TRIVIA - Places where the mainline is slower than an alternative route

Intercity 225 · 11 Nov 2018

Hi,

Following on from my thread about a month ago where it was established that the Erewash Valley Line is still 3.5 minutes faster than the Midland Mainline despite recent improvements to the latter it got me thinking where else on the network can similar “shortcuts” be found?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nline-between-it’s-destination-points.171889/

I fully appreciate that the term “mainline” and what can be classed as an “alternative route” can be subjective so let’s use the following criteria:

1. The mainline is classed as the route taken by most passenger services

2. An alternative route must deviate from the mainline but then rejoin it at another point

3. The land in between the two routes cannot wholly be railway property

4. If an alternative route is shorter but slower it doesn’t count unless you think the line speed could be increased in order for it to qualify

And finally, for the purpose of this question, let’s assume the train is running non-stop at maximum line speed.

Have fun!

RailUK Forums

bionic · 11 Nov 2018

Using point 1 as the route taken by most passenger services, then Stafford to Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke and Macclesfield is the "mainline", with regular XC services throughout the day... however the "alternative route" available via Crewe and Wilmslow is quicker. Some would be right to argue that via Crewe and Wilmslow is really the "mainline" but it meets the criteria outlined above.

Ianno87 · 11 Nov 2018

Historically - Cambridge to Liverpool Street is the main line, but Cambridge to King's Cross is faster.

yorksrob · 11 Nov 2018

Ashford to Charing Cross via Tonbridge is the mainline, however HS1 gets to London a little bit quicker.

HowardGWR · 11 Nov 2018

Taunton to Reading is quicker via Badminton than via Westbury,.

D6975 · 11 Nov 2018

Ianno87 said:
Historically - Cambridge to Liverpool Street is the main line, but Cambridge to King's Cross is faster.

Fails to meet criterion #2

mrcheek · 11 Nov 2018

HowardGWR said:
Taunton to Reading is quicker via Badminton than via Westbury,.

also, Bristol Temple Meads to Swindon is quicker when diverted via Badminton than when using the standard route through Bath and Chippenham. Diversions on this route due to engineering works are fairly common, as is the subsequent timetabled wait at Swindon

Bayum · 11 Nov 2018

Would ECML vs MML be one?

D6975 · 11 Nov 2018

yorksrob said:
Ashford to Charing Cross via Tonbridge is the mainline, however HS1 gets to London a little bit quicker.

Again, fails to meet criterion #2.

D6975 · 11 Nov 2018

Bayum said:
Would ECML vs MML be one?

No, on two counts. They are both main lines and yet again, fails to meet criterion #2.

yorksrob · 11 Nov 2018

D6975 said:
Again, fails to meet criterion #2.

To be fair, they both end up in London.

D6975 · 11 Nov 2018

mrcheek said:
also, Bristol Temple Meads to Swindon is quicker when diverted via Badminton than when using the standard route through Bath and Chippenham. Diversions on this route due to engineering works are fairly common, as is the subsequent timetabled wait at Swindon

At last a real one (also applies to points west - Howard GWR))
Even this won't qualify before too long as far as TM is concerned. Once the TM via Parkway half hourly starts up, trains to Bristol will be a roughly 50:50 split between the two routes, thus failing to meet criterion #1.

D6975 · 11 Nov 2018

In the summer time, there's a service to Fishguard that goes via the Swansea district line, missing out Swansea. It therefore offers journeys to/from stations west of Swansea quicker than the mainline. Some, might however argue that the SDL used to be a mainline too.

LNW-GW Joint · 11 Nov 2018

Sheffield-York is complicated.
The original North Midland/York & North Midland ran via Normanton (63 miles), but is out of use today as a through route.
The alternative and most direct current route, the joint line via Pontefract Baghill at 46 miles, is now little used.
Most trains take one of the longer routes via Wakefield Westgate and Leeds (63 miles), or via Doncaster (52 miles).
Other variations can be devised, thanks to the legacy of the Midland, L&Y, GC, GN and NER in the South Yorks area.
HS2 will only add to the complications!

alangla · 11 Nov 2018

If you wanted to go from Doncaster or Leeds to Chesterfield, would the Old Road be quicker than going into Sheffield?

agbrs_Jack · 11 Nov 2018

bionic said:
Using point 1 as the route taken by most passenger services, then Stafford to Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke and Macclesfield is the "mainline", with regular XC services throughout the day... however the "alternative route" available via Crewe and Wilmslow is quicker. Some would be right to argue that via Crewe and Wilmslow is really the "mainline" but it meets the criteria outlined above.

Is it quicker via Crewe?
It's shorter via Stoke in terms of distance.
Both these services take 60 minutes Stafford - Manchester, however the first one has more stops.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76425/2018/11/15/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76429/2018/11/15/advanced

bionic · 11 Nov 2018

It's close but I think via Crewe just nicks it. These are both Virgin pendos leaving Picc at a similar time. 52 mins via Crewe, and 55 mins via Stoke... both stopping twice after Stockport - the Crewe one booked an extra minute of dwell time. It's also slower line speed for stopping at Crewe. The Stoke one has a 9 headcode too.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70742/2018/11/13/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73051/2018/11/13/advanced

xotGD · 11 Nov 2018

Stalybridge to Man Pic. The 'main line' is now via Man Vic, but it is quicker to go via Guide Bridge.

TBY-Paul · 11 Nov 2018

Middlesbrough to Newcastle via the Stillington line? It's quicker than going via Hartlepool or Darlington. It was rumoured that a new "Northern connect" service will go via Stillington, but it seams to have gone quiet on that front.
<cynic mode>
Like most ideas that involve the North-east, they get proposed to win favour, but then get quietly dropped when nobody is looking.
e.g HS2 stage 3 Swillington to Newcastle.
,end cynic mode>

DanTrain · 11 Nov 2018

I think Chinley to Manchester Piccadilly is marginally quicker via Romily than via Stockport even though the ‘main line’ that the fast trains take is via Stockport. Not a lot in it though...

TrainTube · 11 Nov 2018

Very difficult considering the criteria. I know its on the same line but there's a bit between Earlsfield and Clapham Junction where trains on the slow line go faster than the fast line.

JamesRowden · 11 Nov 2018

Littlehampton to London Victoria is faster via Horsham than via Haywards Heath.

JamesRowden · 11 Nov 2018

Hastings to East Croydon is faster via Edenbridge than via Eastbourne.

JamesRowden · 11 Nov 2018

Ashford to London Victoria is faster via Orpington than via Maidstone East.

matacaster · 11 Nov 2018

Leeds to Carlisle
TPE via Manchester and Preston
vs
northern S&C (despite ridiculous speed restrictions on excellent infrastructure - apart from signalling)

61653 HTAFC · 11 Nov 2018

Huddersfield to Sheffield can be quicker going via Leeds or Wakefield than direct, but the only way it can meet criterion ii is if the Sheffield train leaves HUD from platform 4a and the Leeds from 4b. This obviously prevents them leaving simultaneously!

squizzler · 12 Nov 2018

Swansea District Line between Port Talbot and southwest Wales (probably) or to Heart of Wales route (definitely) faster than via Swansea proper.

53703 · 12 Nov 2018

Piccadilly to Victoria/Altrincham on Metrolink and then possibly on a Saturday Manchester to Eccles/Ashton/Rochdale/East Didsbury?

Y Ddraig Coch · 12 Nov 2018

Llandudno to Manchester Airport can take the same time even when changing at Chester and waiting up to 15 minutes and changing at Crewe and waiting up to half an hour.

Basically 45 minutes actual travelling time quicker although the journey takes the same amount of time due to waiting at Chester and Crewe.

Tintinabukent · 15 Nov 2018

yorksrob said:
Ashford to Charing Cross via Tonbridge is the mainline, however HS1 gets to London a little bit quicker.

Assuming Fawkham Junction could be used, which I'm not sure about, Ashford to Charing Cross via HS1, Fawkham Jn., St Mary Cray, Chislehurst would perhaps be marginally quicker than a non-stop train via Tonbridge. Probably only by about 5 minutes, if that.

TRIVIA - Places where the mainline is slower than an alternative route

Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member