XC HSTs being shortened?

jamesontheroad · 11 Nov 2009

Sorry, I tried searching for this info, but both search terms "XC" and "HST" are too short for the forum search engine to find anything.

I read in a post somewhere on here a few days ago that XC would be removing one standard class coach from the HSTs in December. Is this true, and what's the source?

And (tongue-semi-in-cheek) if they do remove five standard class coaches from five train sets, surely we could find two spare power cars and some spare mk. 3s to make up another unit?

RailUK Forums

Pumbaa · 11 Nov 2009

I read in a post somewhere on here a few days ago that XC would be removing one standard class coach from the HSTs in December. Is this true, and what's the source?

You're half right. They're removing two Standard trailers.

jamesontheroad · 11 Nov 2009

Pumbaa said:
You're half right. They're removing two Standard trailers.

Wowzer. So plenty of recently refurbished coaching stock just going spare. A temporary measure for the winter?

Pumbaa · 11 Nov 2009

A temporary measure to shore up their wallets. Which I highly doubt will be that temporary.

GNERman · 12 Nov 2009

jamesontheroad said:
And (tongue-semi-in-cheek) if they do remove five standard class coaches from five train sets, surely we could find two spare power cars and some spare mk. 3s to make up another unit?

there are no spare power cars at the moment, and there's not a lot of unused mk 3 coaches, except from maybe irish mk 3 coaches

asylumxl · 12 Nov 2009

introduce HSTs to increase capacity, then remove trailers to reduce it. Railway logic. I'll never understand TOCs.

jamesontheroad · 12 Nov 2009

asylumxl said:
introduce HSTs to increase capacity, then remove trailers to reduce it. Railway logic. I'll never understand TOCs.

Just as we hear the first murmurs that Virgin might seek to add a panto-carraige to their Voyagers to extend the franchise.....

furryfeet · 12 Nov 2009

so what are they going to do when the train gets wedged with the pre-christmas rush as everyone tries to get home ?

Lay on taxis, or make everyone walk ?

fgwrich · 12 Nov 2009

furryfeet said:
so what are they going to do when the train gets wedged with the pre-christmas rush as everyone tries to get home ?

Lay on taxis, or make everyone walk ?

XC Laying on Taxis :lol:

Too much for them...

From what ive heard AXCs finances are shall we say...as grey as NXs livery...

Speaking of TOCs lay on extra transport...noticed lateley FGW are getting better by the day...recently noticed, mainly on there website that several of the devon & cornwall branches, aswell as the severn beach line have been running with short formed trains...nameley dogboxs / 153s, so they are also running extra taxis or buses where avilible...

Seems a very sensible idea to me!

As for AXC removing 2 TS's out f there HST Rakes...dosent supprise me coming from the TOC that brought you, sorry the first class passenger, The TCC and the Standard Class passenger...the Trolley...:roll:

So what hairbrained idea will we see next from AXC...

Royston Vasey · 12 Nov 2009

Just trying to understand the benefit to XC. Presumably a combination of fuel, maintenance and track access savings? How significant is each?

And do the loadings justify this? I have no experience of these services since HST operation resumed.

anteat · 12 Nov 2009

From my experience the XC HST's that I have travelled on seem to be quite lightly loaded, although these have been early morning and afternoon trains on a Saturday. Removing two coaches however might make them a bit wedged around the Birmingham area on weekdays?

Techniquest · 12 Nov 2009

Every single time I travel on an AXC HST (not a lot, admittedly but doing some again this weekend

) they're pretty busy, even on weekdays. So removing coaching stock seems an odd idea.

I'll join jamesontheroad with the head smacking against a brick wall...

poshbakerloo · 12 Nov 2009

What is the point in shortening them...just get crowded...

gordonthemoron · 12 Nov 2009

perhaps they could get rid of one of the power cars? :rolleyes:

GNERman · 12 Nov 2009

probably because the hst fleet don't keep up the timing that the vomiters do as they have slower accelleration

shaun · 12 Nov 2009

So hang on let me get this straight:

They bought in 5 x HSTs to add additional capacity to the 4/5-car voyagers, but now they've decided to take 2 x STD Class coaches off the HSTs leaving once again a 5-coach train?

I don't get it...but then again a short HST is better than no HST.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

GNERman said:
probably because the hst fleet don't keep up the timing that the vomiters do as they have slower accelleration

Indeed they do, however with the amount of slack in the XC timetable timekeeping for HSTs is rarely a problem. Times haven't accelerated much since ten years ago when they had 95mph class 47s running half the services!

jamesontheroad · 12 Nov 2009

shaun said:
Indeed they do, however with the amount of slack in the XC timetable timekeeping for HSTs is rarely a problem. Times haven't accelerated much since ten years ago when they had 95mph class 47s running half the services!

Hey! There's an idea. Anyone know of any 47s going spare? It'll be just like the old days

starrymarkb · 12 Nov 2009

Which will cost them even more in delayrepay compensation for the inevitable breakdowns. They weren't the most reliable of things.

And as for Cross Country - its widely suspected that its a matter of "when" rather then "if" they do an NXEC.

Pumbaa · 12 Nov 2009

And as for Cross Country - its widely suspected that its a matter of "when" rather then "if" they do an NXEC.

Not surprising really. Arriva made some very aggressive bids for franchises, both wildly optimistic. DfT didn't give East Coast to Arriva, as they felt their bid was too unrealistic. The rumour mill has been spewing Arriva out for a while now.

starrymarkb · 12 Nov 2009

Its also known that Arriva outsourced their bidding to another company (bids cost a lot in money and hours to put together). They should have kept more on an eye on their contractors.

Its been a poison chalice since it started. They had trouble finding an MD as no-one wanted to touch it with a barge pole. IIRC the guy they found was the head of the team that got them in the mess!

asylumxl · 12 Nov 2009

starrymarkb said:
Its been a poison chalice since it started. They had trouble finding an MD as no-one wanted to touch it with a barge pole. IIRC the guy they found was the head of the team that got them in the mess!

You made a typo. Left case off the end of the word head.

jamesontheroad · 12 Nov 2009

Directly Operated Railways could become the single biggest operator in the country if all there rumours are true

GNERman · 12 Nov 2009

what rumours are these? they have the east coast, who else?

Ferret · 12 Nov 2009

Pumbaa said:
You're half right. They're removing two Standard trailers.

As it stands, all 5 sets have been reduced to 2+7 formation - I'm not aware of any plans to reduce them further.

Royston Vasey · 12 Nov 2009

So to conclude, no one has any idea what the economic case is. Lots of broad statements but no facts!

It could be so they can maintain the coaches a few at a time without having a full set out of action. Who knows!

Helvellyn · 12 Nov 2009

So yet again lots of speculation, and few facts. I gather the sets are now 2+7 formed, but nothing has been said to confirm this is a permanent move, or if next summer they'll be back as 2+8. Given that in the summer months they probably carry a lot of holidaymakers to the SouthWest, I'd imagine the loads are lighter in winter. So if XC can save some money by storing a TS from each set for a few months, what's wrong with that?

Now if someone comes back and says those trailers are being permanently removed, and taken off lease, then that changes the story a bit. But if they are just stored, XC is still leasing them but saving money in track access charges by running a 2+7 set (as opposed to 2+8), plus it is saving fuel as the power cars have less weight to be powering up and down the country.

Sir_Clagalot · 12 Nov 2009

Surely the extra punters you can get on would be enough to keep the current formation? Unless they are removing them for planned downtime, and that the vehicles will be swapped around with the remaining ones as and when exams etc are due? Of course, with Christmas only being a few weeks away you would have thought that longer trains on the core route would be beneficial for the passengers and the TOC.

poshbakerloo · 13 Nov 2009

I was on a jammed XC train Macclesfield-Oxford for 2.5hrs...standing room only the whole way!

fgwrich · 13 Nov 2009

poshbakerloo said:
I was on a jammed XC train Macclesfield-Oxford for 2.5hrs...standing room only the whole way!

Thar reminds me..As AXC are becoming shorter and shorter on the money side...yet they belive the only way to increase this is to shorten the HST sets...Why cant they use them on other routes aswell such as the bournemouth + routes...Especially as in recent weeks, Quite a few of the workings down here seem to be pairs of 220s...

Andrew · 13 Nov 2009

Last few Bournemouth services I've seen have been 4 coaches which is ridiculous. Even a 5 coach 22x would be better, never mind about "Oh no, only 7 coach HSTs down to Plymouth!"

XC HSTs being shortened?

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member