SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

infobleep · 21 Oct 2018

It's interesting to see that the leaf fall timetables have been suspended during the strike period this week. At least on the Cobham line.

However they are keeping to the May timetables, where possible. Before May the 7:03 Guildford to Waterloo departed at 7:06. Now there is no train in the way, it can depart at 7:03, so is timetabled to do so.

During the leaf fall timetable this train is still departing at 7:03, whereas the 7:35 is departing at 7:32.

With the strike timetable, perhaps it's felt there is enough time for the 7:35 train at Waterloo that they don't need to take into account leaves falling. But if that's the case, would departing the 7:03 at 7:06, as it was before the May timetable, make any difference?

Personally I would just stick to the leaf fall timetable because anything that helps the drivers with their timings during this season has to be good.

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Goldfish62 · 22 Oct 2018

infobleep said:
It's interesting to see that the leaf fall timetables have been suspended during the strike period this week. At least on the Cobham line.

However they are keeping to the May timetables, where possible. Before May the 7:03 Guildford to Waterloo departed at 7:06. Now there is no train in the way, it can depart at 7:03, so is timetabled to do so.

During the leaf fall timetable this train is still departing at 7:03, whereas the 7:35 is departing at 7:32.

With the strike timetable, perhaps it's felt there is enough time for the 7:35 train at Waterloo that they don't need to take into account leaves falling. But if that's the case, would departing the 7:03 at 7:06, as it was before the May timetable, make any difference?

Personally I would just stick to the leaf fall timetable because anything that helps the drivers with their timings during this season has to be good.

Same on the Reading line. Extra 3 min in bed for me.

infobleep · 22 Oct 2018

I've just noticed that the timetables from Tuesday to Friday are up but not Saturday.

How do they know the numbers of staff they will have on Friday, which is 5 days away. If they do know the staff numbers, how come for previous stikes on Fridays have not been uploaded on a Monday? What stopped them knowing the numbers then?

Saturday isn't up yet. If I remember correctly, they will be up on Thursday and if they get uploaded before then, I'll be interested in knowing how it was made possible this time.

I see Monday to Friday the only train to serve Berrylands, the station we are told will not be served, is the 23:41 from Surbtion. Tickets are valid on the K2 at least. Berrylands isn't however served in the south direction at all.

3141 · 22 Oct 2018

Yes, they definitely have questions to answer, and faced with the difficulties of organising and staffing a train service on a series of strike days they need to explain why they've been able to give their passengers a few extra days' notice!

swt_passenger · 22 Oct 2018

3141 said:
Yes, they definitely have questions to answer, and faced with the difficulties of organising and staffing a train service on a series of strike days they need to explain why they've been able to give their passengers a few extra days' notice!

Because they can easily repeat Tuesday four times?

joncombe · 22 Oct 2018

infobleep said:
I've just noticed that the timetables from Tuesday to Friday are up but not Saturday.

Saturday ones appeared for at least some of the routes earlier today.

Kite159 · 22 Oct 2018

So here comes the start of even more pointless strikes, losing the guards money and another knock for any remaining customer goodwill.

Will the rail industry recover from folk shifting away to using their own private transport (or in some areas, buses) and ditching the unreliable trains?

No doubt there will be the usual photocall in the morning with a local Labour MP before the picket line disappears and the strikers go home to enjoy a day off.

3141 · 22 Oct 2018

swt_passenger said:
Because they can easily repeat Tuesday four times?

But they've got to be sure guards are in place every day to staff the services, and I'd be surprised if it can be the same guards on the same service every time. But I do think they've done a great job, and I hope it will work out as well on Friday as it does on Tuesday, as I have to go to London that day.

Kite159 · 22 Oct 2018

3141 said:
But they've got to be sure guards are in place every day to staff the services, and I'd be surprised if it can be the same guards on the same service every time. But I do think they've done a great job, and I hope it will work out as well on Friday as it does on Tuesday, as I have to go to London that day.

One good thing about the strike timetable is that I don't have to drive to Andover for what would be the 14:38 to London as that stops at all the stations

Drogba11CFC · 22 Oct 2018

Getting back from AFC Totton on Tuesday and Stamford Bridge on Thursday is going to be a right PITA.

footprints · 23 Oct 2018

This strike going ahead is the final nail in the RMT's coffin. Escalating the dispute in this way but failing to bring SWR back to the negotiating table is a disaster for the RMT yet entirely predictable.

Does anyone honestly believe the next five days will achieve anything other than inconvenience passengers and cost staff a hefty chunk of their monthly salary?

SWR seem to have given up the pointless charade of meetings with a union who only want to dictate rather than negotiate and who have haemorrhaged public support, lost any remaining good will and, just like on Southern, completely failed their members with their militancy and inability to compromise.

CN75 · 23 Oct 2018

footprints said:
This strike going ahead is the final nail in the RMT's coffin. Escalating the dispute in this way but failing to bring SWR back to the negotiating table is a disaster for the RMT yet entirely predictable.

Does anyone honestly believe the next five days will achieve anything other than inconvenience passengers and cost staff a hefty chunk of their monthly salary?

SWR seem to have given up the pointless charade of meetings with a union who only want to dictate rather than negotiate and who have haemorrhaged public support, lost any remaining good will and, just like on Southern, completely failed their members with their militancy and inability to compromise.

Moreover, as well as contracts which require them to operate DOO trains, ASLEF drivers will have seen on Southern that the DfT will simply face down a driver’s strike this time.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

swt_passenger said:
Because they can easily repeat Tuesday four times?

But surely if they can plan for Tuesday, why can't why plan for Friday, when a strike is only on a Friday, at the same time they plan for Tuesday?

If they are planning just as early, why can't it be released earlier than it is. It's a minor point but I was wondering why.

Today the 8:07 Guildford to Waterloo made an additional stop at New Malden. No others trains appear to have been cancelled from the strike timetable. I wonder if this stop will be added in every day at short notice.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

Kite159 said:
So here comes the start of even more pointless strikes, losing the guards money and another knock for any remaining customer goodwill.

Will the rail industry recover from folk shifting away to using their own private transport (or in some areas, buses) and ditching the unreliable trains?

No doubt there will be the usual photocall in the morning with a local Labour MP before the picket line disappears and the strikers go home to enjoy a day off.

I'm not ditching the trains and as for them being unreliable, they don't need the guards for the to be that.

I value their safety and although they may lose the argument, I do hope the strike achieves continued safety for the passengers.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

Kite159 said:
One good thing about the strike timetable is that I don't have to drive to Andover for what would be the 14:38 to London as that stops at all the stations

I had a unique journey opportunity today, as I nickname services that rarely run. I got the 8:28 to Waterloo via Epsom.

Due to a late running Southern service at Epsom I even saved 3 minutes on my journey time!

Still not as fast as a direct Southern train but when there no longer is a direct train between 8 and 9, it's a mote point.

Robertj21a · 23 Oct 2018

I accept that I may be getting confused with the various RMT disputes but a statement in The Times today from SWR reads:-

"We have guaranteed a guard to be rostered on every single service and our growth plans mean more guards, not fewer. It is time for the union to stop spreading myths and causing misery to our customers and colleagues, and commit to resolving this dispute".

Subject to safeguards regarding any 'exceptional circumstances' I can't see the RMT ever getting a better deal.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

Robertj21a said:
I accept that I may be getting confused with the various RMT disputes but a statement in The Times today from SWR reads:-

"We have guaranteed a guard to be rostered on every single service and our growth plans mean more guards, not fewer. It is time for the union to stop spreading myths and causing misery to our customers and colleagues, and commit to resolving this dispute".

Subject to safeguards regarding any 'exceptional circumstances' I can't see the RMT ever getting a better deal.

Did the quote mention that in times of disruption they would run trains without guards?

I can see why the union might be fearful, given some of the previously South Western Railway press releases or at least one. That was the one where they tried to reassure passengers nothing was changing on the 450 classes and then further down explained what was changing, perhaps hoping passengers might not read that far.

I know the RMT leadership are not great. I wouldn't want them to lead any union I was in, based on their press releases.

On a wider note TfL said London Overgroud would retain guards. It didn't. I don't know if Govia said Gatwick Express would retain guards but they got rid of them.

I know they brought in OBSs but that was some years later.

CN75 · 23 Oct 2018

infobleep said:
On a wider note TfL said London Overgroud would retain guards. It didn't. I don't know if Govia said Gatwick Express would retain guards but they got rid of them.

I know they brought in OBSs but that was some years later.

The original LO contract from 2007 allowed TfL the discretion to tell it’s concessionaire LOROL to implement DOO on the North London routes whenever it wished by giving six months notice. TfL did not do so until after the London Olympics, but it didn’t say it never would exercise the clause.

Gatwick Express became DOO when the Junipers arrived and replaced the slam door trains when it was it’s own franchise run by National Express, well before Govia was anything to do with it.

HowardGWR · 23 Oct 2018

I would be interested just how cosy some of these replacement buses are. At our end, we have a 'semi fast', stopping between Yeovil Jcn and Honiton then non-stop to Exeter, and a stopper from Honiton to Exeter. When I write "a", I cannot imagine, even during half term holidays, that one such bus would be anywhere near adequate for through pax changing onto them at Yeovil, especially as there is only half the frequency (2 hourly). I wondered if anyone has observed what's happening on the ground.

Carlisle · 23 Oct 2018

infobleep said:
On a wider note TfL said London Overgroud would retain guards. It didn't. .

Was that an an open ended commitment? or mainly because on introduction of the 378s GSMR didn’t cover the entire route alongside bigger priorities existing with London 2012,and all that

footprints · 23 Oct 2018

Robertj21a said:
I accept that I may be getting confused with the various RMT disputes but a statement in The Times today from SWR reads:-

"We have guaranteed a guard to be rostered on every single service and our growth plans mean more guards, not fewer. It is time for the union to stop spreading myths and causing misery to our customers and colleagues, and commit to resolving this dispute".

Subject to safeguards regarding any 'exceptional circumstances' I can't see the RMT ever getting a better deal.

Agreed. The RMT leadership should be negotiating on what 'exceptional circumstances' might be and a deal similar to that agreed between Southern and Aslef could then be finalised.

The RMT will lose this dispute by their intransigent refusal to consider any circumstances in which a train might be able to run without a guard.

The extra media coverage the five-day strike is attracting is only really serving to highlight the disparity between the RMT's rants and scaremongering about guardless trains and the reality of the commitments that SWR are giving.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

CN75 said:
The original LO contract from 2007 allowed TfL the discretion to tell it’s concessionaire LOROL to implement DOO on the North London routes whenever it wished by giving six months notice. TfL did not do so until after the London Olympics, but it didn’t say it never would exercise the clause.

Gatwick Express became DOO when the Junipers arrived and replaced the slam door trains when it was it’s own franchise run by National Express, well before Govia was anything to do with it.

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

Below is the South Western Railway statement. Why no mention of running trains during disruption without a guard. I thought they wanted to do that. Do they want to do that without many passengers kmowong? It's this kind of statement that leads me to distrust SWR, whether they are actually intending to be shifty or not.

Our Statement
The RMT has again decided to needlessly disrupt our customers and colleagues with more strikes over the next two months.

The union has cynically chosen dates with the aim of targeting hard-working commuters, families enjoying the half-term holiday and sports fans to cause as much misery as possible. We will be doing everything we can to minimise this disruption.

Our plans mean more guards, not fewer and we have guaranteed a guard with safety critical competencies to be rostered on all of our services.

Should the RMT proceed with these damaging strikes, we will do everything possible to provide as many services as we can.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action

I was amazed this evening at the number of people alighting at Hersham from the late running 18:21 arrival from Waterloo. Especially given off peak it usually only has 2 services an hour but places like West Byfleet, Weybridge and Walton-on-Thames get 4. Maybe it's only a popular station during the peak commute. Either way I was surprised.

Also it seems that today every train heading north from Guildford via Cobham was stoppig additionally at New Malden. There was a note saying the service would be delayed due to making extra stops

In the south bound direction it's the Woking stoppers from Waterloo that are stoppig additoadditi at New Malden. There is no note to say it will lead to dealys.

Obviously these trains are running to a timing that doesn't usually include New Malden, save for the 7:03 and 7:35 services which are timetables to stop at New Malden.

This got me wondering, if they wish to add in the New Malden stop the day before or even earlier, are they obliged to produce a timetable that takes into account the timings of the additional stop? If not what would be the reason of only adding it in on the day? I wouldn't be surprised to see it tontomor, tomorrow.

I'm fascinated by these minor timetable changes.

infobleep · 23 Oct 2018

I tweeted South Western Railway but didn't get a response so I'll ask here, anyone know why the 18:44 Waterloo to Haslemere service isn't stopping at Clapham Junction. I assume it has 12 coaches.

Usually the 18:45 stops at West Byfleet but even that station is skipped on the 18:44.

Although I didn't ask about the 18:39, that too is skipping Clapham Junction when usually it doesn't. Itvs not timetabled to leave Woking any earlier.

Now the 18:39 has less carriages than the 18:20 to Exeter, which is still stopping at Clapham Junction, although I don't know if it translates to less seats. However I can't believe the 18:20 has more capacity than the 18:44. When it stopped at Woking, there was space on it.

However given that was the case, you might expect space in the 18:44 from Waterloo.

They must have reasons for skipping Clapham Junction though but I'd love to know what they are.

Wychwood93 · 23 Oct 2018

infobleep said:
I tweeted South Western Railway but didn't get a response so I'll ask here, anyone know why the 18:44 Waterloo to Haslemere service isn't stopping at Clapham Junction. I assume it has 12 coaches.

Usually the 18:45 stops at West Byfleet but even that station is skipped on the 18:44.

Although I didn't ask about the 18:39, that too is skipping Clapham Junction when usually it doesn't. Itvs not timetabled to leave Woking any earlier.

Now the 18:39 has less carriages than the 18:20 to Exeter, which is still stopping at Clapham Junction, although I don't know if it translates to less seats. However I can't believe the 18:20 has more capacity than the 18:44. When it stopped at Woking, there was space on it.

However given that was the case, you might expect space in the 18:44 from Waterloo.

They must have reasons for skipping Clapham Junction though but I'd love to know what they are.

According to RTT the 1839 2D55 to Guildford stopped at Clapham Jn - perhaps busy PAX wise as lost time there. The 1844 2P59 is a Portsmouth service which spent a happy 12 minutes at Haslemere before departing on time at 20.00.

infobleep · 24 Oct 2018

Wychwood93 said:
According to RTT the 1839 2D55 to Guildford stopped at Clapham Jn - perhaps busy PAX wise as lost time there. The 1844 2P59 is a Portsmouth service which spent a happy 12 minutes at Haslemere before departing on time at 20.00.

Apologies I'm confusing the 18:44 with the 18:15, which is the Haslemere service. That is usually the 18:17, which stops at Clapham Junction but during the strikes is departing in the time slot of the 18:15 to Portsmouth Harbour, still only going as far as Haslemere and not stopping at Clapham Junction.

I might think ok that's doing that because it's too busy, due to less trains running but they can't surely all be so busy that they can't stop? The one that is usually fairly busy is the 18:20 to Exeter and that was was still stopping at Clapham Junction. I admit the 18:17 is also busy and does at least relieve the 18:20 of some passengers but not to day.

infobleep · 24 Oct 2018

Wychwood93 said:
According to RTT the 1839 2D55 to Guildford stopped at Clapham Jn - perhaps busy PAX wise as lost time there.

I was actually referring to the 18:39 to Poole, which today left 14 minutes late due to a train fault. That usually stops at Clapham Junction.

I'd hope it would be 8 carriages. Usually it's 8 and it splits with 4 going to Fareham.

I remember when it was just 5 carriages to Poole. It was cozy. It could have been more rammed in some of the carriages to be fair but it was certainly busier than that Virgin West Coast service Jemery Corbyn took and I think it could have still been classed as rammed. Just that on the scale of rammed services it wouldn't be the most rammed of the rammed ones!

infobleep · 24 Oct 2018

Sure enough at some point during the night but after midnight, New Malden was indeed added as additional stop on the Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham service and the Waterloo to Woking stopping service. This does strongly suggest there is some reason why they can't be announced in advance. I seem to think something similar happened with Southern branded services during their strike and East Croydon, with an East Croydon stop only being announced on the day for, I seem to think, Gatwick Express branded trains. Whether it was due to the same reason, I know not.

Not that it matters this morning as the Woking stoppers are cancelled and they are stopping the Guildford services via Cobham, at Raynes Park and New Malden in both directions.

The 7:35 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham service left 3 minutes late today so passengers awaiting the 7:35 didn't board that one, as that one was going to take over an hour longer. This shows how useful it is for the contingency guards to sign via Adelestone. Do any of via Woking contingency guards sign via Cobham?

I also wonder, if the 7:35 had left at 7:32, as it usually does, during the leaf fall season, which let's not forget it still is, I wonder if it would have left before they could have let passengers know?

The 07:28 via Epsom was delayed but we had a green light to go from at least 07:34.

infobleep · 24 Oct 2018

I've just noticed that they have been able to run some truncated Hampton Court services, from Surbtion to Waterloo. Thus Berrylands is being served by more trains today and you can more easily get from Surbtion to Raynes Park.

Be interesting to see if they will have staff for such a service tomorrow.

Edit: I see one service started from Hampton Court.. This being the 7:55 and three started from Surbtion. In addition to that there were 7 down services but all of these skipped Berrylands and terminated at Surbtion. Does this mean one train tan ECS to Hampton Court before returning in service to Waterloo?

There is nothing listed for the rest if the day but maybe this was when they had some staff who could cover it.

fairysdad · 24 Oct 2018

Quite an interesting one yesterday afternoon - the 1539 Waterloo-Guildford via Epsom was cancelled because of the lack of a guard. Some interesting comments from the rest of the pissed-off passengers, including "Of course there's no guard, they're all on strike", and "I don't know what the problem is, they run these trains without guards some of the time anyway".

Not sure what the source of the second comment was - my guess is that there are times when the guard is not visible apart from dispatch, with no PA announcements or anything, so it is quite possible to board and alight the train without seeing the guard, and if you think it's the people on the platform that do dispatch...

bb21 · 24 Oct 2018

Please note this is not a "master" thread. There is already a disruption thread for this morning's signal failure so please use that for relevant discussion.

SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

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