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West Lothian buses

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smtglasgow

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What Lothian have done in East Lothian is hugely impressive. But the East Lothian network is focused on Edinburgh and they have the benefit of a hopelessly overcrowded rail line and the parking nightmare in Edinburgh itself. They also serve areas well away from any railway stations (Haddington, Pencaitland, the coast route out to North Berwick), so are the sole provider of public transport in these areas. They deserve a lot of credit for investing and boosting numbers, but it doesn’t tell us much about how they’ll do in West Lothian. After all, the most important aspect of East Lothian is that First sold up and left the scene…
 
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Darklord8899

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....East Lothian and West Lothian are 2 completely different beasts.... I'd be very surprised if LCB manage what ECB have....
 

Driver362

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How long did it take to turn East coast round ? Versus how long Lothian country in its current form have had ,I agree they are two different places and scenarios ,but will reserve judgment till into next year the only barometer I can use is what I see coming through the door , yes it could be busier ,but is also not as bad as some would suggest
 

In Focus

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How long did it take to turn East coast round ? Versus how long Lothian country in its current form have had ,I agree they are two different places and scenarios ,but will reserve judgment till into next year the only barometer I can use is what I see coming through the door , yes it could be busier ,but is also not as bad as some would suggest
You can really reserve it until anytime , truth is only 1 company either LCB is First will be in West Lothian by the start of 2020 , that's is a certainty of business , way too many buses ,way too few passengers.
If LCB go ahead with Newbridge depot and stretch to phase 6 you will know they are in it for long term, if First flood Livingston with buses and can get enough drivers to take it to Lothian in Edinburgh and take on the Airport service then it could get interesting. Both scenarios I must add are just me playing devils advocate but the one certainty is both won't last in the present situation.
 

route101

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Tried out some Lothian Country buses today . Blackridge to Bathgate on 280 , was an 11 plate Gemini hybrid i think , more spartan inside and white .Bus picked up a good load eventually.
Took 287 from Bathgate to Livingston , only i got on and only 2 people to Blackburn , load was a bit lower . Wester inch is a strange place , road is windy in a new development. LXI decker
Then took 275 from Livi to the Gyle , so so load to Broxburn. LXI decker
Noticed a Lothian Country decker broken down at St Johns , must a aways from a spare bus out here.
 

Driver362

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We have been re.assured the move is still.on ,not heard Anything about more.phases other than the planned x18,n28 ,but agree it isn't big enough for all opp co's ,the people will decide or if one of the other pulls the plug ,Lothian must be spending a.pretty penny in country ,but can first take the loss in revenue that they are losing long term i.e to 2020 route 101 ? Ultimately as long as.there are no.major job losses.on either side of the tracks I'd be reasonably happy
 

overthewater

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I still see people asking why isn't there a 7 day weekly ticket, and until this happens its hard to see how LCB can win over more passengers.
 

In Focus

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We have been re.assured the move is still.on ,not heard Anything about more.phases other than the planned x18,n28 ,but agree it isn't big enough for all opp co's ,the people will decide or if one of the other pulls the plug ,Lothian must be spending a.pretty penny in country ,but can first take the loss in revenue that they are losing long term i.e to 2020 route 101 ? Ultimately as long as.there are no.major job losses.on either side of the tracks I'd be reasonably happy
The same can be levelled at LCB ,can they sustain the losses ?
How long will Lothian fund this venture?
I'm guessing like you it's a case of who blinks first and for First it will be case of being backed by Group to sustain FSE long term if that happens they will most probably ride it out and potentially attempt to strike back into certain areas of Lothians network safe in the knowledge they will take more doing that than Lothian do in West Lothian.

My own feeling is if they both sat down and had dialogue ( most unlikely I know) there could be a solution that would suit both and in doing so no major job losses need occur. Unfortunately as I say this is very unlikely to be the outcome .
 

SpeedbirdA350

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1029? Is there some reason the ex london buses are so unreliable? Never seem to have as many reports with others in the fleet as there has been with the ex londoners.
 

Gingerbus1991

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1029? Is there some reason the ex london buses are so unreliable? Never seem to have as many reports with others in the fleet as there has been with the ex londoners.
I seem to see quite alot written about the ex lons regarding there reliability, I canny only put that down to the way they've been treated in London.
 

SpeedbirdA350

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It's worrying too given these are always on the LCB routes that are competing with First with. Am I correct in saying they have 30 (26 ex london and 4 ex bull/manchester) buses in the LCB fleet? I do wonder if lothian will bite the bullet and when the new 400XLBs enter service early next year, take some of the central fleet (that the 400xlb replace) and put them to LCB to replace the ex londoners which can then be put in LB colours and hopfully fixed properly. Otherwise, they will have the unreliablity tag line next to their name and from a PR standpoint, that will not be good, especially with a somewhat new venture.
 

Darklord8899

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.... given the issues with LCB ex-London stock, the 29 often has ex-London stock on it, I'm surprised that they actually make it to Gorebridge (some fairly nasty hills out there)
 

Jordan Adam

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With the Ex-London stock, that's what happens when you try to glorify a lemon!

I'd suspect the main issues will be fuel injectors blowing (common B9 fault), probably made worse by the fact they've had demanding lives. Further to that it's been mentioned before that they keep running out of fuel.
 

Darklord8899

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With the Ex-London stock, that's what happens when you try to glorify a lemon!

I'd suspect the main issues will be fuel injectors blowing (common B9 fault), probably made worse by the fact they've had demanding lives. Further to that it's been mentioned before that they keep running out of fuel.

Lol next we will get a LCB refuelling station in Livi :lol::p
 

SpeedbirdA350

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I assume that Lothian would have been aware of issues of them before buying them, which makes the deal even more baffling, but were they not given an overhaul or was it just a cosmetic refurb? I know they had LCB to think of but that could have either been pushed back before it was made public or they could have taken some from each of the depots, or even used some tridents.
 

Darklord8899

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I assume that Lothian would have been aware of issues of them before buying them, which makes the deal even more baffling, but were they not given an overhaul or was it just a cosmetic refurb? I know they had LCB to think of but that could have either been pushed back before it was made public or they could have taken some from each of the depots, or even used some tridents.

.....the Tridents would have been better I suspect....
 

SpeedbirdA350

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Lol next we will get a LCB refuelling station in Livi :lol::p
lol they might just need to do that! I did wonder why the X27/X28 went to central after every run... yet some in the main fleet can run circles around them while they have been in for the third time to refill up. Must be costing Lothian a fortune in fuel bills!
 

Observer

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I assume that Lothian would have been aware of issues of them before buying them, which makes the deal even more baffling, but were they not given an overhaul or was it just a cosmetic refurb? I know they had LCB to think of but that could have either been pushed back before it was made public or they could have taken some from each of the depots, or even used some tridents.
I was told once that the gearboxes were also reset out of London mode so they wouldn't be so slow.
 

CM

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It wouldn't surprise me that they're unreliable because they were new to First London. I find it even more surprising that Lothian would by former First vehicles to begin with.
 

Gingerbus1991

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lol they might just need to do that! I did wonder why the X27/X28 went to central after every run... yet some in the main fleet can run circles around them while they have been in for the third time to refill up. Must be costing Lothian a fortune in fuel bills!
Its wont cost lothian anymore to run these than it does on the other stock, I suspect its there fuel tanks were specified to be smaller at the time of purchase, I only suspect this to be the case as lothian pre-existing fleet don’t have this problem.
 

Gingerbus1991

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I was told once that the gearboxes were also reset out of London mode so they wouldn't be so slow.
I believe this to be the case.

Its not a specific london mode, Early ZF Ecomat gearboxes can have there parameters changed to allow more rpm and responce ergo better acceleration at the cost of fuel, E.G. Super Eco, Eco and Power modes.

the latest versions of ZFs Ecolife also have an adaptive functionality called “Topodyn”, this function also allows Eco and Power modes etc, but are adaptive in the sense that even in Power mode they should be able to upshift early with small acceleration depressions but kickdown naturally without a forced kickdown switch, in Eco mode the Ecolife, as the names suggests is for economy but should be able to sense when the vehicle is on a hill.

Apparently ZF and Volvo are already well into developing GPS guided gearboxes, that that know when there on a Motorway for more power but then when they enter a city they can change to allow more fuel saving, or if the GPS software can “see” a hill before your actually on the hill the gearbox will kickdown before this to maintain speed or simply to make sure the gearbox is in the right gear for the terrain, the roundabout or hill etc.

Apologies for boring everyone..
 
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Jordan Adam

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I believe this to be the case.

Its not a specific london mode, Early ZF Ecomat gearboxes can have there parameters changed to allow more rpm and responce ergo better acceleration at the cost of fuel, E.G. Super Eco, Eco and Power modes.

the latest versions of ZFs Ecolife also have an adaptive functionality called “Topodyn”, this function also allows Eco and Power modes etc, but are adaptive in the sense that even in Power mode they should be able to upshift early with small acceleration depressions but kickdown naturally without a forced kickdown switch, in Eco mode the Ecolife, as the names suggests is for economy but should be able to sense when the vehicle is on a hill.

Apparently ZF and Volvo are already well into developing GPS guided gearboxes, that that know when there on a Motorway for more power but then when they enter a city they can change to allow more fuel saving, or if the GPS software can “see” a hill before your actually on the hill the gearbox will kickdown before this to maintain speed or simply to make sure the gearbox is in the right gear for the terrain, the roundabout or hill etc.

Apologies for boring everyone..

The Topodyn function honestly makes little difference to the speed of a B9TL unless it's going up a ridiculously steep hill. Even then you just find that it sits at higher RPM while not gaining much more speed. Out of anything with the B9TLs on a flat it just makes it slower. Some ZF Ecolife Enviro300s on the other hand go like stabbed rats!
 

NotATrainspott

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Apparently ZF and Volvo are already well into developing GPS guided gearboxes, that that know when there on a Motorway for more power but then when they enter a city they can change to allow more fuel saving, or if the GPS software can “see” a hill before your actually on the hill the gearbox will kickdown before this to maintain speed or simply to make sure the gearbox is in the right gear for the terrain, the roundabout or hill etc.

Apologies for boring everyone..

ZF and/or BMW Group have already developed that technology for new Rolls-Royce models. I was surprised that it hadn't been developed before or rolled out more widely.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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One of my mates told me there is space to fit a larger fuel tank (these are found in the Voith ones Lothian have), Lothian were offered this option by Wright but chose not to and instead opt for constant refuelling at Central
 

In Focus

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1029? Is there some reason the ex london buses are so unreliable? Never seem to have as many reports with others in the fleet as there has been with the ex londoners.
It's a stark contrast the basically shuttling around London stop / start type of work to the work they are being asked to do now , and time wise drivers need to be keeping them moving especially on 27/28 corridor ,I'd imagine the parts they come with are specifically for short journeys , i recall last time Lothian came to West Lothian they had a whole lot of overheating issues and it seems that is once again an issue .
 

Driver362

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A few points here lads ,personally I would have used ex Lothian stock totally agree there ultimately they had the choice to buy or walk away ,yes they are ex first stock and some of us know what ingenious fixes the engineering dept could come up with ,yes they have small tanks I'm led to believe this will be rectified,time will tell ,buses only get fuelled once per day round about between 11 and 2 ish not every run ! Overheating probs are normally down to an elbow hose just above the gearbox failing hardly a catastrophic failure I've only ever heard of 1 bus having injector problems ? Normally poor performance if the boost gauge is any barometer is lack of boost ,and or blocked filters ,not injectors ! Top speed issues are normally because the limiter is set to low ,and in any case apart from overheating issues you can normally keep reasonably good time frustrating yes but a major problem no,and finally the blue buses or what ever the colours of the month are break too !!!
 

Gingerbus1991

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ZF and/or BMW Group have already developed that technology for new Rolls-Royce models. I was surprised that it hadn't been developed before or rolled out more widely.
Not on the 6 speed Ecolife’s fitted to buses.

This feature has cascaded to all BMW models with 8 speed autos these days.
 
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