators). Water can be drawn from the same reservoir to many customers through multiple output pipes. No one can tell where the water they are using comes from either!!

Envoy · 21 Oct 2018

So, the public who choose ‘renewables’ for their home consumption are really being conned!

Dai Corner · 21 Oct 2018

Envoy said:
So, the public who choose ‘renewables’ for their home consumption are really being conned!

If they believe their electricity all comes from windmills or solar panels or that their choice of tariff influences what sort of generation is built, then yes.

We're way off topic for this thread now though.

Philip · 21 Oct 2018

Have the auto announcements been turned off on the 175s? Currently on one which doesn't have either internal displays or announcements.

craigybagel · 21 Oct 2018

Philip said:
Have the auto announcements been turned off on the 175s? Currently on one which doesn't have either internal displays or announcements.

If it's on a route affected by engineering work the chances are it won't work. The system can only cope with normal timetabled calling patterns. Most of the Manchester - Shrewsbury shuttles this weekend don't have working displays as there is no code for a Manchester - Shrewsbury service with that particular calling pattern. The same will apply to those units the other side of the blockade in South and West Wales, and for the last few months with the North Wales - Manchester services turning around at Warrington.

Cambrian359 · 21 Oct 2018

There’s one issue with South Wales having its own route specific fleets in the future, when they are short on units in South Wales it will mean trains from north and mid wales will be sent down to cover their shortage as their drivers will be trained on them units but when north and mid Wales are short on units there will be no help as South Wales/valley trains won’t be able to be sent up north to cover as they won’t be trained on South Wales fleets(presumably)

uxm · 21 Oct 2018

grumpyoldman01 said:
Ok; thanks.

I guess I'd been influenced by the images published which basically show a variation of the class 755s, and having seen them described as DEMUs; therefore, I'd assumed they were (in simple terms) EMUs with 3-phase drives and their own mobile power stations - like Greater Anglia's Bi-mode Flirts - and I wondered why the extra bits needed for operation under the wires - say if working Cardiff - Ebbw Vale - weren't being added

I saw it mentioned somewhere that the DEMUS can be converted to bi mode operation easily.

trainophile · 23 Oct 2018

On a 2-coach 150 Holyhead to Maesteg. They are scraping the barrel aren’t they?

Cardiff123 · 23 Oct 2018

trainophile said:
On a 2-coach 150 Holyhead to Maesteg. They are scraping the barrel aren’t they?

Things will continue to get worse unless / until the 769s arrive, which is next May at the earliest.

anthony263 · 23 Oct 2018

Unless any of northern pacers get freed up beforehand

trainophile · 23 Oct 2018

anthony263 said:
Unless any of northern pacers get freed up beforehand

Don’t even joke about it! o_O

uxm · 23 Oct 2018

Here are the details of the future rolling stock including the routes:

Class 170

Heart of Wales line (from 2022)
Regional services between South and West Wales
South Wales metro lines - Ebbw Vale/Maesteg (until 2022)
Crewe-Shrewsbury local services (from 2022)

Civity

Regional services between North, South and West Wales and England (from 2022)
Conwy Valley line (from 2022)
Cambrian line (from 2022)

MK4

North to south inter-city service: Holyhead-Cardiff Central

Class 230

Conwy Valley line (until 2021)
Chester-Crewe (until 2021)
Borderlands line

anamyd · 23 Oct 2018

uxm said:
Here are the details of the future rolling stock including the routes:

Class 170

Heart of Wales line (from 2022)
Regional services between South and West Wales
South Wales metro lines - Ebbw Vale/Maesteg (until 2022)
Crewe-Shrewsbury local services (from 2022)

Civity

Regional services between North, South and West Wales and England (from 2022)
Conwy Valley line (from 2022)
Cambrian line (from 2022)

MK4

North to south inter-city service: Holyhead-Cardiff Central

Class 230

Conwy Valley line (until 2021)
Chester-Crewe (until 2021)
Borderlands line

Thanks for that

Cardiff123 · 23 Oct 2018

uxm said:
Here are the details of the future rolling stock including the routes:

Class 170

Heart of Wales line (from 2022)
Regional services between South and West Wales
South Wales metro lines - Ebbw Vale/Maesteg (until 2022)
Crewe-Shrewsbury local services (from 2022)

Civity

Regional services between North, South and West Wales and England (from 2022)
Conwy Valley line (from 2022)
Cambrian line (from 2022)

MK4

North to south inter-city service: Holyhead-Cardiff Central

Class 230

Conwy Valley line (until 2021)
Chester-Crewe (until 2021)
Borderlands line

That's all fantastic but due to Welsh Govt's lack of planning there's a rolling stock crisis right now. 170s aren't arriving until December 2019, 230s possibly next May along with 769s possibly next May. If the 769s are delayed beyond May, TfW will need to get the buses ready.

PHILIPE · 23 Oct 2018

trainophile said:
On a 2-coach 150 Holyhead to Maesteg. They are scraping the barrel aren’t they?

Not rare at the moment as they are having to use what is available. Should normally be 175/1 but temporary diagrams through the shortage. Should attach 153 at Cardiff.

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