LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Porterbrook originally said December 2017.So only ~1 year late. That is good going for UK railways these days.
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
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On the presumption they'll probably be used on some full AC routes as we know Northern can & will use their units anywhere, it'll be Interesting to see how they cope on some already electrified sections too. The Chat Moss itself could provide some problems around St Helens with slipping and the gradient. (Incidentally, are these going to be based at Allerton?)
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dont think it will be a problem at all an extra 20 tonnes is off little consiquences
think off a thumper 600hp 56 tonne motor coach another 2 coaches making a total off around 124 and the 2 traction motors are at the light end off the motor coach to spread the weight
so nearing twice the power twice the driving axles and another 40 tonnes will be fine
The_Engineer
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… and into service with Northern in May 2018 I think. After delivery, I expect there will be the usual fault-free on-track mileage accumulation, driver and guard training (hopefully a quick conversion course and drive!!), practical depot training with the unit...….. Allerton sounds likely for their home depot as they do the class 319.
Yes the gradient starts on the platform (at both ends and with lots of derogations, the platforms are bowl shaped) as can be seen in this photo (not mine):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/47384914@N04/36748131490/
Worth having a look a the angle on the bottom of the wall panels behind the far platform
anamyd
On Moderation
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Went on my first 319 (and first Northern train) today. It was a fully refurbed one (368) and gave me a bit of a feeling for what a 769 would be like. As in a lot nicer to travel in than the totally unrefurbished manky and broken interiored 156 (460) I had on my return journey...
My hope is the 769s and the potential bi-mode 321 project can replace many of the manky 150s and 156s as a short term fix in the coming years. Obviously the 769 project needs to go well but hopefully it will once in service. Most of the 150s and 156s now operate as double units of 4 carriages so it makes sense to have a purpose built 4 carriage units which are easier to modernise than grotty diesel units.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Agree on the 150s (especially if they can switch to a less cheap&nasty seat covering) but for many services, going from a 156 to a mk3-based unit will be a backwards step, even if it is 4-cars and (partially) electric.
reddragon
Established Member
The 150s are the same mk3 bodyshell as a 319, the only difference is the propulsion and internal layout / condition.
Is a 156 a MKIII derivative?
reddragon
Established Member
The 156 was built by Metro-Cammell to the Mk3 IC coach layout but not design
Cardiff123
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Take a trip south and you will see that 150s don't have to be manky and grotty. ATW did a good job of refurbishing the interior of their 150/2s with 2+2 Chapman seating, new seat fillings and coverings, more tables and new paneling and floor coverings.
The same can be said for the refurbed and PRM modified GWR 150/2s.
swissrailpassion
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The northern trains are a disgrace. Compare the 158s with those at EMT or SWR or even Wales. The SWR and EMT ones seem almost like new trains inside. Once a unit is allocated to Northern it's doomed to perfunctory cleaning dirt and decline. Only the 158s are just about acceptable in terms of cleanliness and quality, the rest are often terrible. Some of the recent refurbishments have been done so badly and they still have 30 years of dirt ingrained on the window frames.
The refurbishments were supposed to be 'transformational' - few believed it would happen and I'm afraid to say they were right.
The refurbishments were supposed to be 'transformational' - few believed it would happen and I'm afraid to say they were right.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
TBH I think there is something seriously rotten in the management culture of Northern, as I've said before, and sadly TUPE means it is near impossible to get rid of it. Northern pretty much needs a total clear-out of upper management and a start from scratch.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Something Arriva failed at by keeping the same MD from Serco Abellio. I thought the German's were supposed to be efficient...
They kept the same one originally but Abellio wanted him at Scotrail so there was a change in the end. They also recently quietly moved Sharon Keith (regional director for the west part including Liverpool, Blackpool, Preston and Cumbria) to another role in Arriva outside of Northern.
Worth remembering despite the RMT claims that Arriva's head office is in Sunderland and it's the parent company of Arriva who are German owned.
superkev
Established Member
If they sacked Arriva whoever replaced them would be stuck with the same team.
K
EE Andy b1
Established Member
This is quite often the problem with many TOCs and franchise changes, you end up with the same top management team, good (no problem) or bad (more of the same)!!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm sure this isn't the intended effect of TUPE, either.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Nope don't think that's the intention whatsoever but until the new franchise operator has a re-shuffle you end up carrying on with the same mindset as before.
What's all this got to do with the programme for class 369s though?
EE Andy b1
Established Member
superkev
Established Member
Bit unfair to single out top management as I'm sure there some bad apples at all levels. Difference is of course that the higher up the management chain decisions have the most impact.
K
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themiller
Member
I don't think that TUPE applies above a certain level / grade. I think that it only covers up to a very junior management grade. Someone else may have more knowledge on this topic as mine is from some years ago.
swt_passenger
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TUPE applies to every paid or salaried employee. It has no cutoff at junior management.
Killingworth
Established Member
But a clean TUPE transfer is not necessarily offered to all existing staff. That may have been legally the case with Northern, however I've seen where senior managers have been offered big compensation packages, subject to a strict confidentiality agreement, to leave. The alternative may have been a TUPE transfer to an inferior position with poor prospects. Those left behind were envious, but not knowing how much they got they weren't as envious as they might have been!
swt_passenger
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But that still isn’t a cutoff at a certain grade.
Killingworth
Established Member
Which I didn't say. Employers are able to effectively exclude anyone by making an offer they can't refuse. In my specific case roughly half took redundancy on standard terms, half got TUPE'd and a small number got an enhanced offer. Clearing old management is a normal consideration.
Haven't come across TUPE before. Could somebody explain please?