Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Company Christmas parties rarely take place on Saturdays. Fridays are more common so people go straight from work.
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Arriva Rail North DOO
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Company Christmas parties rarely take place on Saturdays. Fridays are more common so people go straight from work.
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Kite159
Veteran Member
Depends if it is an official company Christmas party or a group of work colleagues heading out on their own accord.
Certainly around here due to shift work during the week, not everybody finishes at the same time
Indeed. Although, social and special interest groups quite often organise Christmas parties on Saturdays.
Thursday is often the new Friday for office parties.
theblackwatch
Established Member
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Have you anything to add to this, given today's announcement concerning not only the rest of November, but December too?
A five digit number doesn't tell much at all. 10,000 is a very small number for an area such as GM. 99,999 is more impressive.
I don't know the exact figure but know it's well over the 10,000 mark which is why I just said 5 digits.
The RMT are in dispute because it's their members' jobs that are potentially at risk, although of course safety concerns form a key part of the dispute. I'm pretty certain that ASLEF will end up failing to agree in due course with a different agenda (but hopefully the same ultimate objective), but - wisely or otherwise - the RMT have chosen to preempt those discussions.
To do so would undermine their position that no extension of DOO is acceptable, although I don't entirely disagree with what you suggest. "Less unhappy" rather than "happier", perhaps.
If the government's objectives were (a) transparent and (b) made sense, then we might all be able to make some progress. As it is, the government's pretending that it's all Northern's doing, Northern seem reluctant to highlight the DfT's role and the RMT won't stop going on about German basketcases. I just can't correlate the statements being made by the industry and the government with the RSSB's reports with an emphasis on cost savings. If it's not about cost savings, what's the point of it all? If it's about avoiding the hypothetical 0.25% of services being cancelled (as you suggested earlier), then it's not worked as I'm sure that far more services have been cancelled this year than would've been cancelled in my lifetime otherwise. If it's about "improving customer service", then it just seems flawed and a poor alternative to just managing and supporting the existing staff properly.
Truth is nobody really knows. It may see people be more inclined to have partys in the week or on Friday nights spreading trade over the week. It may benefit bus companies, taxi firms and hotels if people find alternatives. Some who rely on the train might just stay with a friend.
It maybe that people stay close to home and visit a local restaurant or pub boosting their trade. There are also plenty of Xmas party locations such as Tatton Park that aren't in city centres and aren't directly served by trains and they manage.
Some places will benefit and some will loose out but I doubt it will be an economic disaster.
Of course that would then no doubt mean that any target the DFT has set for reducing subsidy would be completely missed . The leasing costs for a whole new fleet would more than consume any saving made by introducing stock which circumvents the need for a guard .
Not to mention that Network rail would need to have sufficient funding provided to install the equipment necessary for ASDO , and probably improve lighting and underfoot conditions on platforms at a number of stations outside of the urban areas
I personally cannot see Grayling et al turning up with a blank check to make the suggestions you have just made at all possible .
DaveB10780
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“We thank the public for their support and understanding throughout this dispute over rail safety and access and the union remains ready for genuine and serious talks.”
What a load of baloney, living in fairy land.
What a load of baloney, living in fairy land.
Robertj21a
On Moderation
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Quite.
It's going to be crazy if guards are dismissed in 2019-2020 when they would have had secure jobs for many more years/forever. It is, however, beginning to look more likely.
Not sure how that helps the RMT plan to keep membership levels up !
You would have thought that the RMT might have considered what happened to the dockers and the miners. Presumably they just think they are immune........
Or far more likely Cities and businesses less busy.
Confused52
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Well it is by increasing the services offered with the new services effectively costing less, whether directly or indirectly by DCO on other services. That is consistent with not being about getting rid of current guards but not letting the working method which is inefficient continue into the future, a pragmatic way forwards.
If I were in charge of a response to this situation I wouldn't expect to take much account of what was expected by enthusiasts and certainly would not be fettered by what the union expects. The overall distance involved is in any case less important than the time between staffed stops in terms of what the public seems to want.
The ability to waive the conditions for reimbursement are built into the franchise agreement already because they at the discretion of the Secretary of State. If the 50% DCO requirement were to be lowered others could claim that their behaviour in respect of the ITT would have been different if they had known that the Government was not serious about DCO. Furthermore any future requirement of that type associated with subsidy taking franchises would be fatally flawed. I will not hold my breath waiting for the government to concede on DCO.
I would suggest that the RMT may be ignoring the role of the DfT because they don't want to make explicit the political background of the dispute fearing they may lose support if the right-wing press suggest a choice between extra guards or nurses.
alansheppard77
Member
this is disgusting enough is enough why are the goverment not getting involved,the staff must earn so much money they can afford not to work,why dont they think about the people who are paying there wages
furnessvale
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I take your point and it will be inconvenient but no more than that.
Last year, more than 9 million people visited the Christmas markets over the 6 week period they were on. If Northern carried 10,000 EVERY day for the six weeks, which they don't, they would carry 420,000 people ie 5% of the visitors, pretty much the average rail percentage for UK passenger transport as a whole.
What do you expect the Government to do? The Department for Transport is generally very happy to let others receive the blame for things that have originated from their mess…
alansheppard77
Member
to stop these pointless strikes as no staff are losing there jobs
trainophile
Established Member
Are guards trained in emergency first aid? Just wondering what it is anticipated will happen regarding the all too frequent “passenger taken ill” situations. You can’t expect untrained fellow passengers to know what to do.
I suppose someone would have to press the communication button but how many would feel confident to do that?
I suppose someone would have to press the communication button but how many would feel confident to do that?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
No. Something which I find to be utterly disgraceful, personally.
It'd be a lot more than 10,000 I just don't know how much more. Mid-Cheshire line services usually take in a few thousand people in to Manchester alone and that's not the busiest line in to Manchester and it's one of many routes in to Manchester. I couldn't find stats on how many Christmas market visitors Manchester was estimated as getting in 2017 but I did find a report showing that the visitors who travel further to get to the Christmas markets spend more both at the market and in the city. Losing out on Cheshire visitors might well have a much more detrimental effect than losing the same number who use the Oldham and Bury Metrolink lines to get in.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Metrolink is fully DOO. Might we see more moves towards conversions of lines, perhaps on a tram-train basis? Could get rid of more 15x too.
A normal workplace with 25 workers has to have trained first aiders so it's stupid a train carrying a few hundred passengers doesn't. However, given that fact on a commuter service there's perhaps a high chance of there being someone on board who's trained in first aid but it's not necessarily a member of rail staff and not necessarily someone who will be aware of the emergency.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I personally believe any customer facing member of staff in any industry should be mandated by law, unless unable due to a disability, to hold a basic first aid certificate along the lines of the one-day-every-3-years Scout First Response qualification.
For staff who could end up without help for a long time - so all traincrew, or at least all guards, OBS and DOO drivers - a more detailed course would be appropriate.
It would save lives, not only on the railway.
TfGM have aspirations about the Rose Hill Marple route and also the Hadfield route. They've also looked at other routes but the figures the abacus gives for tram-train services to Wigan via Atherton or Hale/Knutsford don't look attractive - in the case of the latter they decided heavy rail electrification of the Mid-Cheshire would be more appropriate! Altrincham to Stockport shuttles and extending Metrolink from East Didsbury to Hazel Grove via a freight line are both options they want to keep on the table, even if they probably wouldn't release any DMUs.
DaveB10780
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Why not have a few Sunday strikes (and maybe weekdays) instead to lend some credence that it is mostly about safety concerns rather than a cynical way to have Saturday off. We wont forget these ludicrous strikes in a hurry, for goodness sake jobs have been preserved for many years which is more than many people.
To be fair to the member concerned I believe they did originally warn us of the strong possibility of strikes every Saturday until Christmas, before they later posted the incorrect information you mentionedHave you anything to add to this, given today's announcement concerning not only the rest of November, but December too?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If they want to force Northern/the Government's hands, they'll have to go "all out". Saturdays, while annoying, are a bit "noise level" when driving is an option too.
Is it not about time high profile figures in the area such as Andy Burnham got involved to try and break the deadlock?
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