I also remember an RMT announcement of strikes during the Manchester commonwealth games, which they later withdrew, can’t remember what it was over .
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Arriva Rail North DOO
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Maybe they're banking on a change of government as there could be another election soon. Corbyn would placate them straight away.
They're all quite happy having their Saturdays off every week though, they'd be almost sorry if it was resolved at this point as they'd have to work on a Saturday again (which is why this will go on indefinitely). Not as good for those of us who have to work and finding it harder every week with what services there are on seemingly reduced by the week. I go home from work on an overcrowded train that I have to get off 2 miles away from my normal stop because the station is shut on strike days. I'd quite like my Saturdays off as well like the Northern staff.
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Muttley
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There's nothing stopping you. Don't go in, you won't get paid, but neither do the conductors.
Anything else I can help you with ?
Anything else I can help you with ?
Andy McDonald's promise on DOO was only that under Labour further DOO wouldn't be proposed. There was no policy about reinstating guards on routes that have lost them or a guarantee that DOO would be stopped on Northern and Merseyrail. Possibly the fact that Labour proposed DOO on the latter and Labour councils signed off the DCO for Northern is the reason for that.
If you go on strike you effectively get an extra day's unpaid holiday. If there's no industrial dispute and you haven't booked the day off then you need a valid excuse for not turning up for work e.g. being too ill to work or a close family member dying, if you don't have a good excuse you risk being sacked for breaching your contract of employment.
I believe that was actually Aslef , and it was pay/driver retention/conditions/productivity
Ok cheers, my mistake then .
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
On this particular series of strikes, they absolutely did.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't know about you, though, but while I'd quite happily have an extra day off a week[1] from my job (and I'm sure most people would, or at least those who "work to live" who I'd imagine are by far the majority), I would certainly not want the accompanying 1/5 pay cut. That's the thing that, particularly in the run up to Christmas, makes it seem surprising that some (the ones who wouldn't mind being OBS, essentially) aren't going back.
[1] Not on strike of course - I am fortunate to have a good relationship with my employer.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If I wilfully didn't turn up one day a week without first arranging that formally, I would indeed not get paid - for any days following that day, as I'd be sacked for gross misconduct. You can't assume employers will all be understanding (though some will where feasible e.g. allowing home working), most will expect you to make some kind of other arrangement to get in or to leave.
To strike, one must have a grievance with one's own employer. Sympathetic striking (or just deciding not to turn up) is not legal and so is subject to disciplinary action up to and including dismissal.
You were said earlier
From 2001 to late 2003 I was using FNW services most Saturdays (but never Sundays) and occasionally weekdays - routes I used included Mid-Cheshire, Buxton-Blackpool, Manchester-Warrington-Liverpool and Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield. I never travelled on a replacement bus under FNW but did on some occasions have to get someone to give me a lift due to no FNW services operating and when I got a lift to an alternative station I recall there being long queues to buy tickets due to a lot of others doing the same.
In fact I'm 100% sure the only time I travelled on a service provided by a train operator on a strike day between 1997 and 2004 was when I travelled on a North TPE service with ATN managing to run something like an hourly Manchester to York train service on strike days.
With FNW having so many non-strike related issues like an ASLEF overtime ban/agreement expiring, catering for the Commonwealth Games, running services while Piccadilly station was being redeveloped, teething problems with the 175s, as well as normal engineering works I'm sure you've got a strike mixed up with something else.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I absolutely have not, but as I sadly don't have any printed evidence (I did go looking for it!) we will have to agree to differ.
Lemmy99uk
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The pay cut is not 1/5 though. At worst a Conductor would work 2 Saturdays in three, and this can easily be made up at most depots by working a couple of Rest Days over the 3 weeks.
Unlucky to take a four week hit over a four week pay period. The average is two to three.
You see people aren't going back because very few people believe a word Arriva say, and believe the government less. This strike is now totally entrenched. No matter what happens relations are soured to the point where it will take years to repair. All three sides, RMT, DFT, and Arriva are all as bad as each other.
The RMT are planning on paying out £200 from the strike fund in December, and because Arriva messed about with the pay talks, all the back pay from as far back as last April is due at the end of this month. You see Peter Wilkinson was wrong when he said the rail workers will back down because there is two many flash cars to be paid for and credit cards. There isn't, and as sad as it may seem, people are more than happy to take the hit rather than work a Saturday late around Christmas. Peter Wilkinson was a fool, I hope he realises how much of a fool he was.
I was talking to someone who went to the RMT meeting held in Leeds recently. I think the bottom line is this. It is going to drag on and on and on. I have issues with all three players in this mess, but I seriously think this is going to make the Southern dispute look like a playground squabble.
You want the truth from the front line. Sorry to say, this is it.
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Robertj21a
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I've always thought it would drag on through much of 2019. Perhaps we now should be wondering about 2020.
I have grave anxieties that it might. Because we all have to come to terms with a simple fact. New trains with cameras are only going to make up a fraction of the total traction. It will not be a overnight transition like Southern. This strike really does have potential to go on for years to come.
Robertj21a
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At least the there will be many fewer passengers, so less crowded trains. Can probably start to consider reducing frequencies, or closing little-used services.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's certainly my fear that this is used as an excuse for branch line and station closures.
In some cases this could benefit various light rail systems. There is a campaign for trams to serve the south Fylde line to Lytham.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Which, ironically, are all DOO or DCO or whatever you call it, revenue-only conductors notwithstanding.
I don't think expansion of Metrolink onto Manchester diesel suburbans[1], or the Blackpool tramway through to a bay at Kirkham and Wesham, would be a bad idea at all, to be honest (I think the Blackpool South one is a particularly good idea, in fact) - but it does leave lines like Ormskirk-Preston, Kirkby-Wigan, the Cumbrian Coast etc rather at risk in my view. And closure of those would be very much a bad thing with the occasional ruminating about Merseyrail extensions.
[1] I also wonder if the idea of Metrolink taking over electrified heavy rail lines and operating "tram train" without any street running, along the lines of London Overground, might not be an utterly terrible idea. The Hadfields would fit this quite well for example. That too would be, err, DOO.
Eccles1983
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Where is the money coming from for light rail conversions?
The DfT won't be paying for it, and Lancashire County Council is broke.
Pipe dreams. There will be no line closures - political suicide when billions is being pumped into crossrail/HS2.
The DfT won't be paying for it, and Lancashire County Council is broke.
Pipe dreams. There will be no line closures - political suicide when billions is being pumped into crossrail/HS2.
I agree with the above. Going back to the South Fylde line, it's normally one of the casualties when something impacts Preston. For years it has often been missed out to make up time or send resources elsewhere. Think people are catching on this and thus the appeal for LRT has surged. The BPN connection has seen the interest in LRT peak in the area. Correct DCO with 2 ticket examiners
Out of the lines mentioned, the Cumbrian Coast wouldn't close. This is simply because of Sellafield and the people who commute there. Wether or not the line becomes DOO is another matter I guess.
I don't really know much about the other lines mentioned.
WatcherZero
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Strike dates through 29th Dec announced (though RMT have mistakenly labelled their press release today as November 2nd), will take us to the 42nd strike day and 19th consecutive Saturday.
On 2nd November they already did announce dates up to and including 29th December.
Aren't you concerned that since the strike has been going on for so long you could be legally made redundant? And with such employment history you would be pretty much unemployable in the rail industry.
In the real world it isn't going to happen is it. If everyone on strike was made redundant you wouldn't see a train for about six month.
Lets be realistic because we are going around banging our heads against the same wall in frustration. I'm as frustrated as anyone, because I'm at the sharp end and have no clue where any of this will end up. But in the realistic world DCO should have been phased in at the same time as units capable of supporting DCO were phased in. But the DFT was so keen on imposing this, they never stopped to think.
I have no idea where this is going the same as you.
LOL The Irony
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If it's outside of the county of Greater Manchester, it's not happening. Casing point, the MCL tram train debacle. And of the subject of tram trains, they'll be pure DOO, something that the RMT don't want for safety reasons. So if these strikes cause some rail lines to become light rail, guided busway etc., they'll have cut off their nose to spite their face. Whoops.
All this talk about lines being closed etc . Surely given that the strikes have been confined to a saturday for some time now the only passenger numbers which will drop long term are weekend travellers . So if any reduction is service is going to manifest it is going to be at weekends only , with lines being reduced to sunday levels of service on Saturdays as well .
That being said if reliability continues to suffer on Sundays then we might just end up with a mon-fri railway .
indeed from anecdotal experience peak commuting times are still as busy as ever.
That being said if reliability continues to suffer on Sundays then we might just end up with a mon-fri railway .
indeed from anecdotal experience peak commuting times are still as busy as ever.
I had a booked shift this morning. It was quite busy.
I suspect, could be wrong mind. But I suspect a lot of people who would head out shopping on a Saturday are heading out on a Sunday.
Saturday strikes might hit the night time economies of the big cities, but perhaps it is helping the towns and villages by people staying local and drinking there.
No lines will be closed. We don't live in the times of closing lines. It would be politically foolish and potentially suicidal for the sitting MP. Eden Brow was a classic example. The repair work cost millions upon millions more than what the cost of repairs to the Ribblehead viaduct cost in the 80's.
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Yes, remember the previous labour government much preferred purpose built bussways over light or heavy rail, think Cambridge-st Ives, Luton -Dunstable, Fareham-Gosport etc, plus no trams materialised in Liverpool, Leeds or expanded in London
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