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Scotrail studded/textured yellow line on platforms, instead of tactiles.

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pt_mad

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Has anyone noticed that at many Scotrail stations, instead of traditional textured 'tactile' stones near the platform edges, the yellow line itself is studded.

It doubles up as both the yellow line and the textured surface to act as a warning that you are getting close to the edge.

On the face of it, looks a great method of providing the textured warning surface without having to dig up platforms and lay stones/tilles.

Why isn't this used in England and Wales too? Are there any downsides?

Presumably there's the benefit of no tiles lifting up in hot or cold weather, as the textured surface is just the line itself.

Looks smart too.
 
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Tio Terry

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Do you have a picture of what you are talking about? It would make it easier to make sensible comment on what you are describing.
 

snowball

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I haven't seen it but it sounds like it could be like the ribbed edge line ("rumble strip") used on motorways and some other major roads.
 

pt_mad

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Yep. That's exactly it.

Excellent way of achieving both a yellow line and tactile textured effect for accessibility in one, with no slabs needed and slabs moving and moving up at the edges in extreme temperatures.

Doesn't seem like this has spread to anywhere in England or Wales? Wonder why? Is it not a Network Rail innovation?
 

AMD

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I can't remember the proper word for the process, but a number of years ago there was a problem with the tactile slabs lifting in very cold/ icy weather. I'm not sure if it was because the tactile slabs were made from a different material from the platform slabs or just that they're smaller and easier to lift naturally, but someone decided that studs would be the way forward.
 

skyhigh

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Doesn't seem like this has spread to anywhere in England or Wales? Wonder why? Is it not a Network Rail innovation?
I was almost certain I'd seen these somewhere in England - and after a little searching it turns out I was right! They're in place at Wakefield Westgate.
4272111_e30fdd47_1024x1024.jpg

Image from https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4272111 - © Copyright Nigel Thompson
 

takno

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Had anyone got a picture of the tactile slabs? I'm sure it'll be obvious when I see but I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by them
 
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Had anyone got a picture of the tactile slabs? I'm sure it'll be obvious when I see but I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by them
Effectively the kind that are at every pedestrian crossing in most (major crossings?) in towns and cities.
 

Tio Terry

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What has been described as a yellow line and textured surface is not acceptable in terms of informing a visually disabled person of what hazard is close by and does not meet the Equal Opportunities Act requirements, the PRM TSI or the DfT Accessible Stations Guide.

Tactile paving comes in two forms. Those with a pattern of studs formed in squares are intended to inform the user that there is a lowered edge ahead - as per those at pedestrian crossings - and that it is safe to proceed. Those arranged in a diamond pattern are used to inform the user that there is a platform edge or significant drop ahead which is dangerous. A simple textured surface tells the user nothing at all.

All the tactile paving in Waterloo International had to be changed when the station was converted to domestic use. The original ones where "safe to proceed" patterned because passengers were never allowed on the platforms unless there was a train present. That, of course, is not the case with a domestic train service.
 

InOban

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There is a wide range of these tactile patterns (see Wikipedia), although it's possible only a few are to be found in the railway environment.
 

swt_passenger

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Had anyone got a picture of the tactile slabs? I'm sure it'll be obvious when I see but I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by them
For new construction they do a combined coping and tactile slab, already coloured. If retrofitting tactiles against a good quality edge they’ll just use tactile slabs. Horses for courses I guess, glueing the dimples onto asphalt or drilling pins have their place but won’t necessarily be the general solution. A random manufacturer’s brochure shows some of the options: https://fpmccann.co.uk/sites/default/files/Website Brochures Lo-Res/Rail_solutions_210818_web.pdf
 

TBY-Paul

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InOban

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When I tap the picture, it opens in a new window. If I then hold it gives me a range of options (eg save to device) including the file name (Android).
 

pt_mad

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What has been described as a yellow line and textured surface is not acceptable in terms of informing a visually disabled person of what hazard is close by and does not meet the Equal Opportunities Act requirements, the PRM TSI or the DfT Accessible Stations Guide.

Tactile paving comes in two forms. Those with a pattern of studs formed in squares are intended to inform the user that there is a lowered edge ahead - as per those at pedestrian crossings - and that it is safe to proceed. Those arranged in a diamond pattern are used to inform the user that there is a platform edge or significant drop ahead which is dangerous. A simple textured surface tells the user nothing at all.

All the tactile paving in Waterloo International had to be changed when the station was converted to domestic use. The original ones where "safe to proceed" patterned because passengers were never allowed on the platforms unless there was a train present. That, of course, is not the case with a domestic train service.

Presumably the image shown in post #4 must show a compliant version of the studded line? Otherwise it wouldn't be in use?

Hadn't realised the new fit in England was a tactile-coper combined slab. Suppose you wouldn't necessarily realise it when you saw it, as they may appear like two seperate slabs.

Maybe the studded line will spread as and when platforms are resurfaced across England as well as Scotland, given someone said Durham now has that arrangement.
 

Tio Terry

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Presumably the image shown in post #4 must show a compliant version of the studded line? Otherwise it wouldn't be in use?

Hadn't realised the new fit in England was a tactile-coper combined slab. Suppose you wouldn't necessarily realise it when you saw it, as they may appear like two seperate slabs.

Maybe the studded line will spread as and when platforms are resurfaced across England as well as Scotland, given someone said Durham now has that arrangement.

At the time of my post I had not seen the picture and the description by snowball about it being like a motorway rumble strip led me to believe it was not a recognised tactile paving pattern. Clearly it is.

Various attempts have been made to provide the tactile requirement without the need to dig up platforms and install new slabs. Some have been successful, others have not. Expansion of the stick on pads has failed in some cases, problem put down to poor installation without expansion gaps for hot weather, some types of glue fail in low temperatures leading to stuck down pads lifting. I'm sure there must be a way of providing tactile without the costs associated with re-engineering the platform.
 

neontrix

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I always thought that the tactile-tiles had two functions - a tactile warning detectable by long cane or underfoot, as well as a large contrasting band of colour visible to people with low vision, who might not be able to discern the edge of the platform, even with the thinner white line. While they're quite bright, these studs don't seem to provide such a good level of contrast as a tile where the whole tile is coloured.
 

pt_mad

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At the time of my post I had not seen the picture and the description by snowball about it being like a motorway rumble strip led me to believe it was not a recognised tactile paving pattern. Clearly it is.

Various attempts have been made to provide the tactile requirement without the need to dig up platforms and install new slabs. Some have been successful, others have not. Expansion of the stick on pads has failed in some cases, problem put down to poor installation without expansion gaps for hot weather, some types of glue fail in low temperatures leading to stuck down pads lifting. I'm sure there must be a way of providing tactile without the costs associated with re-engineering the platform.

Are the studs in the photo shown in post #4 likely to be stick on, or screw in type?
 

_toommm_

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It's also used on Platform 12 at Edinburgh Waverley, and I believe it will be used on the new bays under construction too.
 
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