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Greater Anglia "harmonisation" deal for drivers
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Sleepy
Established Member
GA drivers have a "harmonisation" deal on the table which they are currently voting on. If it's a no vote (many strings for £££) will the company want to force the issue and end up in dispute with ASLEF ? New stock appearing very soon and no deal for drivers to operate doors in current non - DOO areas.
Update
GA drivers voted 92% no deal I'm hearing !
Update
GA drivers voted 92% no deal I'm hearing !
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dk1
Veteran Member
Yep that is correct. Actually 92.8% rejecting the deal.
dk1
Veteran Member
Fairly substantial pay rise but over 4 years with Sundays gradually going into the working week. This was all outweighed by altered conditions which to many where wholly unacceptable. After almost 15years of trying to harmonise former Anglia, Great Eastern & WAGN drivers I think perhaps it is now time to give up.
dk1
Veteran Member
All a bit complicated with new trains & door operation for some too. But it wasn't the best of deals for the majority.
Fact is a sizeable number of drivers do not want to work Sundays. Drivers are not a bunch of clones who all want the same thing. Add to that the fact that most people (anywhere) are suspicious of change and it's no easy task to get this in. Anyone know how SE managed it?
tiptoptaff
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Bringing drivers (in this instance, can be any role) under 3 sets of Ts+Cs from previous TOCs, under one, new agreement. GWR have just done it with ex-West and ex-LTV drivers (who were on Wessex and Thames Trains contracts respectively)
Here, it's ex FGE, WAGN and Anglian
Surreytraveller
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Its more than just about the money
I have no doubt it is, what were the terms etc , if you know of course
DarloRich
Veteran Member
basically trying to get everyone in a particular role onto the same contract and T&C's. It can ( and often is) an absolute PITA. I have dealt with such things from both a union and management side and it is often a fools errand trying to reach a deal thanks to the fragmented and TUPED way the railway runs. When it works it is great, especially when you can iron out some unfairness or inequality, but it is a really hard slog at times
Surreytraveller
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Even if harmonisation is reached, you can have the situation in the future at refranchising, a franchise can be carved up and merged with another franchise with different terms and conditions, and you're right back where you started.
Why not?
Is it because they see Sundays as the "day of rest"?
Because they shouldn't. Remember, we're eroding our Christian country heritage so Sundays are just another working day of the week... or should be.
It's un-popular, but I never understand people who want everything.
Drivers aren't going to have a pay rise AND the best conditions, because it appears Drivers can't see it from the company point of view.
Even more un-popular, I'd give an option that the new contracts will come in after 5 years of being agreed. That gives anyone who doesn't want that sort of contract 5 years to find a new job. Harsh yes but no wonder we're in this sort of mess with different terms for different people.
Perhaps give every person in that role a choice of 5 options - very democratic.
The problem is making sure there are fair options that don't heavily favour the staff or the company.
How many industries, sectors, jobs, roles etc actually still work Sundays ? I live near a major retail park. There are still some stores that will not open on Sunday.
theironroad
Established Member
Probably because Saturdays and Sundays are still the two days of the week that the vast majority of working people in this country do not have to work and when many sporting and social activities are organised. knowing that they can have the Sunday off means they can plan to do stuff with other people who are also off.
dctraindriver
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Some of your posts I swear are to just wind others up.
And why should they not want to have a weekend off? Fact is many families want to do something when everyone is off, what has this got to do with eroding Christian heritage?
Who says they want everything? Well done all those who voted against because they saw the bigger picture and know that cash while helpful doesn’t always bring contentment. On the flip side the company can’t see it from the drivers point of view.
Thankfully a bit of common sense has been used.
I don't agree. Traditionally this country was actually a Pagan country until it was conquered by Christians. I do not see why any one religion should claim to have any sort of dominance over any other in this country. Most people have no allegiance to any particular religion.
I definitely have no allegiance to any religion. Sundays are not a matter of religion for me, but I understand why some employees across a number of industries like to have one specific day a week off so that they know that they can be with their families or plan social activities with others.
Working on a Sunday never bothered me, but I know that I'm not representative of everyone, and that religion is important to some.
Working on a Sunday never bothered me, but I know that I'm not representative of everyone, and that religion is important to some.
It's harsh, but if you want to have Sundays off don't work for a seven day a week service industry. I fully accept that staff should get something in return for the current system, and not knowing exactly what was on offer here I make no comment regarding the decision to reject it, but it's ridiculous that weekend services should continue to be dependent on people coming in on their day off.
But this is the thing though, it’s all well and good saying “If they want sundays off they should apply for a job that doesnt include sundays”. But they did just that? They didn’t want to work sundays so they applied for the job they are doing now where it was clearly stated in their interviews and contracts that sundays are optional.
It's a funny one for me. I work shifts and work 2 weekends out of 5. I actually quite enjoy having some time off during the week and have been known to treat them a bit like a weekend! It's purely how you see the weekend. For a career railwayperson, weekends are just another day of the week with most rosters taking in a Saturday or Sunday whether that be part of the working week or guaranteed overtime to cover the Sunday. On the flip side, management are normally Monday-Friday so probably see their weekends as sacred. On the wider scale, we are still a Monday - Friday society. Don't get me wrong, lots of people work Saturdays and Sundays, particularly in retail, hospitality and healthcare but most people I would argue, see the weekend as days they should be off enjoying. As for religion, I feel personally that this has absolutely miniscule bearing in today's Britain. Like it or not, we are a 24/7 Country and a great majority of careers are now reflecting this. Another argument you could add is the 9-5 working day which creates the madness we call rush hour or peak. 2 to 3 hours of carnage for passengers and train operators, twice a day that causes people unnecessary stress, anger and anguish. It really is time for a rethink. There are companies who have signed up to a flexible working idea who have lauded on how good it is for both employee wellbeing and company productivity. Done correctly then it's a win win. Happy employees equal productive work places. Staggered start times, flexible working from either home or office and personalised leave can all contribute to a more calmer society and let's face it, I'm sure the rail companies running around with empty trains between 10 and 2 would rather have well loaded trains all day.
wouldn't it make life so much easier if the 0900 to 1700 workers, actually went to maybe 0600 to 2200 or 2300 ? the morning rush would almost vanish and the load spread over the day, would also make trying to get hold of someone in an office that much easier too !
as many have said we are now a 24/7 Country, so lets embrace it
as many have said we are now a 24/7 Country, so lets embrace it
ForTheLoveOf
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I can see both sides. People signed up when they were promised that Sunday was not a part of the working week. Now it is proposed that it is part of the working week.
On the other hand, I am sure the railways have been operating 7 days a week just about since their inception around 200 years ago. If anyone joins the rail industry - or any other transport industry for that matter - IMO they should be prepared for the possibility of having to work unsociable hours, regardless of their role.
I think that mandatory introduction of Sunday in the working week, over a long time period (say 2 or 3 years) would be a fair resolution. For those who aren't willing to accept that change, no one can seriously claim they can't find another job in 2 or 3 years, even if they've worked in the rail industry all their life.
Changes to working conditions are simply part and parcel of the modern economy in my view. To be honest, if I were a driver I'd be happy my job hadn't been automated out of existence by now. People who aren't willing to accept gradual changes that are necessary and reasonable, don't fit in today's economy. That is a distinctly last-century attitude.
Of course, with the rail unions being in the unique position they are - with drivers being difficult, slow and expensive to replace, widespread union participation, and an industry that the Government would never let fail - common sense takes a back seat to say the least. Good, perhaps, for the members, but very bad for the reputation of unions as a concept, and very bad news for everyone else other than the members.
On the other hand, I am sure the railways have been operating 7 days a week just about since their inception around 200 years ago. If anyone joins the rail industry - or any other transport industry for that matter - IMO they should be prepared for the possibility of having to work unsociable hours, regardless of their role.
I think that mandatory introduction of Sunday in the working week, over a long time period (say 2 or 3 years) would be a fair resolution. For those who aren't willing to accept that change, no one can seriously claim they can't find another job in 2 or 3 years, even if they've worked in the rail industry all their life.
Changes to working conditions are simply part and parcel of the modern economy in my view. To be honest, if I were a driver I'd be happy my job hadn't been automated out of existence by now. People who aren't willing to accept gradual changes that are necessary and reasonable, don't fit in today's economy. That is a distinctly last-century attitude.
Of course, with the rail unions being in the unique position they are - with drivers being difficult, slow and expensive to replace, widespread union participation, and an industry that the Government would never let fail - common sense takes a back seat to say the least. Good, perhaps, for the members, but very bad for the reputation of unions as a concept, and very bad news for everyone else other than the members.
Iskra
Established Member
Not wanting to work Sundays has very little to do with religion for most people. It's got a lot more to do with being able to enjoy yourself a lot more on a Saturday night, without having to worry about the effects the next day. This is a particular problem for train drivers who can be screened for alcohol in their system!
As much as I think I like to stick up for all grades in the railway, I have to agree with you here. Drivers and Guards at my TOC are not rostered Sundays for the working week but other grades are. They should be rostered on a Sunday if only to improve the woefull Sunday service we have in the Highlands and the only way to do it is to phase it in. Anybody who wants to relinquish a £50,000 a year job to have Sunday off are free to look for another job after a period of time.
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