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Carriage features - which do you think are the most important?

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Schweir

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Imagine you just own a basic train carriage with none of the features below. Assume the carriage has basic seats(without tables), a bin and all the relevant health & saftey (including first aid) information and equipment. Rank the following features from what you think is the most important to include to the least important. Ignore making your decision based on cost of the feature. Purely base your decision on which features you think are the most practical, you would use the most etc...

Toilet
Disabled Access
Wifi
Charging Points
Bike storage
Overhead Luggage rack
End of carriage Luggage rack (for larger suitcases)
Information Screens
Buffet Trolley
Onboard Entertainment Screen (NOT requiring Wifi)
Seat Reservations
Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination)
Seats with access to a table.

Please add any more you can think of too :)
 
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ijmad

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Metro or Intercity? This makes a huge difference. The list would almost be the opposite way up for me between these two extremes!

If it's metro routes, I'd say most important would be onboard information, least important would be a toilet, and a buffet trolley (actually undesirable on commuter services).

For intercity routes the most important would be a toilet, a buffet trolley is highly desirable, but information screens are less important because intercity passengers tend to have fixed tickets and routes are less frequent and less subject to change so less confusion.

This is the problem with Thameslink. The same train is trying to do both.
 

ComUtoR

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I find none of those to be of any importance. Toilet maybe but as long as there is one on the train I'm not bothered.
 

RichT54

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How does this "Onboard Entertainment Screen" work if it doesn't use WiFi?

Last thing I would want would be distracting screens in a train (or anywhere else come to that).
 

ijmad

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How does this "Onboard Entertainment Screen" work if it doesn't use WiFi?

Last thing I would want would be distracting screens in a train (or anywhere else come to that).

FGW were running some carriages in their HST sets with seat back entertainment screens. They worked like aircraft, just a pre-recorded set of movies and TV episodes. Think they canned it a few years ago, probably because no-one used them because it cost £3.50 to use.

They may well have been using wifi to talk to the media server, but I imagine the server was hidden somewhere in the carriage, as it wasn't dependent on the Internet connection being up and running.
 

RichT54

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FGW were running some carriages in their HST sets with seat back entertainment screens. They worked like aircraft, just a pre-recorded set of movies and TV episodes. Think they canned it a few years ago, probably because no-one used them because it cost £3.50 to use.

They may well have been using wifi to talk to the media server, but I imagine the server was hidden somewhere in the carriage, as it wasn't dependent on the Internet connection being up and running.

Thanks, ijmad. It's a pet hate of mine, being stuck somewhere with a TV running, like at my dentist's waiting room or the local car dealership.
 

ijmad

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Thanks, ijmad. It's a pet hate of mine, being stuck somewhere with a TV running, like at my dentist's waiting room or the local car dealership.

If it's any consolation they were headphone only and set up with a pretty narrow viewing angle so you couldn't see the picture if you weren't directly in front of them. I tried it on one journey but I am unsurprised they weren't successful when everyone has phones and tablets with Netflix and iPlayer on - although phone signals aren't always reliable on the GWML, the gaps are pretty small and all the apps do clever buffering to lessen the interruptions!
 

Pigeon

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Should be standard equipment. Not everyone can hold it in until the next station or whatever. Ten minutes is more than enough to have an accident if your body works in an uncongenial way.

Disabled Access

Legal requirement, so should be part of what a "basic carriage" is.

Wifi
Charging Points
Onboard Entertainment Screen (NOT requiring Wifi)

Don't give a monkey's about any of these and wouldn't even notice whether they were there or not (unless the "onboard entertainment screen" couldn't be switched off, in which case I'd carry some gaffer tape in my pocket to cover it up with).

Bike storage

Needs to exist on the train somewhere but doesn't need to be in every carriage as long as one of them has it.

Overhead Luggage rack
End of carriage Luggage rack (for larger suitcases)

Overhead luggage rack is a no-brainer - it's only a shelf and it doesn't take up space that is also useful for something else. On the other hand the end-of-carriage one is probably more useful as you don't have to lug your stuff through the carriage, don't have to crane up to the ceiling to use it, and don't have to worry about stuff falling on people's heads. Personally I hardly ever use either.

Buffet Trolley
Seat Reservations

How are these carriage fitments? One is a thing that gets loaded on to the train and trundled up and down it, not part of the furniture. The other is a function of the ticketing system and takes place before you even get near the train; all it requires of the train itself is that it has seats at all.

Information Screens
Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination)

How are these not the same thing?

Can be useful but paper stickers on the doors more so, since you can read them before you get on; inside the train it's often too late. If they are there, for goodness sake make them static non-luminous "e-ink" type displays, and not these infuriating scrolling orange LED things that are so big, bright and moving they're a constant unwanted grabber of attention. But I'd not really notice if there wasn't anything at all.

Seats with access to a table.

Of course!

Please add any more you can think of too :)

Seats that line up with the windows.
Big windows for the seats to line up with.
Seats with nice soft cushions.
Seats with spacing that recognises the existence of legs.
 

ijmad

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Should be standard equipment. Not everyone can hold it in until the next station or whatever. Ten minutes is more than enough to have an accident if your body works in an uncongenial way.

Sorry, but I disagree. A toilet is a waste of space during crush hours in to the London terminals. People can't move up and down the carriages to access it, because the aisles are full of standing passengers. Toilets take up a lot of floor space that could be more useful for bodies.

Since these trains stop pretty often, surely it would be more sensible to provide toilets at stations. Provide free-to-use toilets at every station at every staffed station, and a disabled (key access) toilet at every unstaffed station.

Of course, on intercity routes, toilets are an absolute necessity.
 

Ethano92

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Seats that line up with the windows.
Big windows for the seats to line up with.
Seats with nice soft cushions.
Seats with spacing that recognises the existence of legs.

Agree with the comfort of the seat. Last comment about leg room made me laugh too. I don't care whether they're for 1 hour or 10 hour journeys, a train should provide adequate comfort because even on a 10 hour train, some will still only be going 30 minutes. I know it's not 10 hours but an example of this is a HST down to Penzance. Some will only be going as far as Reading so why shouldn't those on the slow lines going to Twyford who will be sitting for longer not have comfort too. Obviously you don't need as big, prominent seats a HST has for a commuter train but there are other options than fainsa and I understand comfort is subjective; it's just the vast majority would prefer something else over a fainsa from observation. IETs aren't much better, in general, I do prefer hitachis trains on HS1.

As for seats lining up with windows, this is another subjective matter. Some wouldn't consider that important but instead expect WiFi and a seat back table to watch Netflix and have a snack instead. On a shorter distance train, or a train I commute on daily I'd much prefer that rather than seeing the same trees go past daily.

I don't think air con/climate control was included. Maybe it's just my privileged London arse who expects 8-12car, electric air conned trains but I do think it should come standard (the air con bit). Im guessing all new trains must have it now so maybe I don't need to mention it, obviously I don't expect older trains to have it but I find it unfair some have to expect a 2 car DMUs even in the height of summer knowing the TOC has no plan of replacing them. At least I know the old trains on my route are getting replaced next year.

Also, to the comment directly above my phone isn't letting me quote right now: I understand the railways are put under the most pressure at rush hour and they should focus on delivering the best service at that point but really full trains such as that last altogether 2-3 hours of the day and as the train moves along, it gets emptier leaving those going further with a toilet they can access. Also I know I'll try to go to the part of the platform I know the carriage with the toilet will be so I can enter through the door nearest to it if I need to go. Usually roughly 2nd carriage, middle carriage etc.
 
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al78

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Sorry, but I disagree. A toilet is a waste of space during crush hours in to the London terminals. People can't move up and down the carriages to access it, because the aisles are full of standing passengers. Toilets take up a lot of floor space that could be more useful for bodies.

Since these trains stop pretty often, surely it would be more sensible to provide toilets at stations. Provide free-to-use toilets at every station at every staffed station, and a disabled (key access) toilet at every unstaffed station.

Of course, on intercity routes, toilets are an absolute necessity.

That might possibly work for those who don't have crohns disease or other issues where if you have to go you will go like it or not, but that still means people have to hold their bladder until they reach their destination station, as it would be impractical to stop the train to allow people to get off, go to the toilet, then get back on the train. Even if people can hold their bladder for the duration of their journey, what happens if they can't hold it because a half hour delay has just been inflicted?
 

ijmad

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That might possibly work for those who don't have crohns disease or other issues where if you have to go you will go like it or not, but that still means people have to hold their bladder until they reach their destination station, as it would be impractical to stop the train to allow people to get off, go to the toilet, then get back on the train. Even if people can hold their bladder for the duration of their journey, what happens if they can't hold it because a half hour delay has just been inflicted?

My thought was you'd get off the train, use the toilet, and then catch the next train on the same route behind it. Not a problem during the commuter rush on metro services. It's what Crossrail is doing, toilet-wise. How do people with Crohn's or incontinence cope during peak hours when they're not able to board the same carriage as the toilet? Or if the toilet they are near is out of order? Genuinely, I want to be open minded on this and be as accommodating to people with these issues, but I just don't see how toilets on trains that are normally packed to the roof would be helpful anyway, when it takes 10+ minutes to work your way down the aisle of a carriage begging people to let you through.
 

Ethano92

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My thought was you'd get off the train, use the toilet, and then catch the next train on the same route behind it. Not a problem during the commuter rush on metro services. It's what Crossrail is doing, toilet-wise. How do people with Crohn's or incontinence cope during peak hours when they're not able to board the same carriage as the toilet? Or if the toilet they are near is out of order? Genuinely, I want to be open minded on this and be as accommodating to people with these issues, but I just don't see how toilets on trains that are normally packed to the roof would be helpful anyway, when it takes 10+ minutes to work your way down the aisle of a carriage begging people to let you through.

10 minutes may still be less than the time to the next station stop where you then need to find the toilet which may be outside the ticket barrier so you then need to explain to staff... It can all add up easily. Anyway, with modern displays such as those on the 700s it tells you which toilets are working and you may be able to see the light to tell you the toilet is engaged/not working from further away.

Either way, I understand your point fully and of course at peak times it may seem like toilets are no help but I don't get why everyone is always so focused on ram packed peak time trains, trains do run at other times of the day, those other times of the day are longer as well
 

Esker-pades

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Sorry, but I disagree. A toilet is a waste of space during crush hours in to the London terminals. People can't move up and down the carriages to access it, because the aisles are full of standing passengers. Toilets take up a lot of floor space that could be more useful for bodies.

Since these trains stop pretty often, surely it would be more sensible to provide toilets at stations. Provide free-to-use toilets at every station at every staffed station, and a disabled (key access) toilet at every unstaffed station.

Of course, on intercity routes, toilets are an absolute necessity.

Problems:
People make quite long journeys on trains with no toilets. Dartford/Gravesend/Orpington/Sevenoaks/Hayes to London on a 376 is not a negligable journey (for example).
Rush hour is not the majority of the day.
Trains often don't shuttle up and down the same line. A train could operate a short-distance service followed by a much longer distance service, which would cross the no-need-for-toilet-length to toilet-length-journey boundary.
 

whhistle

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Charging Points (quick charge USB socket would be better than a plug socket).
Information Screens
Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination)
Disabled Access
Overhead Luggage rack
Seats with access to a table.
Wifi

-------------------------------
Toilet
Bike storage
End of carriage Luggage rack (for larger suitcases)
Buffet Trolley
Onboard Entertainment Screen (NOT requiring Wifi)
Seat Reservations


Rated WiFi low as it's awful.
Patchy reception, limits on useage = I may as well just use the large amount of data I have every month.

All below the line could not be on a train and I wouldn't be crying.
 

uxm

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I believe that toilets , climate control with sealed windows air conditioning and heating, sockets , usb ports, Wi-Fi, LCD infotainment display and digital seat reservation
 

hooverboy

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I believe that toilets , climate control with sealed windows air conditioning and heating, sockets , usb ports, Wi-Fi, LCD infotainment display and digital seat reservation
beg to differ on the sealed windows.
they're actually quite dangerous if the aircon breaks down.Climate control these days is a must,and it must also function.

carriages need a couple of "openable" top hatches on windows just in case it does pack up.
 

uxm

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beg to differ on the sealed windows.
they're actually quite dangerous if the aircon breaks down.Climate control these days is a must,and it must also function.

carriages need a couple of "openable" top hatches on windows just in case it does pack up.
When the air conditioning breaks down it switches to air cooling which brings more air in than open windows.
 
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Chris M

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On intercity, and long distance rural services circa 1 per carriage is essential.
1-2 per train is fine on outer suburban services.
On Inner-suburban/metro services they are a waste of space.

Disabled Access
Every carriage needs to be accessible (i.e. able to accessed) by people with as wide a range of disabilities as possible.
In terms of in-carriage accommodation for people with disabilities, there should be seats close to every doorway on every carriage (for people who are not in wheelchairs but unable to walk a significant distance easily and/or quickly so they can be seated before the train moves and have time to alight without having to stand before the train comes to a halt). On intercity/long distance/outer suburban services there should also be also be 1-2 wheelchair spaces in most carriages (this is not incompatible with my previous comment - just put seats on one side of the train and a wheelchair space opposite). This space must be separate from luggage storage spaces.
On inner suburban/Metro services there should be combined standing/wheelchair areas adjacent to every doorway (with wheelchair priority of course).

A nice to have, but not essential regardless of type of train.

Charging Points
Very significantly useful on outer suburban and longer distance trains. More hassle than they're worth on metro services.

Bike storage
One or two sufficiently large dedicated bike storages area per train is all that is required for outer suburban, inter city and rural services. Inner suburban and metro services should have sufficiently large standing areas that bikes can be accommodated there when not required for standing or wheelchair passengers.

Overhead Luggage rack
Essential for intercity and long distance rural services. Useful but not essential for suburban routes. Not required for metro carriages.

End of carriage Luggage rack (for larger suitcases)
Essential for intercity services, and long distance rural services. Sometimes useful, sometimes not on outer suburban. A waste of space on inner suburban and metro.

Information Screens
Essential for metro and suburban routes, a nice to have on longer distance routes.

Buffet Trolley
Very nice to have on long-distance intercity and rural routes, especially if there is no buffet. Meh on outer suburban routes. Actively unhelpful on inner suburban and metro.

Onboard Entertainment Screen (NOT requiring Wifi)
Meh on long distance intercity services. A waste of money for everything else.

Seat Reservations
On intercity routes and anything outer suburban or longer that run infrequently they are essential, but as long as they work whether paper or electronic doesn't really matter.
A big no-no on metro, inner suburban and other high frequency short distance routes.

Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination)
See above.

Seats with access to a table.
Essential on intercity and long distance rural - the longer the journeys the more useful a proper table is. For intercity services something like at least 50%-80% of seats should have a proper table. A few proper tables per carriage is fine for outer suburban. Tables are a waste of space on inner suburban and metro routes.
 

sprunt

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Overhead Luggage rack

Essential for intercity and long distance rural services. Useful but not essential for suburban routes. Not required for metro carriages.

I disagree. On a lot of crowded commuter services, the possibility for people to put their bags in overhead racks increases space/comfort.
 

HSTFan57

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My wish list is:
Toilet
GPS reception, so I know where the train is (Voyagers fail on this point)
4G reception (which I would use in preference to Wifi)
Charging Points
Buffet Trolley (run by Marks & Spencer, stocked with Cheddar and Celery sandwiches and good coffee)
Overhead Luggage rack
Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination)
Airline seats
I rarely use seat reservations, but if they exist, the display system used on class 800s is the clearest I've seen, when it works.
 
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1. Disabled Access — should be first. Level boarding for example makes it easier for those with luggage too. Or small children.
2. Toilet — fairly obvious.
3. Charging points at every seat — USB sockets as a minimum, plug sockets too if can have both. (Plugs on window seats and USB sockets on all seats?)
4. Air con.
5. Wi-Fi.
6. Sufficient leg room on all seats. I’m short and find the tables cramped so how anyone tall copes I don’t know.

The things below I don’t care about but should probably be included...

* Bike storage.
* Overhead luggage rack — what else can the space be used for?!
* End of carriage luggage rack (for larger suitcases).
* Onboard information screen (i.e displaying all calling points and the final destination) — though this could easily be put on posters instead.

And these could all be removed as far as I’m concerned...

* Information screens.
* Buffet trolley.
* Onboard entertainment screen (NOT requiring Wifi).
* Seat reservations.
* Seats with access to a table.
 
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