Uniform policy and political badges

Qwerty133 · 6 Nov 2018

ComUtoR said:
But it delivers a political message and glorifies war. It is also strictly against my uniform policy.

What about a White Poppy ?

The red poppy may have political origins but most see it as a charity symbol of remembrance so to me whether the red poppy should be allowed depends on whether other charity symbols are permitted.
However the white poppy is inherently political and should therefore be prohibited as should union badges and ties as the main rail unions as currently partaking in a number of disputes that are undeniably political.

RailUK Forums

142Pilot · 6 Nov 2018

I did 2 Iraq 1 Afghan 1 Kosovo and a few Northern Irelands.

It's generally my stock answer to the eternally offended who question why I refuse to wear a poppy. I completely reject the need for the poppy appeal as a cop out by the state who's job it is meant to be to look after the servicemen and women on return from tours.

It doesn't dilute the point that all badges should be forbidden to be worn on uniforms. Including my veterans ones.

bramling · 6 Nov 2018

Mingulay said:
i am curious know if there is a policy of staff in uniform being precluded in wearing political badges.

I don’t mean union badges I mean campaign or party political in message.

I noticed a scotrail train crew wearing a campaign badge. I won’t say what party as that’s not important or to imply prejudice on my part.

Clearly some professions and jobs it is not appropriate to show political allegence. Not sure train staff would be in that category

Just given polarisation in our politics these days displaying In or Out. Or Yes or No badges could invite confrontation which staff clearly don’t need.

Generally the answer is no.

The reality is that sooner or later, probably sooner, someone is going to take offence to something someone is wearing - which then results in management time having to be taken up dealing with a grievance. This can also result in people being unavailable for their normal duty, either as part of the grievance management process, or being off sick with stress or whatever.

Mingulay · 6 Nov 2018

142Pilot said:
I did 2 Iraq 1 Afghan 1 Kosovo and a few Northern Irelands.

It's generally my stock answer to the eternally offended who question why I refuse to wear a poppy. I completely reject the need for the poppy appeal as a cop out by the state who's job it is meant to be to look after the servicemen and women on return from tours.

It doesn't dilute the point that all badges should be forbidden to be worn on uniforms. Including my veterans ones.

I had not thought my post would have taken the debate in the direction it has on the poppy which I don’t see and most don’t see as controversial. I regret raising it now. I think most of us can readily distinguish between political badges and charitable ones. But I do respect those who make interesting points that are not the conventional wisdom. I would agree with you the state has a fundamental responsibility to provide for service personnel post service and ensure in service the equipment is fit for purpose. Too many pen pushers in Whitehall Mod placing service personel in harms way without the right kit. But that’s a separate debate. There is always a place for charity but it should not replace the states responsibility to its military

Think the consensus is however. No party political badges on uniforms or in the work place.

Ianigsy · 6 Nov 2018

An interesting subject- I remember a year or two back seeing a TPE guard wearing an RMT Palestinian solidarity badge, which I thought at the time was potentially misjudged considering the visibility and contribution of the Jewish communities in Leeds and Manchester. (I'm aware that support for the Palestinian cause doesn't equal anti-Semitism, but not everybody is)

Equally brave was the Northern guard who used to crop up on my train home every so often with a West Ham badge...

NorthernSpirit · 6 Nov 2018

ComUtoR said:
What about a Poppy ? They are often considered to be political.

DPWH said:
I think given the number of railwaymen that gave their lives during the World Wars, wearing a poppy isn't going to be considered inappropriate.

I see it as those who are kitted out with a poppy are showing their fullest respects of those who have gone before them. Whether its getting the evacuees to safety, training women up to cover their job or simply going to the trenches - seeing todays railway'men with one shows that the railway is and continues to be one large "family".

philthetube · 6 Nov 2018

LUL trains are wearing their poppies again this year.

PudseyBearHST · 6 Nov 2018

Ianigsy said:
An interesting subject- I remember a year or two back seeing a TPE guard wearing an RMT Palestinian solidarity badge, which I thought at the time was potentially misjudged considering the visibility and contribution of the Jewish communities in Leeds and Manchester. (I'm aware that support for the Palestinian cause doesn't equal anti-Semitism, but not everybody is)

Equally brave was the Northern guard who used to crop up on my train home every so often with a West Ham badge...

There was a SWT Commercial Guard wearing a West Ham lanyard .

muz379 · 6 Nov 2018

ComUtoR said:
What about a Poppy ? They are often considered to be political.

Most railway staff I work with wear one . Never known any manager cause a problem about them . Don't think anyone would dare create the bad press .

As for them being political ,they may well be and imo become increasingly political year on year . But I think because of the connotations surrounding them it is exceptionally rare for anybody to cause an issue about public facing staff in any organisation wearing them . I know a fair few people who consciously dont wear them , and they just quietly do so they never complain about others decision to do so .

berwicksfinest · 6 Nov 2018

Personally I wear my football team badges ......... well if Berwick can be called a football team, and this time of year a red poppy and purple poppy, these are for my reasons and my remembrance. if someone wants to challenge me, please don't do it when I'm on early's

trash80 · 6 Nov 2018

Train staff seem to be the only people i see wearing union badges, it doesn't seem to be something you see in other professions (or maybe not?)

I can't ever envisage turning up at my office in a Unite badge (though no one would probably know what it was anyway!)

PudseyBearHST · 6 Nov 2018

trash80 said:
Train staff seem to be the only people i see wearing union badges, it doesn't seem to be something you see in other professions (or maybe not?)

I can't ever envisage turning up at my office in a Unite badge (though no one would probably know what it was anyway!)

I’m always proudly wearing one of my ASLEF ties which I have in various colours <:D

Most of the drivers over here wear an ASLEF lanyard rather than the company one so it’s not just badges.

tiptoptaff · 6 Nov 2018

Although I'm unsure on what my TOC's policy actually is - and being I work in Control rather than on the front line, I wear a poppy pin (all year round), union badge and Britain Runs on Rail. I have never been asked to remove any.

I see my colleagues wearing poppies, union badges, depot badges, traction badges, one was wearing a commemorative badge today for the end of LHCS on the Waterloo to Exeter line. I see Pride badges, special event badges, Swansea crew wear a lot of dragons. No one seems to bat an eyelid.

I don't see any party political ones. I think that's the line, it's not specifically mentioned, but no one crosses it.

Harbornite · 6 Nov 2018

142Pilot said:
Was just thinking this.

I personally would ban all badges, union/LGBT/Cancer research/poppy et al.

Uniform should be just that. Either confirm to the standard that is set by the company or don't wear it at all and find a job that will let you dress how you want.

Cancer research badges? Why would you want them banned?

142Pilot · 6 Nov 2018

Harbornite said:
Cancer research badges? Why would you want them banned?

I don't particularly want them banned. I have nothing against any of the above charities or organisations.

I would like to see all badges banned. Uniform is just that. Unless it is mandated to be worn then it should not be.

berwicksfinest · 6 Nov 2018

142Pilot said:
I don't particularly want them banned. I have nothing against any of the above charities or organisations.

I would like to see all badges banned. Uniform is just that. Unless it is mandated to be worn then it should not be.

My company don't specify Boxers, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want me taking charge of a train commando !!

142Pilot · 6 Nov 2018

berwicksfinest said:
My company don't specify Boxers, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want me taking charge of a train commando !!

But they do state trousers. So what you do with your smalls is up to you.

Furthermore the passengers won't know if your commando or not. Yet if you wear a badge it sticks out.

Uniform is not meant to do that. It is all meant to present a consistent image.

With the million and one badges now adorned it dilutes the point of uniform.

JetStream · 6 Nov 2018

I'm convinced I saw a Scottish Yes badge on a ATW guard/driver's uniform when it was ongoing.

Temple Meads · 6 Nov 2018

trash80 said:
Train staff seem to be the only people i see wearing union badges, it doesn't seem to be something you see in other professions (or maybe not?)

Some bus drivers as well.

Termy · 6 Nov 2018

philthetube said:
LUL trains are wearing their poppies again this year.

Can confirm, so are the TfL staff in the offices. So happy with my pin badges. :3

jon0844 · 6 Nov 2018

Would this be acceptable?

(Image of Jennifer Aniston in Office Space wearing pieces of flair.)

bionic · 6 Nov 2018

Union badges have always been allowed everywhere I've worked. Personally I like to see it.

Poppies and other charity symbols aren't offensive to me: The only offensive thing about poppies are the individuals and organisations who get angry at those who choose not to wear one.

Political party badges though, I can see that causing a bit of an issue. If a member of frontline railway staff was wearing a Conservative party badge i'd want them immediately stood down and tested for drugs and alcohol!

jon0844 · 7 Nov 2018

bionic said:
Poppies and other charity symbols aren't offensive to me: The only offensive thing about poppies are the individuals and organisations who get angry at those who choose not to wear one.

Indeed. It's none of someone else's business what people do or don't wish to wear. Not wearing a poppy doesn't mean people hate servicemen and women, or don't remember previous conflicts. Or are somehow unpatriotic or enemies of the people.

Nor is it an issue if someone wishes to wear a white poppy.

It's quite sick that so many people on social media are quite openly vocal and abusive to people in the media who aren't wearing one. (But then they are on many things now, having been emboldened in recent years to 'say it is as it' and be as rude and offensive as they like).

Some of the abuse is quite horrid, and if you look at the profile of many of these people it doesn't surprise you to find that they're likely talking about immigration and sharing links to the EDL, Britain first and the like.

It's a shame that poppies risk ending up being associated with the England flag that should not have ANY racist or xenophobic connotations at all.

Kneedown · 7 Nov 2018

I must refresh myself on EMT's policy, but I believe that officially, only company issue badges and a union badge are permitted. In practice however, there is a little flexibility.
I personally wear a "Thin Blue Line" pin badge on one lapel, a tie pin version of my awarded medal ribbons on my tie, and a Police "Roll of Honour" pin on the other lapel, although at this time of year I have substituted that for a (red) poppy pin.
As long as the badges are not too OTT or inflammatory in nature a blind eye is generally turned. Certainly i've never been pulled up.

Kneedown · 7 Nov 2018

bionic said:
If a member of frontline railway staff was wearing a Conservative party badge i'd want them immediately stood down and tested for drugs and alcohol!

There would be a good few cancelled trains then. Outside the union careerists, the days of railway staff blindly voting Labour are long gone.

GusB · 7 Nov 2018

bionic said:
Poppies and other charity symbols aren't offensive to me: The only offensive thing about poppies are the individuals and organisations who get angry at those who choose not to wear one.

jon0844 said:
Indeed. It's none of someone else's business what people do or don't wish to wear. Not wearing a poppy doesn't mean people hate servicemen and women, or don't remember previous conflicts. Or are somehow unpatriotic or enemies of the people.

I once had a to-do with a supervisor at work who had a bit of a fit when she realised I wasn't wearing one - only a few moments before the minute's silence. She fizzed the whole time and let rip afterwards, accusing me of being disrespectful and demanding to know why. She fizzed even more when I refused to provide her with a valid reason for not wearing one. "Personal beliefs" was clearly not valid enough.

I really do object to being forced to wear any kind of symbol. I don't think I need to explain that.

philthetube · 7 Nov 2018

142Pilot said:
But they do state trousers. So what you do with your smalls is up to you.

Furthermore the passengers won't know if your commando or not. Yet if you wear a badge it sticks out. .

Makes the eyes water. o_O

Minilad · 7 Nov 2018

I am currently wearing a 15 year membership ASLEF badge on one lapel. A black badge that simply says "Brummie" on the other lapel. My lanyard is a New York Jets one currently but in the past has been New York Mets, Aston Villa, US Air Force, DB, OBB, Wiener Linien, and a few others I have forgotten. I have never been took to task about any.

bionic · 7 Nov 2018

Kneedown said:
There would be a good few cancelled trains then. Outside the union careerists, the days of railway staff blindly voting Labour are long gone.

Without wanting to start a pointless debate about party politics, but to try to answer your comments, what I was specifically alluding to was the Conservative party policy of forcing through DOO, the anti trade union laws (that directly affect railway workers when it comes to organising against such attacks), as well as introducing and completely screwing up the franchise system generally.

For me, the idea of a frontline railway worker supporting a political party that actively attacks their job and industry is a very bizarre one indeed, although I know from experience that many railway workers do indeed vote conservative and that's their personal choice. The same could of course be said of turkeys voting for Christmas.

tiptoptaff · 7 Nov 2018

bionic said:
For me, the idea of a frontline railway worker supporting a political party that actively attacks their job and industry is a very bizarre one indeed, although I know from experience that many railway workers do indeed vote conservative and that's their personal choice. The same could of course be said of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Many Railway staff would be regarded as high earners by a Comrade Corbyn government, so would suffer most from his tax to prosperity policies. Drivers would be regarded as "too well paid" and payrises would stop while the poor nurses and teachers caught up.

Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas....

Uniform policy and political badges

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member