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Is Manchester United FC Halt closed?

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Altfish

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Surely it's the passengers who decide if the heavy rail station is redundant or not. If Northern run Crewe-Stockport-Manchester-Old Trafford services on match days why would passengers from stations south of Manchester go to the hassle of changing to a tram at Piccadilly and paying extra for the privilege?
It is a nuisance for Northern to divert a train (is it 2 or 3 they run each way?) and crew them up, together with platform staff at OT. It is much simpler to allow fans to catch the trams when they are every 6-minutes at most. Yes, a few will be inconvenienced at Piccadilly.
You can get tickets that include the tram.
 
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Bletchleyite

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If the Pacers go by the end of 2019 you won't get a 'proper station' built before they are withdrawn. Also where exactly are you proposing the 'proper station' to go given Manchester to Trafford Park heavy rail is electrified and Northern do use 6 car 323s to Man United Halt on match days (when they aren't on strike or unwilling to work overtime)?

I'm not proposing anything, but any permanent station would just be served by the same stopping service that serves Trafford Park etc.
 

Kite159

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On Metrolink adult single is £3 or £3.20 return for Piccadilly to Old Trafford with no railcard discounts. I can't find the NR fare on brfares.com

(Undiscounted fares)

£6 for a day return Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester United (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=MAN&dest=MUF)

£8.90 for a Stockport - Manchester United ticket (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=SPT&dest=MUF) so that carries a £4.40 premium over the "Any Permitted" Stockport - Manchester Central Zones off-peak day return

£19.00 for a Crewe - Manchester United day return (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CRE&dest=MUF) so that carries a £5.70 premium over the "any permitted" Crewe - Manchester Stations.
 

clagmonster

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A cheap day return from Manchester Stns to Manchester FC is £6.00, a day singe is £4.40.
 

Kite159

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If the Pacers go by the end of 2019 you won't get a 'proper station' built before they are withdrawn. Also where exactly are you proposing the 'proper station' to go given Manchester to Trafford Park heavy rail is electrified and Northern do use 6 car 323s to Man United Halt on match days (when they aren't on strike or unwilling to work overtime)?

Is the platform at the halt long enough to hold a pair of 323s?
 

pemma

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It is a nuisance for Northern to divert a train (is it 2 or 3 they run each way?) and crew them up, together with platform staff at OT. It is much simpler to allow fans to catch the trams when they are every 6-minutes at most. Yes, a few will be inconvenienced at Piccadilly.
You can get tickets that include the tram.

So you think it's a nuisance for Northern to run extras but Metrolink try to run extras and double up more services on matchdays and that's not a nuisance for them. :roll:
 

LeylandLen

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Looking from above on Google Maps,and the satellite view, it looks as though they could do a lot better with a heavy rail service as the ground is next to Manchester International Freight Terminal ,all thats needed is a bit of imagination and a few ££££ or dollars or Chineese yen ..?A nice little station with retail space to sell even more stuff ..
 
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Not sure if any of this is relevant, but there's this...
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-utd-united-manchester-trafford-15316378
A new pedestrianised walking route to Manchester United - and a new tram stop outside the ground - is planned as part of Trafford's biggest revamp in a generation.

Hundreds of new homes, a 'civic plaza' and an upgraded White City retail park are also proposed as part of the council's multi-million pound vision .

The plan, due to be put out to consultation shortly, would see a vast swathe of Stretford and Old Trafford transformed into a new 'civic quarter'....
... which one might think would mean greater need for transport infrastructure?

But also stories that the railway is 'in the way' of potential further enlargement of Old Trafford stadium. Maybe the station needs to be sacrificed (at least in its current location) to facilitate that?
 
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sprunt

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But also stories that the railway is 'in the way' of potential further enlargement of Old Trafford stadium. Maybe the station needs to be sacrificed (at least in its current location) to facilitate that?

I don't think it's just the station that would be a problem if they wanted to enlarge the ground on that side (which is something that's rumoured semi-regularly). Looking at Google Maps, the stand opposite the side of the ground the railway is on is significantly taller than the stand on the railway side. If enlargement of the railway stand required it to be of a equivalent depth* to the stand opposite, then it would need to extend back across both the spur providing platform access, and both main running lines of the railway, which would obviously be a hugely complicated project.

*I have heard a suggestion that modern building technology might not require that, but not from any particularly authoritative source.
 

Bletchleyite

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I doubt building over the railway on some kind of bridge/tunnel like structure would be *that* complex. A football stand is relatively lightweight compared to say putting housing on a bridge over the railway, and there are plenty of cases of that.

And it's not like MUFC are short of cash.
 

Altfish

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So you think it's a nuisance for Northern to run extras but Metrolink try to run extras and double up more services on matchdays and that's not a nuisance for them. :roll:
Most Altrincham and most East Didsbury are doubles, all lines run at 6-minute intervals.
There is little to change.
 

sprunt

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I doubt building over the railway on some kind of bridge/tunnel like structure would be *that* complex. A football stand is relatively lightweight compared to say putting housing on a bridge over the railway, and there are plenty of cases of that.

And it's not like MUFC are short of cash.

Well, technically they are since they're in hundreds of millions of pounds of debt. But even if they weren't, this kind of project seems like a good way to make themselves. Would the railway be happy with the building taking place while trains were running? I would have thought that such a project would involve some kind of suspension/reduction in service for which the railway would want compensating. It may not be that complex in absolute terms, but unless someone knows different - and if there's different to be known, someone round here will - it seems like an unusually complex operation for a sports stadium extension.
 

pemma

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Most Altrincham and most East Didsbury are doubles, all lines run at 6-minute intervals.
There is little to change.

Allocations are different when Man City play at home compared to when Man United play at home.
 

Altfish

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Allocations are different when Man City play at home compared to when Man United play at home.
All they do is change the double trams around - so Metrolink can adapt to big events.
Man Utd halt allocations is also different when Man City are at home.
 

Bletchleyite

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Well, technically they are since they're in hundreds of millions of pounds of debt. But even if they weren't, this kind of project seems like a good way to make themselves. Would the railway be happy with the building taking place while trains were running? I would have thought that such a project would involve some kind of suspension/reduction in service for which the railway would want compensating. It may not be that complex in absolute terms, but unless someone knows different - and if there's different to be known, someone round here will - it seems like an unusually complex operation for a sports stadium extension.

A lot less complex than the Gerrards Cross "Tesco Value Tunnel", though we all know how that went :)
 

greyman42

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A cheap day return from Manchester Stns to Manchester FC is £6.00, a day singe is £4.40.
When I went to support Newcastle, we were herded onto a train at Piccadilly and herded of at Man U Halt. No tickets were checked at either end. The Police no doubt saw it as the best option to keep Newcastle supporters out of the City Centre.
 

Puffing Devil

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So you think it's a nuisance for Northern to run extras but Metrolink try to run extras and double up more services on matchdays and that's not a nuisance for them. :roll:

Allocations are different when Man City play at home compared to when Man United play at home.

All they do is change the double trams around - so Metrolink can adapt to big events.
Man Utd halt allocations is also different when Man City are at home.

Speaking from experience, they make no adjustments to the service for the Etihad events - single units still run through, when you would hope and expect double units during the peak. Metrolink don't strengthen services, either. Reason: "we don't get paid extra to do that". Rather neatly ignores the fare paying crush loaded customer they have in a captive market. I know as I managed to have a chat with one of their ops managers a couple of years ago when I complained about the p!ss poor service.

Luckily my back is fixed and I don't need the Tram any more. Also, no trains on match day has forced me into the car.

And don't get me started with the two lines, soon to be three, serving Old Trafford!
 

Altfish

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Speaking from experience, they make no adjustments to the service for the Etihad events - single units still run through, when you would hope and expect double units during the peak. Metrolink don't strengthen services, either. Reason: "we don't get paid extra to do that". Rather neatly ignores the fare paying crush loaded customer they have in a captive market. I know as I managed to have a chat with one of their ops managers a couple of years ago when I complained about the p!ss poor service.

Luckily my back is fixed and I don't need the Tram any more. Also, no trains on match day has forced me into the car.

And don't get me started with the two lines, soon to be three, serving Old Trafford!
I must admit I'm not sure what happens now BUT when the Altrincham to Etihad serves was not cut back to Piccadilly, they used to swap the double trams to the Etihad trams on days City were at home.
 

scrapy

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A White City station was proposed about ten years ago. It would have been on the opposite side of Sir Matt Busby Way and would of served as a park and ride into Manchester on non match days. Problem is to stop Manchester to Liverpool stoppers there would have meant reducing calls at other stations on the line which would not have been popular.
 

Altfish

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I doubt building over the railway on some kind of bridge/tunnel like structure would be *that* complex. A football stand is relatively lightweight compared to say putting housing on a bridge over the railway, and there are plenty of cases of that.

And it's not like MUFC are short of cash.
The plan has always been to construct a stand over the railway. Rumour has it that as the houses on the north side of Railway Road were coming up for sale the club were buying them. So access would be off Railway Road and the railway would be in a tunnel.
 

scrapy

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The plan has always been to construct a stand over the railway. Rumour has it that as the houses on the north side of Railway Road were coming up for sale the club were buying them. So access would be off Railway Road and the railway would be in a tunnel.
Last year United said that any plans to build over the railway would not need a tunnel as new construction techniques would allow them to build up and out. (Temporary scafolding tunnel would probably be needed above overheads) There are no immediate plans to build an extension partly due to lack of suitable alternative home whilst work takes place, I don't think groundshare with City would go down well. Building work would mean Old Trafford would have to be shut for at least a year due as site compounds and closure of Munich tunnel would prevent the remaining stands getting a safety certificate.
 

pemma

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I must admit I'm not sure what happens now BUT when the Altrincham to Etihad serves was not cut back to Piccadilly, they used to swap the double trams to the Etihad trams on days City were at home.

I remember that hence my original comment about Metrolink switching doubled up formations depending on who's playing at home. If it's the case they no longer strength Eithad Campus services on match days and blame funding then it casts doubt over the claim that Metrolink operates without any subsidy after grants cover the initial set up costs.
 

Bletchleyite

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I remember that hence my original comment about Metrolink switching doubled up formations depending on who's playing at home. If it's the case they no longer strength Eithad Campus services on match days and blame funding then it casts doubt over the claim that Metrolink operates without any subsidy after grants cover the initial set up costs.

Why does it cast doubts over that? It just says that "they won't pay us to do this, so we won't do it, as it doesn't affect the number of people who will travel and therefore the money doesn't come from fares".
 

pemma

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Why does it cast doubts over that? It just says that "they won't pay us to do this, so we won't do it, as it doesn't affect the number of people who will travel and therefore the money doesn't come from fares".

Surely if the additional passengers created enough revenue to pay for the strengthening then they wouldn't refuse to do it unless they got additional funding off an external source.
 

Puffing Devil

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Why does it cast doubts over that? It just says that "they won't pay us to do this, so we won't do it, as it doesn't affect the number of people who will travel and therefore the money doesn't come from fares".

I would say that it does affect the fare revenue: Metrolink is such a poor service at the Etihad - crush loading, single units, poor frequency - that many potential customers walk, drive or take the bus rather than wait for nearly two hours after the game for a tram.

Unless you leave before the final whistle and/or are in the stand closest to the station you're at the back of a very long queue.
 

pemma

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I would say that it does affect the fare revenue: Metrolink is such a poor service at the Etihad - crush loading, single units, poor frequency - that many potential customers walk, drive or take the bus rather than wait for nearly two hours after the game for a tram.

Unless you leave before the final whistle and/or are in the stand closest to the station you're at the back of a very long queue.

I did that the one time I went to a match at Anfield, the queue for buses to the city centre was so long I walked back, I wasn't even sure of the route but followed a large crowd of people walking in the direction I thought was correct and it was. There must have been a few hundred walking from Anfield to Lime Street and that's a longer distance than Eithad Stadium to the central Manchester stations.
 

Puffing Devil

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I did that the one time I went to a match at Anfield, the queue for buses to the city centre was so long I walked back, I wasn't even sure of the route but followed a large crowd of people walking in the direction I thought was correct and it was. There must have been a few hundred walking from Anfield to Lime Street and that's a longer distance than Eithad Stadium to the central Manchester stations.

Yes - it's an easy 30-minute stroll, or less if you're prepared to hustle a bit. I had occasion to use the tram due to injuries that made walking too hard, it was not a pleasant experience. Driving and parking on a nearby drive is now my fallback if the trains aren't running or if we can't walk to the station. I would park and ride at Altrincham if the service was halfway passable - it's not.
 

DarloRich

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The plan has always been to construct a stand over the railway. Rumour has it that as the houses on the north side of Railway Road were coming up for sale the club were buying them. So access would be off Railway Road and the railway would be in a tunnel.

I think Liverpool bought and demolished 2 streets of houses to extend their ground.
 
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