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Grayling: It's not my fault the May recast went wrong, I'm no rail expert

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Mikey C

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Brexit is dominating political life at the moment, so that everything else is being overshadowed. In any other time the Thameslink and Northern fiascos would be massive political issues, with newspaper and opposition pressure, and a beleaguered Grayling on the TV trying to defend himself...
 
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Joe Paxton

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Brexit is dominating political life at the moment, so that everything else is being overshadowed. In any other time the Thameslink and Northern fiascos would be massive political issues, with newspaper and opposition pressure, and a beleaguered Grayling on the TV trying to defend himself...

Hmm, only up to a point. A lot of people in this country either never or rarely travel by train.

Agreed that Brexit is overshadowing everything at the moment, I expect it will for quite some time to come (i.e. many years). But this is what the country voted for.
 

HH

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Brexit is overshadowing everything at the moment, I expect it will for quite some time to come (i.e. many years). But this is what the country voted for.
Not really. It's been highly divisive and nobody knows where it will lead; I doubt whether anyone voted for that.

Most people who voted leave seem to be thinking like those who want to nationalise the railways; they want to return to some supposed golden age in the past. However, "the past is another country"; there's no going back. My hope at the moment is that Corbyn will now be wagged by the Momentum tail that brought him to power, have to promise a cancellation of Brexit and then whatever the result of the next election, at least we lose one harebrained scheme. ;)
 

Stevec101

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He does have a point though, I wouldn't expect (nor particularly want) the Government minister to be individually involved in every decision made by the department - their job is to make the major decisions (HS2, Heathrow Expansion, electrification or lack thereof) across their entire remit but otherwise to appoint the right people to the right job and to set out strategy and vision for the department. Should the transport secretary be making decisions about the Thameslink Programme on a large scale, yes. Should they be go/no-going timetables, definitely not.

You wouldn't expect the CEO of most companies to be performing important, technical tasks such as setting timetables, but you would expect them to be outlining what they want from a project - why should the DfT be any different?

The CEO of any big company is ultimately responsible for any fook up. That's why letting some office junior decide on which tea bags to pick up doesn't get scrutinised by the CEO. It would be deemed a waste of time for something so trivial.
However negotiating a new contract with the energy supplier would be the responsibly of someone much higher at director level as it could seriously damage the buisness financially. But again CEO probably would trust senior management.
Wholesale changes to the buisness like a complete overall of the entire network timetables does and should involve the very top. If he didn't look at it and listen he should be sacked. Any private CEO would have been out on his/her ear. What amazes me is I know companies were employing people in January ready to deal with the backlash that they could see the new timetable was going to bring? Ffs if they could all see it what the fook were the DFT doing? Sorry but I've completely lost faith in all branches of government and all politicians on all sides
 

superkev

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[QUOTE="Stevec101, post: 3653822] Any private CEO would have been out on his/her ear. What amazes me is I know companies were employing people in January ready to deal with the backlash that they could see the new timetable was going to bring? Ffs if they could all see it what the fook were the DFT doing? Sorry but I've completely lost faith in all branches of government and all politicians on all sides[/QUOTE]
Nice to see someone Sharing my thoughts on clueless politicians on all sides. People like Grayling are good at waffling and ducking and diving but at administration totally clueless. Perhaps like football managers and other skilled trades we should import some :)
With no assets left to sell and little skill left I fear for us after Brexit.
K
 

Stevec101

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[QUOTE="Stevec101, post: 3653822] Any private CEO would have been out on his/her ear. What amazes me is I know companies were employing people in January ready to deal with the backlash that they could see the new timetable was going to bring? Ffs if they could all see it what the fook were the DFT doing? Sorry but I've completely lost faith in all branches of government and all politicians on all sides
Nice to see someone Sharing my thoughts on clueless politicians on all sides. People like Grayling are good at waffling and ducking and diving but at administration totally clueless. Perhaps like football managers and other skilled trades we should import some :)
With no assets left to sell and little skill left I fear for us after Brexit.
K[/QUOTE]

Absolutely I think we've been run by idiots for decades. Non of them give me any confidence
 

pemma

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According to the unfortunate person employed as Esther McVey's PA it's impossible to get answers from Grayling or his department on the current Northern situation, so even Tories on the same side as Grayling are getting ignored by him and his department.
 

DarloRich

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According to the unfortunate person employed as Esther McVey's PA it's impossible to get answers from Grayling or his department on the current Northern situation, so even Tories on the same side as Grayling are getting ignored by him and his department.

I suspect that is more to do with internal Tory factions rather than anything to do with helping passengers!
 

pemma

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I suspect that is more to do with internal Tory factions rather than anything to do with helping passengers!

Possibly right. Note how Labour Weaver Vale MP has spoken to the BBC but Conservatives McVey and Brady (who constituents are equally affected) have not.

BBC News said:
Weaver Vale Labour MP Mike Amesbury said the change had been made "without any explanation or consultation".

"The lack of a frequent, reasonably fast, and reliable train service is causing economic difficulties in mid Cheshire", he added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-45941424
 

Class465fan

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Wait a minute, if the idiot is no rail expert then why is he still a rail minister? Shouldn't he be voted out and replaced immediately by someone that has rail knowledge??
 

pemma

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Wait a minute, if the idiot is no rail expert then why is he still a rail minister? Shouldn't he be voted out and replaced immediately by someone that has rail knowledge??

He's transport minister so really he should have an overview of all transport types with the rail specialty delegated to the rail minister.
 

Skymonster

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To paraphrase Sir Humphrey Appleby: "Obviously he's not a trained [transport expert] or he wouldn't have been put in charge of [transport]"

Wait a minute, if the idiot is no rail expert then why is he still a rail minister? Shouldn't he be voted out and replaced immediately by someone that has rail knowledge??
Ministers aren't voted in or out - they are chosen by the party that gets a majority in parliament.
 

hooverboy

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Not really. It's been highly divisive and nobody knows where it will lead; I doubt whether anyone voted for that.

Most people who voted leave seem to be thinking like those who want to nationalise the railways; they want to return to some supposed golden age in the past. However, "the past is another country"; there's no going back. My hope at the moment is that Corbyn will now be wagged by the Momentum tail that brought him to power, have to promise a cancellation of Brexit and then whatever the result of the next election, at least we lose one harebrained scheme. ;)
it's not really that divisive at all.

you basically fall into one of two camps.
1)government should be as small as possible,and let business/individuals etc adapt to the needs of a particular market,be it transport,municipal services etc
2) government shall direct business/individuals to certain methods of working for the wellbeing of the collective/society at large.

lets take climate change as an example.which do you think is the best way to deal with fossil fuels?
1) let engineers innovate and tout some ideas on the market for new efficient engines(perhaps 50% of the projects will fail, but 10% will have legs and be adopted by corporates as it significantly reduces their operating costs)

2) legislate that by date x, you will no longer be permitted to operate machines with a co2/kg/mile output of xxx.

3)ration/tariff fuel to a certain quota per business/individual until targets are met.

I fall very much into camp 1 here, and I would much prefer to see incentives and kickstarter funds to meet targets rather than people trying to micromanage every aspect of my life, from what I can drive,to where I can drive to,to what I eat/drink etc etc.
 

HH

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Well, hooverboy, I don't directly see what your fiscal liberality (or not) has to do with Brexit, whatever Bojo and his mates tried to say with that bus.

Personally I like whichever ones work. In your example probably a mix of all 3. When anyone imagines that there is only one solution and they KNOW what it is, I start looking at the alternatives.
 

Elecman

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To paraphrase Sir Humphrey Appleby: "Obviously he's not a trained [transport expert] or he wouldn't have been put in charge of [transport]"


Ministers aren't voted in or out - they are chosen by the party that gets a majority in parliament.

Actually appointed and removed by The encumbrant Prime Minister which is why Grayling is safe with the lame duck presently ensconced in No.10
 

bramling

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Actually appointed and removed by The encumbrant Prime Minister which is why Grayling is safe with the lame duck presently ensconced in No.10

She’s struggling to fill key positions as it is. Another high-profile resignation could lead to Grayling getting moved though, simply to fill an empty chair at the table.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Chris Grayling to decide on GTR action soon:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45946734

I missed the Select Committee session on TV today, but apparently this was the DfT position.
Given Grayling previously squarely blamed Network Rail (System Operator) for the overall timetable meltdown, I'm not sure he will fire GTR.
They'll get a large fine probably, for customer service shortcomings.
Similarly for Northern - except Network Rail will get a different sort of blame there for infrastructure delays.
I'd be surprised if Network Rail escapes without some sort of major impact.

The government will decide "within weeks" whether to strip Govia Thameslink Railway of its franchise, the Transport Secretary has said.
Chris Grayling has been answering MP's questions about a timetable overhaul that caused chaos this summer.
He said: "We are finalising the action... It could involve penalising [or] taking the franchise away."
But he cautioned that it would have to be on a "legally sound basis" and in passengers' best interests
 
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hwl

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Chris Grayling to decide on GTR action soon:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45946734

I missed the Select Committee session on TV today, but apparently this was the DfT position.
Given Grayling previously squarely blamed Network Rail (System Operator) for the overall timetable meltdown, I'm not sure he will fire GTR.
They'll get a large fine probably, for customer service shortcomings. Similarly for Northern - except Network Rail will get a different sort of blame there for infrastructure delays.
I'd be surprised if Network Rail escapes without some sort of major impact.
The Glaister report let NR of the hook for most of the GTR related stuff so much harder for Grayling to blame NR now and his has stopped trying to blame NR in the last month... NR will point out that timetabling team under staffing was a result of ORR enforced efficiency savings.
DfT will have tough time because Govia could go to court and show DfT and previous franchsiee short comings were part of the issues.
 

Andyjs247

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The Transport Select Committee has also been fairly scathing about DfT, particularly the DfT and ORR response to the select committee's 4th Report into Rail Infrastructure Investment. See https://www.parliament.uk/business/...2017/transport-committee-government-response/

The Transport Select Committee's 4th Report - Rail infrastructure investment can be found here.

On 19 September the Chair of the Transport Committee, Lilian Greenwood, said:

Lilian Greenwood said:
These responses are disappointing in several respects, particularly the Department for Transport's apparent unwillingness to engage with some of our key conclusions and recommendations.

It has nothing to say on the long-term cost-effectiveness and wider sustainability benefits of railway electrification. It provides very little detail on how it plans to implement emerging traction technologies such as battery and hydrogen power. Perhaps most concerning are the responses to our recommendations on changes to transport scheme appraisal methods, which give no sense that the Government intends to address biases against regions that have not received their fair share of investment for decades.

We have published the responses today, without substantive comment—people can draw their own conclusions on their adequacy... "
 

Mikey C

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Wait a minute, if the idiot is no rail expert then why is he still a rail minister? Shouldn't he be voted out and replaced immediately by someone that has rail knowledge??

Most ministers don't have detail knowledge of their area, certainly before taking over. Otherwise there would be a very small "gene pool" for each job.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...

Xenophon PCDGS

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The problem being with the expressed view on a rail-orientated internet forum is the non-recognition that the role of Transport Minister is only seen as one of the lesser attractive ministries to head for a politician with hoped-for aspirations of a "top flight" ministerial role, which that of Transport most certainly is not.
 

HH

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Yes, we're stuck with Grayling, so he doesn't "muck up" something really important.
 

squizzler

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I'm reminded of Captain Edmund Blackadder's critique of Private Sodoff Baldrick's poetry reading:

"Well it started badly, tailed off a bit towards the middle, and the less said about the end the better. But apart from that..."
On the subject of classic television, here he is formulating the specifications for rolling stock with the DfT consultants:
 
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