Buffet cars v Trolleys

Schweir · 27 Oct 2018

Which do you prefer on a train? Does your preference change with the distance of your journey? What is the minimum distance service (in hours or miles/km) that you think requires a trolley service?

Evidently I guess from reading the IET thread that most people seem to prefer the buffet car, but I guess the trade off for a loss of seats may not make having a buffet car worthwile for some, if having a trolley service on board increases the chance of getting a seat.

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bearhugger · 27 Oct 2018

I prefer a trolley service. Usually this is because i travel alone and don't want to risk the loss of my seat. On the occasions i do travel with someone else, i think i still prefer a trolley as we can carry on with our conversation without too much interuption. Most of my long distance train journeys are either Teesside to Manchester or Teesside to Carlisle, so not sure if that makes a difference to my preference.

NoOnesFool · 27 Oct 2018

When I give a trolley service, I sell much more than when I give a buffet service.

Schweir · 27 Oct 2018

NoOnesFool said:
When I give a trolley service, I sell much more than when I give a buffet service.

Makes sense I guess as you have to pass every passenger increasing impulse buys. I guess a lot of people won't use a buffet car because a) They can't be bothered to go to the carriage b) They don't want to leave their seat in case it is taken c) They are not even aware there is one onboard

Ethano92 · 27 Oct 2018

Not that I ever purchase anything from either but with the new generation of uncomfortable, hard seats I'd certainly prefer to stretch my legs on a trip to the buffet car

underbank · 27 Oct 2018

I usually travel alone. I don't want to risk losing my seat or bags being stolen, so it's trolley for me.

chubs · 27 Oct 2018

In the past I'd have said buffet car.

These days most stations have some very decent food and coffee options around them, so neither. The buffet does terrible coffee (no Lavazza is not good coffee) and microwave bacon rolls but at least has cold cans. The trolley does even worse food and coffee and only has warm cans of drink. They both are terrible options.

SwindonBert · 27 Oct 2018

Buffet car, at least you know where it is when you need it. With the trolley service one has to rely on both it coming to you when you want something to eat and it can get through the train.

cactustwirly · 27 Oct 2018

I prefer a buffet, but only because they do decent coffee (particularly GWR HSTs and GA LHCS)
I'd rather go thirsty than pay £2.50 for a cup of lukewarm instant.

Don't normally bother with owt else, the prices everything else are ridiculous, so I go to Tesco/Boots/Pret before I board the train

route101 · 27 Oct 2018

Prefer the Buffet as i like to stretch my legs , though only really use it if i get on or have a connection where there is poor catering . Cold cans from Buffet too .

On VTWC the trolley is rare , only seen it a few times in last few years .

Nice to see Scotrail HSTs with buffet and they seem to have a better range than LNER and VTWC.

NoOnesFool · 27 Oct 2018

I always try to have my pastries on display, where possible, and all Hosts are trained to announce and promote the full product range. It's not possible to have the full range visible, and the new Sovereign trolleys on XC and GWR actually keep some products protected by plastic sheaths because, unfortunately, some passengers will just pick and grab as they please from the trolley, instead of waiting for products to be handed to them from the Host.

Essexman · 27 Oct 2018

Always a buffet. Greater choice, hopefully hot food and available when you want it.

FGW_DID · 27 Oct 2018

I love the posts on here that whinge about the lack of buffets on the 80Xs then almost with the same breath bemoan that the trolley never came to their seat.

If you’re willing to take a walk to the buffet car, you surely don’t mind taking a walk to find the trolley!

morrisobrien · 27 Oct 2018

Depends on the Customer Host.Some tell you to get back to your seat and wait.

tgrb · 27 Oct 2018

So although I’d generally prefer a buffet for the reasons such as better selection and quality, you know where it is and you can go anytime...

I am generally travelling alone and usually have laptop out working, and it’s a right PITA to pack up and cart it all to the buffet and back... so the trolly is much more convenient and more likely to get my custom.

As for business I often travel in 1st, I’m usually a bit annoyed to find no trolly and to have to go to the buffet to get refreshments!

NoOnesFool · 27 Oct 2018

morrisobrien said:
Depends on the Customer Host.Some tell you to get back to your seat and wait.

I always tell them to go back to the seat and wait because:- I may not be ready for service; we have a number of safety checks to perform, I may also be in the middle of serving another customer or usually, I don't take carry bags on my trolley, which we need to give to anyone who is not seated and is being served a hot drink, to comply with rail safety regulations.

Intermodal · 27 Oct 2018

NoOnesFool said:
I always tell them to go back to the seat and wait because:- I may not be ready for service; we have a number of safety checks to perform, I may also be in the middle of serving another customer or usually, I don't take carry bags on my trolley, which we need to give to anyone who is not seated and is being served a hot drink, to comply with rail safety regulations.

What if someone is standing in a vestibule? Can you sell to them?

What if they sit down in the empty seat next to you, can you then serve them?

NoOnesFool · 27 Oct 2018

Intermodal said:
What if someone is standing in a vestibule? Can you sell to them?

What if they sit down in the empty seat next to you, can you then serve them?

It depends on if there is a flip down seat available in the vestibule, if so, I will advise them to sit down and then I can serve them. Customers in coaches that haven't been served yet will be prioritised over customers that have already had the opportunity to purchase and have followed the trolley afterwards, as we need to ensure that all coaches are served several times during the journey.

TractiveEffort · 27 Oct 2018

NoOnesFool said:
I always tell them to go back to the seat and wait because:- I may not be ready for service; we have a number of safety checks to perform, I may also be in the middle of serving another customer or usually, I don't take carry bags on my trolley, which we need to give to anyone who is not seated and is being served a hot drink, to comply with rail safety regulations.

I have travelled on a few services lately, where the CH’s have announced they are doing a static trolley service and they are located between coach ‘x’ and ‘y’. I have seen punters walking back with drinks and food, not in bags, so I guess the rules aren’t always followed. Seems to be easier than the trolley blocking up the gangways and knocking lumps out of the seats as they go through.....

Dave1987 · 27 Oct 2018

My own preference is a full buffet. Trolley service has an extremely limited offering, the coffee usually tastes awful as it’s instant rubbish with lukewarm water and the tea is errrr YUCK. Full buffet you can get a large selection of fresh sandwiches, bacon rolls etc. You can get full bean to cup coffee machines so the coffee is good and full boiling water for a proper cup of tea. You also have fridges to offer orange juices, fizzy drinks etc etc. Absolutely no comparison full buffet over trolley service any day. When I used to travel on GWR on before the IET was introduced my first port of call was the buffet for a cup of coffee. Now I won’t have anything from the trolley. In my experience full buffet cars are always busy with custom whereas trolley services get little. Full buffet to trolley is a giant downgrade IMO.

Robertj21a · 27 Oct 2018

Not really bothered by either. It's far easier to take my own choices on board and there's very few really long trips that I'd do without a change of train somewhere.

bionic · 27 Oct 2018

Proper buffet, not a "shop". Definitely not just a trolley. Usually though if I want supplies for the journey I load up before getting on the train. Most major trains have fairly cheap off licences and food outlets nearby. Drummond Street at Euston being my favourite stocking-up point near the London terminals.

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2018

My preference would be for a proper sit-in bistro coach with the option to take a seat/perch/stand there and enjoy my food and drink there with proper glasses, cups, cutlery and crockery.

Second choice would be a trolley, but it would need to be provided with the reliability of a buffet counter, which so often they aren't.

An improvement on a trolley might be a more airline-style steward system - the trolley might carry the basics like tea, coffee and canned soft drinks with ice, but you'd be able to order from an at-seat menu (including online via your phone) for a wider range of items to be brought to your seat.

alangla · 27 Oct 2018

Bletchleyite said:
An improvement on a trolley might be a more airline-style steward system - the trolley might carry the basics like tea, coffee and canned soft drinks with ice, but you'd be able to order from an at-seat menu (including online via your phone) for a wider range of items to be brought to your seat.

I was going to suggest this as well. Being able to get a waiter/steward to get you hot food, decent coffee & a wide range of properly cold drinks & deliver it to your seat would be a great service - basically paid-for First Class catering. I’d also suggest powered trolleys - on-board heated water & cold beer, battery powered on the move & charged when docked either off the train or at an on-board docking point. The battery would basically just keep things hot/cold, the real work would be done off the mains/train power supply.

hexagon789 · 27 Oct 2018

Personally on proper InterCity services I think there should be both plus seperate trolleys serving First and Standard where practical.

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2018

Talking of hot food, I noticed the other week that VTWC have started doing a small range of "hot pots" from the buffet. I had a vegan chilli (much as I'm normally a committed eater of dead animal of all kinds) and it was really quite good - and this kind of hot food, unlike greasy gristleburgers[1], does lend itself to being warmed up in a microwave with no loss of quality. Indeed, I often make a vat of chilli at home and freeze portions as cheaper, better quality homemade ready meals, and it tastes *nicer* on being reheated than fresh as the flavours have had time to infuse.

DB's range is similar - things like Bockwurst, soups and stews. They could even be canned/in hermetically sealed plastic/foil containers provided they were decanted into quality wood-fibre plates with wooden cutlery before serving at the seat.

[1] I used to be *very* partial to the old BR XC bacon, sausage, egg and tomato muffin, though. Had one every time I found myself on an XC train, regardless of journey length.

lxfe_mxtterz · 27 Oct 2018

Personally, I prefer a buffet or shop opposed to a trolley, as it gives me an excuse to get up out of my seat and stretch my legs (especially on a long journey). :lol:

But in all seriousness, I find that you get a greater variety to choose from at a buffet, so that'd always be my preferred option. I really like VTWCs idea of an 'onboard shop', as I do think the idea of physically choosing your items and then paying for them at the counter is quite a nice change... although I'm sure many people will have different views on this.

NoOnesFool · 27 Oct 2018

alangla said:
I was going to suggest this as well. Being able to get a waiter/steward to get you hot food, decent coffee & a wide range of properly cold drinks & deliver it to your seat would be a great service - basically paid-for First Class catering. I’d also suggest powered trolleys - on-board heated water & cold beer, battery powered on the move & charged when docked either off the train or at an on-board docking point. The battery would basically just keep things hot/cold, the real work would be done off the mains/train power supply.

There would ofcourse, be the risk of not being able to bring the food back to the customer in time. I've had situations where my pump pots have ran out on morning Peaks and I've had a customer board at Leicester, asking if I will have time to make it to my buffet, re-fill my pots and serve her tea by the time she gets off at Market Harborough and unfortunately, I had to advise her that I could only offer cold drinks. The same situation would apply with bringing heated food to passengers in airline style. We do have some hot food options, such as porridge and noodles, which can be served instantly, but it could sadly lead to customer disappointment if we offered hot food that had to be taken and brought back from a heating point. Now, on XC, the Retail Service Manager will take panninis in the galley, heat them and bring them to the customer's seat, and that system works on a four car voyager with long time periods between stops, i.e. Birmingham-Derby but I imagine it causes them problems on a 7 coach HST, especially if freak crowding occurs, which can happen often.

alangla · 27 Oct 2018

Sorry, that’s not what I was meaning, I was thinking more of being able to order, either from the trolley operator or electronically and have it made & delivered from the galley. Basically offering the opportunity to purchase the sort of stuff the first class passengers get thrown in, with at-seat delivery. To do it right & avoid the disappointment you describe you’d need to offer a pretty accurate delivery eta at the time of ordering

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2018

alangla said:
Sorry, that’s not what I was meaning, I was thinking more of being able to order, either from the trolley operator or electronically and have it made & delivered from the galley. Basically offering the opportunity to purchase the sort of stuff the first class passengers get thrown in, with at-seat delivery. To do it right & avoid the disappointment you describe you’d need to offer a pretty accurate delivery eta at the time of ordering

Or you'd have to say something like "don't order these items if your remaining journey time is less than 30 minutes as we may not be able to deliver them" - pessimistic perhaps but should avoid issues.

Buffet cars v Trolleys

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