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Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

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theblackwatch

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The introduction of the electric buses, which seem to be a 'white elephant', has been a complete farce. The new timetable to cater for these was introduced in July - now, nearly 4 months later, it appears 1 or 2 (out of 8 that were ordered, 4 of which I don't think have arrived yet) come out of Starbeck each day and do a couple of trips before heading back before they run out of juice. Because this is all they seem to do, I don't think the generator is normally used - it's probably there just in case one of the buses gets delayed in one of Harrogate's many traffic queues and hasn't enough 'juice' left. The other thing they seem to do is get used for each week is Transdev's publicity shoots.

I do think the reporter who wrote the piece about them missed finding out a highly important point - what is this ""red-tape infrastructure issue" that Keith Roebuck refers to? I've heard a couple of rumours - one that there is an argument over who pays for the electricity used, and another that the cabling has been put in isn't up to the job. I have no idea if one of these is correct or it is something else.

It is interesting to see the different ways the two companies in Harrogate go for publicity. Looking at Facebook, Transdev use it to shout about themselves and encourage passengers, whereas Connexions use it to post about the diesel generator in Harrogate Bus station!
 
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Deerfold

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AJW12 said:
Someone said it before, it looks like someone on here is employed by them to jump in as soon as anything critical is mentioned to defend them.
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Or possibly this forum has lots of people on it with different views and opinions. I doubt Transdev would bother paying anyone to post on a forum like this - although pretty popular with bus "hobbyists", I doubt many average passengers are likely to read it.
 
Alexbus12

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Deerfold said:
Or possibly this forum has lots of people on it with different views and opinions. I doubt Transdev would bother paying anyone to post on a forum like this - although pretty popular with bus "hobbyists", I doubt many average passengers are likely to read it.
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Someone needs lessons in sarcasm...
 
TheGrandWazoo

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Deerfold said:
Perhaps I've been reading too much twitter recently, where such conspiracy theories are all too common.
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Yeah - I imagine Alex Hornby is the mastermind behind Fancy Bears, and has been hacking the Conn Twitter feed to make them look bad :rolleyes: Can't be any other logical explanation....

Mitchell and Webb did some superb sketches on conspiracy theories :lol:
 
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carlberry

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TheGrandWazoo said:
Yeah - I imagine Alex Hornby is the mastermind behind Fancy Bears, and has been hacking the Conn Twitter feed to make them look bad :rolleyes: Can't be any other logical explanation....

Mitchell and Webb did some superb sketches on conspiracy theories :lol:
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All these conspiracy theories are put about by the evil empire to distract everybody from their conspiracy for the mice to take over the planet!
 
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SCH117X

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theblackwatch said:
The introduction of the electric buses, which seem to be a 'white elephant', has been a complete farce. The new timetable to cater for these was introduced in July - now, nearly 4 months later, it appears 1 or 2 (out of 8 that were ordered, 4 of which I don't think have arrived yet) come out of Starbeck each day and do a couple of trips before heading back before they run out of juice. Because this is all they seem to do, I don't think the generator is normally used - it's probably there just in case one of the buses gets delayed in one of Harrogate's many traffic queues and hasn't enough 'juice' left. The other thing they seem to do is get used for each week is Transdev's publicity shoots.
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The other 4 have arrived - one was parked in the bus station on Tuesday evening, the arrival was delayed such that they have 68 reg plates, BN68XSA -XSD (fleet nos 805-808) Photos on flickr of
806 https://www.flickr.com/photos/124436873@N03/31909936288/
807 https://www.flickr.com/photos/124436873@N03/45781430721/
 
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theblackwatch

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SCH117X

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SCH117X

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Article in the Harrogate Advertiser www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/news/transport/harrogate-s-cutting-edge-electric-bus-fleet-powered-by-diesel-generator-1-9433065
- not sure how 8 electric buses takes 10 diesel buses off the road
- surprised that the generator is only a temporary measure, what is going to happen when there is a power cut - sorry, no local services.
Harrogate’s “trailblazing” fleet of electric buses is currently being powered by a diesel generator as the company struggles with infrastructure issues during the rollout of the ambitious upgrade. The Harrogate Bus Company unveiled their fleet of eight electric buses in July, announcing a five year vision of making Harrogate a low emission bus town. Funding for the fleet came in the form of a £2.25 million grant from the Government’s Low Emission Bus Scheme, with the company chipping in £1.7 million itself.

However, more than three months later, the fleet is being charged by a low-emission diesel generator at their Station Parade base. In a statement, general manager for The Harrogate Bus Company Keith Roebuck said the generator was a “short term interim measure” for use while the company worked through a “red-tape infrastructure issue”. Mr Roebuck conceded it was not the “ideal scenario”, but said they were working towards a permanent solution. “We were expecting to come up against challenges, as inevitably we would as trailblazers of brand new technology,” Mr Roebuck said “We’re working hard to resolve the red-tape infrastructure issue which is preventing us from using the electric chargers as we had planned. “Once we have resolved the issue, the chargers will be fuelled by a renewable energy contract ensuring that the buses are truly zero emission. “As a short term interim measure we have installed a low-emission generator to enable us to put our 100 per cent electric buses on local services, taking 10 diesel buses off the road. “It’s not the ideal scenario, but a plan B whilst we’re working hard to make plan A work.

With one engine replacing ten, Harrogate is greener for it, but will be even greener once the work is completed.” A Northern Powergrid spokeswoman confirmed the power company would be able to supply the required capacity to power the fleet from the three charging masts at the bus station. “We’ve worked closely with The Harrogate Bus Company, their chosen independent connection provider and independent distribution network operator to make available a connection and the required capacity to help transform Harrogate into Britain’s first low emission bus town,” the spokeswoman said.
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Andyh82

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Basically the same article as what was on the BBC, they’ve probably copied it. That’s how local journalism works these days.

How do other operators who run electric buses deal with power cuts? Cancel all services?
 
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SCH117X

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All other electric buses are charged out of service at specific locations, presumably they have back up generators? The key difference with the eight Volvos at Harrogate is that they can charge whilst loading/unloading - they do have charging facilities at the depot.
 
96tommy

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JP78 said:
Goodness the Transdev fans are rife on here aren't they - defending the company on every occasion! You should check out if they're hiring a new PR person....
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Yep thats how I see this forum too, very pro Transdev comapred to Connexions which often leads to an unbalanced view when it comes to discussing Transdev v Connexions. I have been inactive on this forum for a while and just read the report from #882 I have to say it doesn't really surprise me at all. I know Coastliner has had new buses and all that but Harrogate is where all the big investment seems to have been made... and electric buses being charged by an diesel generator! Imagine if that was Connexions the uproar on here would be unreal but with it being the "amazing" Transdev they seem to get off with it.............
 
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Presumably the comment about taking ten diesel buses off the road is linked to the two electric Solos that have been refurbished for use on the 24 upto Pateley Bridge, with the timetable suitably amended to take account of their operating range presumably.
 
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SCH117X

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What would be the alternative be? Press articles on state of the art buses not being used. Pretty no win situation for Transdev.

I would be not surprised if the issue is that a new power cable needs to laid and which requires agreement of the local highway authority for the requisite road works, and which no doubt are not classed as being urgent - IME through work it takes NYCC 6 months at least to agree anything that is not urgent in their opinion. On that basis it could be some time before the charging points are powered correctly. In the meantime Transdevs plans for its fleet presumably cannot be put on hold indefinitely and the point has presumably arisen where they had to find some way of using the electrics.

What would be interesting to know is how far x litres of diesel used by the generator consequently powers the electrics in comparison to distance covered by a Versa consuming the same amount of diesel.
 
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Stan Drews

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SCH117X said:
I see the sensibility of postings on here has taken a downward turn this morning due to the return of one poster, is not coverage by the BBC and local press enough and what would be the alternative be - press articles on state of the art buses not being used. Pretty no win situation for Transdev.

I would be not surprised if the issue is that a new power cable needs to laid and which requires agreement of the local highway authority for the requisite road works, and which no doubt are not classed as being urgent - IME through work it takes NYCC 6 months at least to agree anything that is not urgent in their opinion. On that basis it could be some time before the charging points are powered correctly. In the meantime Transdevs plans for its fleet presumably cannot be put on hold indefinitely and the point has presumably arisen where they had to find some way of using the electrics.

What would be interesting to know is how far x litres of diesel used by the generator consequently powers the electrics in comparison to distance covered by a Versa consuming the same amount of diesel.
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The infrastructure work was completed some time ago, the ‘red tape’ issues relate to commissioning the equipment, and I believe the most frustrated people are the Transdev management!

It’s common to read negative comments from rival staff and ex employees all over the country, but I’ve never known such a polarised divide, as the one that appears to exist over Transdev/Connexions. I have no idea why some people on either side of the divide seem to wallow in deriding the ‘opposition’ so much, however as they are quite easy to spot I tend to just ignore their drivel.
 
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Andyh82

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Very few operators conduct themselves on social media like Connexions do to whip it all up.
 
Alexbus12

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Andyh82 said:
Very few operators conduct themselves on social media like Connexions do to whip it all up.
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At least they respond to customers, and their complains. Unlike the Gods in Harrogate who block you if you question why a service didn't run
 
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Andyh82

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By that you mean they blocked you I presume, rather than all customers
 
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SCH117X

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Probably blocked due to the tone of the complaint rather than the complaint itself. "No bus turned up at xxxx ?" should not get blocked. "Why the ****** bus did not ********* arrive" will result in someone being blocked. For some reason some people think using twitter etc excuses them from common courtesy and I know a number of twitterites have been blocked by my workplace due to the tone of the message; someone has to read the message and is entitled to not feel abused or insulted by the tone of the language used; if someone phoned up and spoke in such a manner the person taking the call would be perfectly entitled to put the phone down - cannot do that with social media messages.
 
Alexbus12

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SCH117X said:
Probably blocked due to the tone of the complaint rather than the complaint itself. "No bus turned up at xxxx ?" should not get blocked. "Why the ****** bus did not ********* arrive" will result in someone being blocked. For some reason some people think using twitter etc excuses them from common courtesy and I know a number of twitterites have been blocked by my workplace due to the tone of the message; someone has to read the message and is entitled to not feel abused or insulted by the tone of the language used; if someone phoned up and spoke in such a manner the person taking the call would be perfectly entitled to put the phone down - cannot do that with social media messages.
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Bit of an accusation. No i didn't swear, nor did those who were blocked. They didn't like that because it was on numerous occasions when services weren't running and I was complaining. Just shows that they are an 'Amazing' company doesn't it.
 
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SCH117X said:
I see the sensibility of postings on here has taken a downward turn this morning due to the return of one poster, is not coverage by the BBC and local press enough and what would be the alternative be - press articles on state of the art buses not being used. Pretty no win situation for Transdev.

I would be not surprised if the issue is that a new power cable needs to laid and which requires agreement of the local highway authority for the requisite road works, and which no doubt are not classed as being urgent - IME through work it takes NYCC 6 months at least to agree anything that is not urgent in their opinion. On that basis it could be some time before the charging points are powered correctly. In the meantime Transdevs plans for its fleet presumably cannot be put on hold indefinitely and the point has presumably arisen where they had to find some way of using the electrics.

What would be interesting to know is how far x litres of diesel used by the generator consequently powers the electrics in comparison to distance covered by a Versa consuming the same amount of diesel.
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At the end if the day this is poor project management.
The quote from Northern Powergrid appears to indicate that they do not consider themselves responsible so it's either the Contractors or the Project Management Team, as they are willing to supply the power.

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co....s-fleet-powered-by-diesel-generator-1-9433065
You do not start the installation if you do not know where the power is coming from.

The Local MP is very happy, according to his newsletter delivered this week, but we are fully aware that he is a avid supporter of Transdev from previous press releases.
 
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SCH117X

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Apologies to Alexbus 12, although what can be taken as an offensive message does not necessarily have to one with swear words. Looking at the twitter feed their seem to late running issues with 24 being raised which seems strange given the rather lengthy lay over at Harrogate that the new timetable has brought in.

Poor project management as Swimbar states is unfortunately something that construction projects suffer from a daily basis. In my job I too often find x not realising y would take z times longer than they thought, usually due to NYCC as I hinted in an earlier posting.

I've noticed another thing that will no doubt be annoying Transdevs management; where NYCC have resurfaced roads they have replaced Transdev bus stop signs with their own. On the other hand it would be nice if someone could get some new signs and replace the way out of date ones on Wetherby Road which still date back to when the 771 was a 770 running via Thorpe Arch; was expecting them to have changed to an Amazing 7 sign.
EDIT - Just noticed the brand new Harrogate Electrics sign opposite Asda has been replaced by NYCC with their own - looks very odd with Transdevs circular electric flash atop the post. A pretty poor use of tax payers money by NYCC.
 
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SCH117X

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NYCC have announced they are to work the X70 (Wetherby-Tadcaster), 780 and fill in missing workings on 412
"ConnexionsBuses Wetherby area services 77, 412 and 780
From Monday 26 November 2018 ConnexionsBuses have said that they can no longer operate some services in the Wetherby area. Arrangements have been made for NYCC Fleet Services to operate most of these services from that date.

The services affected are:
https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/bus-service-changes-and-news

Timings are for one vehicle starting and ending at York (Mon-Fri), Wetherby (Sat). The 780 is timed at Knaresborough High Street not Bus Station but with a 2 minute turn round
 
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theblackwatch

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Those timings don't allow much leeway for late running! I suspected they might be going to take on some of these services as the driver on the 492/493/494 which I travelled on last Saturday was from the NYCC office at Selby and said he was expecting to be getting some paperwork on his desk to look at regarding these. It's a shame that the 07.20/16.50 will no longer run as these are the only buses between Tadcaster and Thorp Arch Trading Estate - I think this now means it is virtually impossible to travel between these two places if you work there, quite shocking considering the Estate contains some of the area's major employers.
 
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Transdev are doing half price daytrippers on their Transdev Go app on Black Friday

"We've got our own range of very special Black Friday deals, available to buy exclusively through the Transdev Go app. Our whole range of Daytripper tickets will be half price when you buy through Transdev Go between 9am and 5pm on Black Friday.

Yes, that's 50% off our entire range of Daytripper tickets. You'll be able to buy through the app on Black Friday at the discounted rate, store and use these tickets when you need them.

Download on the App Store and Google Play store and get ready to bag yourself some bargains!

Daytripper normal price £10
Black Friday price just £5

Travel on most Transdev buses in Yorkshire and Lancashire, as many times as you like, all day long. You'll need a Daytripper plus if you're travelling on Coastliner or Cityzap

Daytripper plus normal price £17
Black Friday price just £8.50

A day's travel on Transdev bus in Yorkshire and Lancashire, including on Coastliner all the way to the east coast and Cityzap!

Daytripper group normal price £19
Black Friday price just £9.50

An absolute steal! A Daytripper for up to five adults

Daytripper plus group normal price £30
Black Friday price just £15

Any five people can ride all day on any Transdev bus in Yorkshire and Lancashire"
http://www.yorkbus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2521

Noticed what to me was a new variation to the flexible routing of the 36 from Leeds in Harrogate today - rather than the normal alternative route of east along York Place from Prince of Wales Roundabout to then follow the 22 route to the bus station they were continuing north from the roundabout and then turning east to run past the library, across Station Parade and cutting through to the 22 route near the Odean Roundabout - a route previously taken during cycle race road closures but a number of parking spaces were at that time coned off unlike today.
 
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theblackwatch said:
Those timings don't allow much leeway for late running! I suspected they might be going to take on some of these services as the driver on the 492/493/494 which I travelled on last Saturday was from the NYCC office at Selby and said he was expecting to be getting some paperwork on his desk to look at regarding these. It's a shame that the 07.20/16.50 will no longer run as these are the only buses between Tadcaster and Thorp Arch Trading Estate - I think this now means it is virtually impossible to travel between these two places if you work there, quite shocking considering the Estate contains some of the area's major employers.
Click to expand...

Presumably taken off because of the large number of passengers using them?
 
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Would have thought that the Harrogate Christmas Market, Free Shuttle service, would have been an ideal opportunity for Transdev to triumph their Electric Buses by using one on this service.
However the couple of times I have visited the Market a Diesel powered Solo has been provided!
 
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