Spain also accepts Gibraltar as being part of the EU. For instance, Spanish national IDs are valid for travel between EU countries but not between EU and non-EU countries - if you go to the Spain-Gibraltar border almost every Spanish citizen presents an ID card not a passport. A former mayor of La Linea also realised that Spain could not charge people for people to travel over the border, they proposed a 'congestion charge' for vehicles entering La Linea for the purpose of crossing in to Gibraltar in an attempt to find a loophole but the EU said that would still be a border crossing fee in their eyes.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
- Thread starter ainsworth74
- Start date
- Status
Spain also accepts Gibraltar as being part of the EU. For instance, Spanish national IDs are valid for travel between EU countries but not between EU and non-EU countries - if you go to the Spain-Gibraltar border almost every Spanish citizen presents an ID card not a passport. A former mayor of La Linea also realised that Spain could not charge people for people to travel over the border, they proposed a 'congestion charge' for vehicles entering La Linea for the purpose of crossing in to Gibraltar in an attempt to find a loophole but the EU said that would still be a border crossing fee in their eyes.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Howardh
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2011
- Messages
- 8,155
Rather a lot actually. Think of it as important as the Republic (EU) and Northern Ireland; except the "border" is a short stretch of water, with Anguila being Northern Ireland.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43126719
Also; including map https://www.dw.com/en/britains-overseas-territories-brace-for-brexit/a-44789154
It's such a pity that people haven't done their research regarding the concequences of Brexit, not just here but also regarding our valued overseas territories.
sums it all up. I name you as one Dominic Raab.
But then again if it doesn't suit Brexit's mantra it gets brushed to one side.
Anguila, just like Northern Ireland, is collateral damage. Because what's important is sovereignty. You know, that thing which Leavers are so reluctant to define. Why is that? Well, because what they are really saying is that they trust a bunch of bloated English plutocrats to govern us better than a mixed bunch of English, French, German, etc. bloated plutocrats. And what does that say? That thing which they are so anxious to deny. The hate that dare not speak its name.
Hell, we can't even get the local council to do what the majority of people want, e.g. make sure that if they build thousands of new houses they upgrade the roads, schools, doctors, etc to cope with them. Does anyone really think that putting some decisions in the hands of Westminster is going to create better outcomes than them being left on Brussels? Much of the current laws protecting workers and people originated in Europe, not Westminster. No wonder Rees-Mogg is a Brexiter; he'd like to see them repealed.
Hell, we can't even get the local council to do what the majority of people want, e.g. make sure that if they build thousands of new houses they upgrade the roads, schools, doctors, etc to cope with them. Does anyone really think that putting some decisions in the hands of Westminster is going to create better outcomes than them being left on Brussels? Much of the current laws protecting workers and people originated in Europe, not Westminster. No wonder Rees-Mogg is a Brexiter; he'd like to see them repealed.
Howardh
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2011
- Messages
- 8,155
Hear hear. Sovereignty begins at home with our local councils.
Fracking? Don't want it? Have it.
Building a "Ryder Cup" golf course on current open parkland (Hulton/Bolton)? Don't want it? Have it.
And on the wides scale, just wait until - as you suggest - Mogg and his big-business mates start to erode your worker's rights big time. Still, at least people voting to leave will be able to take their case to the European Courts to get justice.
Oh, wait....
Howardh
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2011
- Messages
- 8,155
And they didn't even get to vote.
Makes me want to cry, not only do we want to leave the EU we appear to want to leave our own valued British overseas territories - who to a man, woman and island are proud to be, and want to remain British - to the wolves.
Brexit = "me, me, me and sod our pals overseas".
Muttley
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2007
- Messages
- 247
Absolutely unbelievable.
You've broken my irony-meter.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
I do like all these comments from Remainers about the Leaver vote being a selfish one? REALLY? you're telling me that ALL leavers voted for their own selfish self-interest and ALL remainers voted with altruistic self sacrifice... what absolute rot... NO-ONE votes altruistically... EVERYONE votes the way that they believe will give THEM the best outcome.... NOT A SINGLE VOTER voted in the referendum with a small carribean island in mind.. not even you remainers!
Thanks for telling me how *I* voted and why. And here it was I thought that, having grown up in the Caribbean, the impact on the British Overseas Territories was a factor in how *I* voted, but I must've imagined it.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
sorry but I don't see why you're offended by my remarks... I was answering a point made that leave voters only voted for selfish reasons.... a generalisation... so I turned it on it's head.... but it is true...NO-ONE votes for altruistic reasons... everyone votes, when it comes down to it, for selfish reasons... what is the best outcome for them...
or are you telling me that you would vote for a party that promised to spend billions on aid development, but would tax you 90% to pay for it?
no? thought not!
I'm not offended. I just find it rich that you presume to know the though patterns of every single voter.
No. Because that would make everyone worse off.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
as I said... no more so than anyone who claims that all leave voters only did so for selfish reasons. Seems to me that Remainers are quite happy to throw about accusations and generalisations... but G-d help a leave voter doing the same... Remainers HATE generalisations when they're hurled back.
And it's not that I presume to know the thought patterns of every single voter... but I DO know that human beings, in general, are not as altruistic as they would like to think they are.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
well it wouldn't make all those overseas territories worse off would it? what you DO mean is that you wouldn't vote for it because YOU would be worse off... and sod all those overseas territories... you're not willing to make that big a sacrifice to your living standard to help them out. Ergo you've proved my point... you don't vote for altruistic reasons... only your own family's self interest... ie selfish reasons
No. Because my neighbors, co-workers and the guy down the road who I've never spoken to would be worse off. UK tax revenue should be used to help all UK subjects - both those in the UK and those in our Territories. Spending 99% on 1% doesn't make sense regardless of where they are located.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
lol keep trying... as I said... I was answering a post that generalised all leavers as selfish in their vote... I turned that argument on it's head and accused remainers of doing the same... and all of a sudden it's offensive to make the generalisation.... geese and ganders come to mind
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
lol no... IF you were brutally honest with yourself you would admit that what effect that policy would have on neighbours, co-workers and even strangers would have absolutely no bearing on how you would vote... you only vote for the party that you believe will give YOU the best deal for YOU.
But then again what would I, as a leave voter, know about human nature and voting? after all I'm a rabid, xenophobic, jingoistic idiot that hasn't got over the war {or the world cup} who doesn't give a single thought about the future of our country or of it's children to come....
Personally speaking, I voted on what I thought was best for my children, the country and the wider world. I am lucky and don't really have any worries about my own situation.
I think the leave we will get - and were always likely to get - will make everyone worse off though. It seems most leavers accept that, but apparently think it's a small price to pay for sovereignty.
I think the leave we will get - and were always likely to get - will make everyone worse off though. It seems most leavers accept that, but apparently think it's a small price to pay for sovereignty.
EM2
Established Member
You might, but you don't speak for me.
Temple Meads
Established Member
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
then as I've said a number of times in the last few posts.... if you don't like being lumped in a generalisation then have a word with your remainer friends and remind them that leavers are also all individuals and not a homogenous oneness... WE all voted for different reasons and with different levels of altruism.... it really is horrible being TOLD that if you voted for option A then you must have the traits of a b and c isn't it?
EM2
Established Member
No, it isn't horrible. It just shows a weak argument.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
and yet it is an argument continually used by the Remain camp... ALL leave voters are xenophobic, ALL leavers are jingoistic, ALL leavers are stuck in the past, ALL leavers voted with no thought to anyone else apart from themselves... if it's such a weak argument why do the remain camp continually use generalisation to denigrate the result of the vote?
What I also find amusing is that when a Remain voter makes a generalisation about leavers then it largely goes unchallenged... but dare to make a generalisation about Remainers.... well look what's happened now I've done it... ALL the Remainers jumping up and down shouting "foul"
EM2
Established Member
Again, some of 'the Remain camp'. You don't win an argument by using the same tactics as your opponent.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
no but it don't half wind them up to have the same treatment meted out to them... as all the vitriol I'm getting proves
You're getting it backwards. Nobody is saying ALL leave voters are resists, they're saying ALL the racists voted leave, ALL the xenophobes voted leave and ALL the people wishing for a return to the days of the empire voted leave.
well look what's happened now I've done it... ALL the Remainers jumping up and down shouting "foul"
Again, wrong. They're calling you out because you're complaining about something and then doing it yourself and then trying to say it's ok for you to do it because you think others are doing it.
Not at all, the thrashing around trying to shock and hurt is just a sign of somebody seeing their arguments collapse. It's bit sad to see sometimes but my sympathies are really with those who will suffer if the current fiasco isn't halted soon.no but it don't half wind them up to have the same treatment meted out to them... as all the vitriol I'm getting proves
Just to add to the comments about selfish voting. For the last 30+ years, I have voted for administrations that would not in pure financial terms benefit me the most. I value a fair society much more than my extracting every possible pound of flesh from the system. I don't think I'm alone in St Albans either! Of course, there have always been those who justify their self-serving meanness by claiming that everybody is like that. Fortunately, not everybody sinks to that level.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
Not at all... I have on numerous occasions predicted the course of events since the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe...in this particular case I predicted that the EU would refuse to let us go... as is proved by this so called deal. Why, might you ask, did I vote for something I knew had no hope of succeeding? Simple really... I was hoping that it would open the eyes of the population in general as to the true nature of the EU... unfortunately remainers are so busy saying "I told you so" that they can't see the truth... that we have already lost our sovereignty and democracy... it was taken away from us while we weren't looking years ago.... this is the outcome that the "Bastards" of Major's government were warning about during the Maastricht negotiations and debates....as many of today's Brexiteers are the inheritors of the Bastards baton us Leave supporters could just as much say to remainers "see.. told you so!"
There was a really interesting article in the Guardian today interviewing a Trawler captain from Newlyn. He voted leave but really didn't think his crew being Latvian was going to be a problem going forward as freedom of movement wasn't really an issue. Maybe not all leavers did know what they were voting for and certainly don't agree on what they want. Maybe the captain had just been at sea to long. Bit of both I'd say.
- Status