Penalty Fare After Approaching Collector

dcbwhaley said:

The attendant had not called the police and did not expect me to be detained and fined.

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However, they could legitimately have called the police. In the same way that an authorised collector doesn't have to issue a Penalty Fare but that tool is in the utility belt and can be applied if they believe that it's appropriate, the same as with reporting for prosecution.

najaB said:

However, they could legitimately have called the police. In the same way that an authorised collector doesn't have to issue a Penalty Fare but that tool is in the utility belt and can be applied if they believe that it's appropriate, the same as with reporting for prosecution.

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But in both cases, for someone self-reporting at the earliest opportunity a penalty is not appropriate, as it defies natural justice.

dcbwhaley said:

But in both cases, for someone self-reporting at the earliest opportunity a penalty is not appropriate, as it defies natural justice.

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Indeed.

I'd say that the more stations which do have gates, the easier it is to forget at those which don't. If you habitually use stations with gates, touching in and out is hardly even done consciously. It's pretty much just an automatic reflex as you go through. Because different stations have gates or touch in points in different locations, the absence of something at, say, the street entrance, doesn't necessarily activate your brain to think 'this station doesn't have gates, must remember to look for the touch-in point' because the gates might be halfway along a walkway or at the top of some stairs or the entrance to a platform. And once you've passed that street entrance, your brain similarly isn't necessarily noting that there are no gates at the bottom of the stairs to the platforms, because that wouldn't be unusual.

It's not unusual for me to get to the platform of a station with no gates and then genuinely have no memory of whether I touched in somewhere or not.

The DLR's lack of gates keeps catching me out, as I can never remember for occasional journeys whether the validators are at street level or platform level, not helped with the complexity of the proof of route intermediate ones I don't understand. I suspect this dislike of automated systems is why paper travelcards still sell well, as you can clutch it in your sweaty paw and ignore all the micro-rules.

Regarding the OP... when I do forget to touch in (or simply can't remember if I did) then I just touch out, knowing that I'll simply be charged some kind of maximum fare for an unresolved journey which the onus is on me to get reduced to match the actual journey I made (and I never seem to have a problem doing this).

For that reason it does seem that the staff were a bit unhelpful, and gave bad advice. Unless there's something I don't know about the gates at particular stations.

John Bray said:

The DLR's lack of gates keeps catching me out, as I can never remember for occasional journeys whether the validators are at street level or platform level, not helped with the complexity of the proof of route intermediate ones I don't understand. I suspect this dislike of automated systems is why paper travelcards still sell well, as you can clutch it in your sweaty paw and ignore all the micro-rules.

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I do wish they had a gateline, even if it had no actual gates. Distinct "in" and "out" readers make stuff a lot easier, especially given that the stand-alone readers have those useless LCD displays.

dcbwhaley said:

But in both cases, for someone self-reporting at the earliest opportunity a penalty is not appropriate, as it defies natural justice.

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Try telling HMRC that if you fail to send in a tax return by the deadline. Penalties are there to make people realise there can be consequences to their (in)actions.

snail said:

Try telling HMRC that if you fail to send in a tax return by the deadline. Penalties are there to make people realise there can be consequences to their (in)actions.

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HMRC has one uniform deadline every year though.

Station layouts, whether gates or open points, are different, and it is easy for someone who is just used to going through barriers on autopilot when they come to them to miss the touch in points.

Hardly something that people should 'face consequences' for, to be honest.

snail said:

Try telling HMRC that if you fail to send in a tax return by the deadline. Penalties are there to make people realise there can be consequences to their (in)actions.

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On one occasion I omitted some information from my tax return. When I informed HMRC of the fact, after the deadline, they merely amended my bill.