get my oap bus pass next year use on tfl from redhill surrey

big all · 20 Nov 2018

get my surrey county council bus pass 06/may/2019 use contactless on the 405 at present
will my oap pass be contactless or how does it work
assuming all weekday journeys between 10 00 and 2200
how does it work when using train and bus combinations
and does it work on trams for free at a discount or not allowed ??
sorry for the silly questions but both the tfl and scc websites confused me more than helped :rolleyes:

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Typhoon · 20 Nov 2018

big all said:
get my surrey county council bus pass 06/may/2019 use contactless on the 405 at present
will my oap pass be contactless or how does it work
assuming all weekday journeys between 10 00 and 2200
how does it work when using train and bus combinations
and does it work on trams for free at a discount or not allowed ??
sorry for the silly questions but both the tfl and scc websites confused me more than helped

My ENCTS bus pass is from Kent but all are the same except if the local authority has forked out for extra - Kent doesn't, I can't find any evidence that Surrey does.
Pass kicks in at 09:30, finishes at 23:00.
You do have to apply for the card - get in early (6 weeks) as processing can take time. Leaflet - ours from the library, so you could try there first.
I imagine the 405 you are referring to is the Redhill - Croydon route. Won't work on machine. show the driver your card. If they are a regular on that route they will be used to that - if you are lucky they will nod their heads, if not they will ignore you. I have never found Revenue Protection an issue.
Train - no chance, but if you buy a Senior Railcard, get it linked to your ENCTS card (I guess a Croydon station can do that but not 100%). Tram - I don't think so.

The card is very worthwhile having, enjoy it!

AndyW33 · 20 Nov 2018

All bus passes issued by local councils in England are contactless. However the London version of contactless is significantly different from that used everywhere else, because they got started much sooner. So a Surrey-issued contactless pass (issued to the ENCTS standard), can't be read by a TfL (London) card reader or vice versa. That doesn't mean you can't use the passes, they can be used on buses right across England, it is just that you have to show them to the driver instead. By no means all bus operators even have ticket machines or read-pads that accept contactless passes or bank cards at all.
When it comes to using trains or trams, what you get is what the council that issues the pass is willing to pay for. In the case of Surrey, this does not include trains or trams at all. People resident in the Greater London Area (who may have Surrey postal addresses, but whose homes won't actually have been on Surrey for over 50 years) do get tram travel etc, and the council tax they pay reflects this.

Typhoon · 20 Nov 2018

big all said:
get my surrey county council bus pass 06/may/2019 use contactless on the 405 at present
will my oap pass be contactless or how does it work
assuming all weekday journeys between 10 00 and 2200
how does it work when using train and bus combinations
and does it work on trams for free at a discount or not allowed ??
sorry for the silly questions but both the tfl and scc websites confused me more than helped

I've found this:
www.blog.freebustravel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/londonbusdriversguide114.pdf
Mentions trams. It is not a TfL site but appears to use TfL material. I only once found a driver who didn't know the rules so I wouldn't print it out unless you would find it helpful.
I think the chances of Surrey offering more than their statutory obligation is pretty close to nil given that they are cash strapped and not over friendly to bus travel.
See
https://www.surreysays.co.uk/environment-and-infrastructure/concessionary-bus-travel/
You might wish to contribute.
For most operators in Redhill you can scan your card - some (Southdown, Compass last time I travelled on them) give a ticket, other operators (running on TfL routes at least) don't. Its worthwhile keeping the ticket in the unlikely event that revenue protection come to call.

big all · 20 Nov 2018

thanks people
didnt think tram was included but thought there may be a discount
will definatly get a railcard probably a 3 year one when they are £10 off

Wirewiper · 20 Nov 2018

The 405 is a Transport for London bus service so you will actually be able to use your ENCTS pass at any time on this route.

You won;t be able to use it on any rail-based transport in London, including trams.

johnmoly · 20 Nov 2018

On Merseyside you can use the oap travel pass on buses, trains and ferries. Trains and Ferry can only be Merseytravel issued cards. These cards are issued from 60 years of age for both sexes. The English bus pass part will be sent automatically to you when you reach the required age. Interestingly the Ferry part can only apply to cross river sections, not used on the river tour, but, as nobody comes round to check on what your doing !!!!!.

Typhoon · 20 Nov 2018

johnmoly said:
On Merseyside you can use the oap travel pass on buses, trains and ferries. Trains and Ferry can only be Merseytravel issued cards. These cards are issued from 60 years of age for both sexes. The English bus pass part will be sent automatically to you when you reach the required age. Interestingly the Ferry part can only apply to cross river sections, not used on the river tour, but, as nobody comes round to check on what your doing !!!!!.

West Midlands allows train and trams, too.
Some areas used to allow travel from 9am but most of these benefits have been eroded for us in the shires!

Statto · 20 Nov 2018

Typhoon said:
West Midlands allows train and trams, too.
Some areas used to allow travel from 9am but most of these benefits have been eroded for us in the shires!

Merseytravel issued ENCTS passes are valid 09.30 until last service Monday to Friday in Merseyside, valid on the whole of Merseyrail, & other trains in Merseyside area & Ferry as well, very much the old Senior pass morphed into ENCTS.

Wolfie · 20 Nov 2018

big all said:
get my surrey county council bus pass 06/may/2019 use contactless on the 405 at present
will my oap pass be contactless or how does it work
assuming all weekday journeys between 10 00 and 2200
how does it work when using train and bus combinations
and does it work on trams for free at a discount or not allowed ??
sorry for the silly questions but both the tfl and scc websites confused me more than helped

The card which you will be getting offers the minimum national standards (unless Surrey pay for extras which l don't believe they do) which essentially means off-peak bus usage. London offers more which the TfL website is likely to be referring to.

big all · 20 Nov 2018

thanks again for all your answers
i very much doubt surrey will do more than the very minimum as a true blue council

Typhoon · 20 Nov 2018

Wirewiper said:
The 405 is a Transport for London bus service so you will actually be able to use your ENCTS pass at any time on this route.

Yes, I'd forgotten about that. I can't understand why. TfL can't be getting any money for it (can they?) and it would be easy enough to monitor - card doesn't scan so wait until 9:30.

OP - questions weren't silly, they were just questions you don't know the answers to.

big all · 20 Nov 2018

my tag line on all forums where i have worked out how to do it isss
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we are ----------------------all still learning

Busaholic · 20 Nov 2018

Wirewiper said:
The 405 is a Transport for London bus service so you will actually be able to use your ENCTS pass at any time on this route.

You won;t be able to use it on any rail-based transport in London, including trams.

Just to re-iterate (I've had an ENCTS pass for ten years now) on any bus routes operated on behalf of TfL you can use them all day, every day, over the whole route, even those that encroach into the Home Counties, and the 405 is a TfL contracted route: it's always bugged me that Tramlink use is barred, seeing as how parallel bus routes were withdrawn when it was introduced, but there we are!

Deerfold · 21 Nov 2018

AndyW33 said:
All bus passes issued by local councils in England are contactless. However the London version of contactless is significantly different from that used everywhere else, because they got started much sooner. So a Surrey-issued contactless pass (issued to the ENCTS standard), can't be read by a TfL (London) card reader or vice versa. That doesn't mean you can't use the passes, they can be used on buses right across England, it is just that you have to show them to the driver instead.

I don't doubt that you're right but I am wondering what TfL are up to. The ticket machines were upgraded to be able to read non-London passes at the same time as they started taking contactless credit and debit cards, but they seem to have never switched the option on. I wonder if this got lost when management of the system changed departments a few years ago.

Deerfold · 21 Nov 2018

Typhoon said:
Yes, I'd forgotten about that. I can't understand why. TfL can't be getting any money for it (can they?) and it would be easy enough to monitor - card doesn't scan so wait until 9:30.

The number of non-TfL ENTCS users outside of 0930-2300 is tiny as a proportion of all journeys and it makes the rules for drivers simple.

big all · 21 Nov 2018

what happens if your journey starts as say 2255 or bus gets to destination at say 23.30 does you ticket expire at say 23.10 with a new ticket required in case off inspector ??
or is this more to stop night but usage ??

CatfordCat · 21 Nov 2018

In terms of TFL buses, this TFL page says

Using bus passes if you don't live in London
If you've got an English National Concessionary Scheme bus pass, issued by an English council outside of London, you can travel on our buses. Just show your pass to the driver.

This implies that concessionary passes issued outside London are not valid on Croydon trams, and I am quite sure they are not valid on rail / Overground / Underground / DLR services inside London. Councils (including the 'London Councils' consortium that is responsible for 'Freedom Pass') have the power to offer more than statutory minimum to their own residents (I believe it's similar in and around Nottingham where only local concessionary passes are valid on their trams)

big all said:
what happens if your journey starts as say 2255 or bus gets to destination at say 23.30 does you ticket expire at say 23.10 with a new ticket required in case off inspector ??
or is this more to stop night but usage ??

No. If you board a bus before 2300 then the journey is valid (it may not be if the bus leaves terminus at 2300 but starts loading at 2255. And not sure quite how it would work if your bus was due at 2255 but was more than 5 minutes late)

I never quite understood the point of this restriction - seems very mean minded to tell older people they are not expected to stay out until closing time...

Typhoon · 22 Nov 2018

CatfordCat said:
No. If you board a bus before 2300 then the journey is valid (it may not be if the bus leaves terminus at 2300 but starts loading at 2255. And not sure quite how it would work if your bus was due at 2255 but was more than 5 minutes late)

I never quite understood the point of this restriction - seems very mean minded to tell older people they are not expected to stay out until closing time...

To stop pensioners using all night buses?

I reckon that most drivers would have other things on their mind at a few minutes past 11 than whether a pensioner is boarding illegally! (However it would be worth knowing.)

AM9 · 22 Nov 2018

Busaholic said:
Just to re-iterate (I've had an ENCTS pass for ten years now) on any bus routes operated on behalf of TfL you can use them all day, every day, over the whole route, even those that encroach into the Home Counties, and the 405 is a TfL contracted route: it's always bugged me that Tramlink use is barred, seeing as how parallel bus routes were withdrawn when it was introduced, but there we are!

Similarly, the Herts ENCTS is 24/7 on services wholly/partially within the county (except the Green Line services that run down the M1). All other English bus journeys (except TfL) are subject to 'twirly' restrictions.

PeterC · 22 Nov 2018

On the other hand weekends are unrestricted so technically on a Friday night the restriction is only between 23:00 and midnight and then there is full usage until midnight Sunday. Although where I live a "night bus" is one that runs after tea time so the discussion is purely accademic in my case.

big all · 22 Nov 2018

CatfordCat said:
No. If you board a bus before 2300 then the journey is valid (it may not be if the bus leaves terminus at 2300 but starts loading at 2255. And not sure quite how it would work if your bus was due at 2255 but was more than 5 minutes late)

I never quite understood the point of this restriction - seems very mean minded to tell older people they are not expected to stay out until closing time...

thats sort off the point second to last bus leaves redhill at 22.50 ish so valid as its a 5 min journey so under normal conditions within the 2300 dead line in all circumstances ------

----------------- now that gets me thinking journey starts at 22.50 can i now continue on a second bus within the hour as the same journey ??-------------

Wirewiper · 22 Nov 2018

big all said:
thats sort off the point second to last bus leaves redhill at 22.50 ish so valid as its a 5 min journey so under normal conditions within the 2300 dead line in all circumstances ------

----------------- now that gets me thinking journey starts at 22.50 can i now continue on a second bus within the hour as the same journey ??-------------

If you are referring to the 405 - you are forgetting that this is a Transport for London service, so there is no time restriction for ENCTS passes.

PeterC · 22 Nov 2018

Wirewiper said:
If you are referring to the 405 - you are forgetting that this is a Transport for London service, so there is no time restriction for ENCTS passes.

I read the post as being about the generic rules, as was my response above.

big all · 22 Nov 2018

Wirewiper said:
If you are referring to the 405 - you are forgetting that this is a Transport for London service, so there is no time restriction for ENCTS passes.

excuse my ignorance whats a ENCTS ??
ahh ok googled it lol

Deerfold · 22 Nov 2018

PeterC said:
I read the post as being about the generic rules, as was my response above.

Except they quoted the times that the 405 runs, which may be why people assumed otherwise.

Busaholic · 22 Nov 2018

CatfordCat said:
In terms of TFL buses, this TFL page says

This implies that concessionary passes issued outside London are not valid on Croydon trams, and I am quite sure they are not valid on rail / Overground / Underground / DLR services inside London. Councils (including the 'London Councils' consortium that is responsible for 'Freedom Pass') have the power to offer more than statutory minimum to their own residents (I believe it's similar in and around Nottingham where only local concessionary passes are valid on their trams)

No. If you board a bus before 2300 then the journey is valid (it may not be if the bus leaves terminus at 2300 but starts loading at 2255. And not sure quite how it would work if your bus was due at 2255 but was more than 5 minutes late)

I never quite understood the point of this restriction - seems very mean minded to tell older people they are not expected to stay out until closing time...

ENCTS definitely not available on Tramlink. I once had to hop off one in Croydon and use the Oyster reader at the next tram stop before hopping back on (a real Hopper fare?!) when I remembered. They USED to be available on Blackpool trams, but now the concession is restricted to local i.e. Lancashire pass holders, I believe.

Robertj21a · 22 Nov 2018

Busaholic said:
ENCTS definitely not available on Tramlink. I once had to hop off one in Croydon and use the Oyster reader at the next tram stop before hopping back on (a real Hopper fare?!) when I remembered. They USED to be available on Blackpool trams, but now the concession is restricted to local i.e. Lancashire pass holders, I believe.

The only trams on which ENCTS is currently valid (to residents outside the area) is Sheffield.

philthetube · 23 Nov 2018

Blackpool now only free to residents of blackpool

Man of Kent · 23 Nov 2018

philthetube said:
Blackpool now only free to residents of blackpool

Not quite accurate - those issued to residents of Wyre Borough, which covers the Fleetwood area (part of Lancashire - Blackpool is a unitary), are also valid at normal times, except (according to a note on the Blackpool Transport website) on Fri/Sat/Suns after 1800 during the illumination season (and also same times on Mon-Thurs of autumn half term week).

get my oap bus pass next year use on tfl from redhill surrey

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